Should I be worried?

[ramthis9501]

Ok since I got Torque, I did the 0-60 time and got 13.5s... that isn't normal for my truck. Is there something wrong with my engine? The only thing not normal that I can tell with the engine is a vacuum leak but thats it.

 

[ramthis9501]

And what is death flash? I've seen that on a few threads I pulled up on other sites but no one on there would give a clear answer. All it would say is all 01's have it. WTH does that mean?

 

[ramthis9501]

Anyone????

 

[adamwilkes14]

Death Flash (from DF)

The Death Flash

The death flash has to do with a separate issue Chrysler calls "light spark knock under warm conditions" and "under load". They go into good detail describing the conditions that produce this particular ping. It is caused by a timing issue, and it has its own TSB's (depending on year). The death flash was specifically engineered to correct this problem, and this problem only, and its exact use is detailed in the TSB. It corrects the timing advance, so that under warm conditions and load conditions, there is less chance of pinging. This problem existed on trucks right off the factory floor. This is the reason that some trucks in the latter production came out from the factory with the flash already (not to preemptively flash you in case you might get a plenum leak 10 years later). The flash was NOT designed to try to cover up a plenum leak. When you leak oil, you leak oil, and no flash is going to cover that up.



Technical Service Bulletins

The TSB for the plenum leak is 09-05-00.
TSB 09-05-00
This TSB clearly documents symptoms as being heavy spark knock and/or oil consumption. Notice the thorough description of the diagnostics that goes into verifying if a vacuum leak is present due to a failed plenum gasket. Also note that the only fix recommended is the repair of the plenum. Nowhere in this TSB will you find any reference to using an Authorized Software Update (aka the death flash) to fix the plenum issue.

Death Flash Example #1:
TSB 18-004-02
TSB 18-004-02 is for light to moderate spark knock. This is similar symptoms as the plenum, but they are clear to make the distinction that it is light to moderate, whereas the plenum, is heavy spark knock. Also there is no reference to oil consumption or vacuum leaks. The fix in this TSB is the Authorized Software Update. Read the "Diagnosis" section. It specifically states that this TSB will not compensate for heavy spark knock, and directs the mechanic to see TSB 09-05-00 (the Plenum Gasket TSB) if that is the case.

Death Flash Example #2:
TSB 18-006-03
TSB 18-006-03 is for light to moderate spark knock under acceleration. The fix for this TSB is the Authorized Software Update again. Notice again that it states the ONLY symptom is light to moderate spark knock. Nothing else (i.e. heavy knock and/or oil leakage as described in the plenum TSB).

Death Flash Example #3:
TSB 18-24-98
TSB 18-24-98 is another example of light spark knock under warm or load condition. The fix once again is the Authorized Software Update. Nothing to do with the plenum, oil leaks, heavy knock, or vacuum leaks.

So as you can see, the TSB for the plenum leak does not call out anything to do with updating the software. And the ones that do call out a software update specifically point to different (though similar) symptoms (i.e. light to moderate spark knock when warm and under load for the TSB's with the software update versus heavy spark knock and oil consumption for the TSB for the plenum). As I said, different symptoms, different fixes, separate TSB's. The death flash was not created for the plenum fix!!!.

Dealerships and Chrysler

Have dealerships applied it incorrectly when the problem was actually a plenum leak? Sure, probably more times then we would like to know about. But you have to make a distinction between Chrysler and dealerships to understand why this happens. They are not the same. Chrysler is the engineering house and the authority on these matters. They are the ones who write the TSB's and engineer the flashes. They are the ones that know exactly what the issues are and how to fix them. Lots of engineering time goes into the analysis and resolution of the issues before they ever release a TSB. The dealerships on the other hand have no say into any of this, they are basically just garages that just happen to have a license to deal Chrysler products. It is up to them to simply apply the TSB that are handed down from them. So there is very easy chances that they will mis-apply the TSB's though poor/rushed/incomplete diagnosis of the problem, or from simply just not knowing the difference that exist between the TSB's for problems that are similar. Or they might even be just ripping you off, who knows. The point is, this is why it is on us as owners to understand what Chrysler engineers have documented so that we can diagnose for ourselves and so that we ensure that the dealership is doing the right repair.

"Fixing" the Death Flash

If you are adverse to modifying your truck, and want to keep it mostly stock, then yes, you probably should keep the flash. If not, then there are much better ways (in my opinion) to cure the pinging issue that the flash was made for other then retarding timing. First, get a good PCM tune (SCT or B&G) that will boost engine performance and work with mods you have. This is probably the most important one. Second, cool the engine down some (i.e. 180 t-stat, 3923 plugs). Third, improve your ignition with a coil upgrade and/or higher quality cap/rotor and wires. Fourth, use higher octane fuel or octane booster. Lastly, keep your engine in good tune-up at all times. All of these things will help contribute to preventing pinging, and your truck will run better and have more power then if you leave it stock with the death flash in place.

 

[adamwilkes14]

And there is no way I would use your 0-60 times to troubleshoot an engine problem.

 

[ramthis9501]

Wow Adam thanks! Well I think from what I can tell is that the wires were replaced. So should start putting higher octane in my truck? And from what I'm reading, I think it has death flash #2 because I can here a a really light pinging when accelerating. Would it fix that if I got my pcm flashed?

 

[adamwilkes14]

man, I wish I could help ya further but I honestly dont know...

 

[ramthis9501]

Ramsport was the one that originally suggested it, but he never chimed back in on it

 

[Bigtman07]

Ok to clear a few things up. Death flash was a supposed cover up for pinging cause by the blown plenum. But different people have different stories. As far as being a slow or bad 0-60 I do it in about 12 sec. So yea you are a bit slower. IF you happen to hear pinging while at WOT check the plenum gasket. Take the air breather off and open the throttle blades and take a flashlight and look down past the blades of the throttle body. Many of the 2nd gens have a gasket that will blow after so much time. That plenum gasket helps keep oil out of the intake. If that gasket goes away oil will get in the intake and cause some poor performance. Along with burnt oil and poor performance mpg's may suffer.

If you do see oil residue of any kind you should look into getting a new plate and gasket. Dodge didn't think it through when they put a steel plate on an aluminum intake. I will say from experience if you correct the plenum your truck will feel like a whole new truck again.

If ya need help on figuring things out hit me up colton I'd be glad to help ya.

 

[ramthis9501]

Alright thanks alot man, ill do some checking on it later, maybe that's all it is

 

[Bigtman07]

Yea its super common. Total kit with bolts gaskets and other random BS will run ya about 150. I did an aluminum plate frome hughes on mine with new gaskets.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

 

[ramthis9501]

So if the gasket is bad, would air be leaking through that would make it sound like a vacuum leak?

 

[ramthis9501]

Can I not just do a gasket change? It would only run me 12 bucks

 

[Bigtman07]

You can do the gasket change but it won't cure the problem.

Yes it can cause a vacuum leak.

Let me elaborate on the true problem here. You know from school about metals and heat. Well when metal heats up it expands at a certain rate. Every metal expand at it's own rate. Same as cooling. Ok. Well on the bottom of out intakes or keggar's we have a steel plate. Which is a different metal than the intake. The keggar is aluminium and the plate is steel. The aluminum will heat up and cool faster than the steel plate. Therefore the gasket is needed to keep the 2 mated together. Problem is that the gasket will only stretch and move so many times. So yes you can replace the gasket but it will only be temporary until that replaced gasket will fail. That doesn't mean that the gasket will fail tomorrow or next week or a year from now. You never know.

That is why I suggest the whole kit. That will change the plate to aluminum all new gaskets and fix the problem at the source. So that it will hopefully not return. Totally up to you how you want to fix the problem. I would say about 90% assurance that you have a blown plenum. Most people don't even notice. Me on the other hand I was blowing through oil like it was fuel. There is a DIY for it int he DIY Section. I have done it and I think luke has too. So Him or I can help ya through any issues you may encounter.

 

[ramthis9501]

Ok cool thanks, I would do the whole deal now but I just don't have the money to be spending on it right now. Hopefully the new gasket will last me awhile and then I'll replace all of it later on down the road.

 

[wermbang]

Yeah I haven't had the pleasure of doing the plenum fix yet. I just had the DIY lined up in case I did

 

[Bigtman07]

ahhh ok. Sorry Luke thought you had done it. lol

 

[adamwilkes14]

There are some guys on DF who are making the plates and selling them cheaper than the Hughes Kits...look over there.

 

[dodgeram07]

man do the plenum and a sct tune form hemifever and you will **** ur self

 

[ramthis9501]

I'll notice a difference just with the gasket change for now right?