Speaker upgrade

[Atcer2018]

For all those folks looking for plug and play speaker upgrades Mopar Performance/Kicker sells upgrade packages that are plug and play ready with exact fit and factory connections. I’ve personally used this line which is a mid level Kicker speaker to upgrade all six speakers in my Ram 1500. They consist of two way rear 6x9 and two mid woofer 6x9 for the front doors with 1 inch dome tweeters for the dash. The tweets have the cutoff caps already installed. The sonic improvement is huge! The front mid woofers hit hard and the dome tweets are not over powering with the factory caps. As others have posted here it’s a great idea to dynamat the doors when you have the panels off. I used the cheapo Amazon dynamat knockoff at less than a quarter of real dynamat price. If you really like your music loud I’ve found the Kicker Key200 amp with a NetAudio T-harness an easy addition with no splicing of the factory wiring involved. None of your factory functions change and no additional parts or components are needed aside from running a dedicated power line through the firewall to the battery. The Key amp has an auto shutoff when the vehicle powers down and even using high level speaker inputs causes no noise, pops or distortion. If you aren’t going to go all high end aftermarket the Kicker Amp and speakers retain all factory look and function for about 600 bucks. It thumps pretty good and is an easy install for DYIers with little expertise in car audio.

 

[JoeSee]

Atcer2018 I looked at the Mopar offering before. Did you keep these speakers with your amp mod? Appears that 1500 and 2500 require different part numbers. No mention of Kicker but may have to dig. Do the Mopar speakers work with the ANC?

You and GWillings mentioned NetAudio. When I search for that name I get a place in Wichita Falls, is that it?

maniscody asked how to get speakers louder and also mentioned 40% volume reduction when replacing speakers? I too don't understand this problem. If you bypass the ANC why does this still affect door speaker replacement? What, is the 8.4 LED radio a 5watt radio? Is the ANC an amp beside being noise control? Without schematics I can't answer this.

Last question Alter2018, where did you bring the power through the firewall? And then, maybe a little more info on where you placed everything in your cab. I see some put the PAC item behind the radio. Looks pretty clean.

 

[themaniscody]

Kicker key200 Amp + Netaudio harness + full 6 speaker swap would boost noise level? No other parts needed?

 

[Atcer2018]

Atcer2018 I looked at the Mopar offering before. Did you keep these speakers with your amp mod? Appears that 1500 and 2500 require different part numbers. No mention of Kicker but may have to dig. Do the Mopar speakers work with the ANC?

My apologies I was speaking in reference to the OP who appears to have a 1500 in their profile. As for the Mopar Performance/Kicker speaker packages fitting in a 2500 I have no clue. You’d have to cross check with a Mopar/Ram parts guy. I know there is a member on this forum that is a Parts Manager for a dealership, I believe his name is Bennie.

You and GWillings mentioned NetAudio. When I search for that name I get a place in Wichita Falls, is that it?

Yes NetAudio is in Wichita Falls, TX and they sell custom made T-Harnesses for Ram radio installs. Ask for Paul Morgan, he is familiar with our trucks.

maniscody asked how to get speakers louder and also mentioned 40% volume reduction when replacing speakers? I too don't understand this problem. If you bypass the ANC why does this still affect door speaker replacement? What, is the 8.4 LED radio a 5watt radio? Is the ANC an amp beside being noise control? Without schematics I can't answer this.

Several things to unpack here. ANC is Automatic Noise Canceling. I’m a novice with car audio so my best explanation is it’s an active feature of the audio system to roll off certain octaves of the audio system to compensate for interior noise in the cabin. Therefore if you run a high volume system the ANC mistakes it for noise and rolls back the sound. Ram didn’t start using ANC until the 2019 model year and there are multiple site on the web where you can find out how to disable it. I have a 2018 so I escaped the ANC issue.

I think what the other poster was trying to say with the 40% reduction had to do with the resistance of the factory speakers versus aftermarket. If I remember correctly the old speakers were 4 ohm speakers so if you go with a 6 or 8 ohm aftermarket speaker you’ll have less volume at a given power output. Some aftermarket speakers are 2 ohms so they will sound louder than a 4 ohm at the same power output.
OR
ANC may reduce the volume level by 40% if it’s not disabled.

I’ve never seen actual power ratings for the 8.4 radio but the few articles I’ve read the writers speculated power output to be about 15 watts per channel. This is why I went with the Kicker Key amp.

Last question Alter2018, where did you bring the power through the firewall? And then, maybe a little more info on where you placed everything in your cab. I see some put the PAC item behind the radio. Looks pretty clean.

I ran the power through the plastic block off blank on the driver side firewall. If you open the hood and look under the master cylinder you’ll see a diamond shape plastic plate held on the firewall by two pan head sheet metal screws. I removed that plate, drilled a hole in it to accommodate the power wire and after running the wire through I used silicone to weather proof it. The plate is just a blocking plate and isn’t used for anything but it does lead into the cabin just above the brake pedal. You can use a brake pedal mounting bolt for the ground wire.
I mounted the Key amp on a piece of 1X4 pine then used two small L brackets and mounted the wood platform on the side of the parking brake release bracket. The Key amp is small and there are plenty of places to mount it.
I’m not sure what you are referring to with the PAC item.

 

[Atcer2018]

Kicker key200 Amp + Netaudio harness + full 6 speaker swap would boost noise level? No other parts needed?

It will boost the loudness of your system without introducing noise. By noise I mean, pops, cracks, hiss because of incompatibility between components not noise as in distortion because the volume is cranked full blast and the amp is clipping. I have the upgraded speakers front/dash and rear, T-harness, Key amp, short piece of 10 gauge wire for the amp ground, about 7 feet of 10 gauge wire for power, a 20 amp inline fuse and about 5 feet of cable holding four strands of 12/2 speaker wire to connect the amp to the T-harness. That’s it, I have a 2018 so I don’t have ANC to bypass.

 

[JoeSee]

Atcer2018 nice write up and thank you. It's possible themaniscody meant sound level, not noise noise. Paul Morgan from NETAudio wrote me back today and told me what to get. My truck has the ANC under the dash. Seems I remember someone in another forum saying once bypassed they removed the under dash ANC and mounted their amp in its place. Sounds reasonable. I asked about the Kicker Key200.4 and sub out and Paul said they'd have to add that to the harness since the key doesn't have a sub out. He questioned their logic on that one. I wrote back and asked him for amp suggestions beside key amp. I looked at GWillings setup and those amps, at least the main one was close to $600. Sure it's mighty nice but beyond my pocket.

So for the sake of Dave Haddon maybe Dave you should look into the Mopar speakers before buying the Pioneers. This is if you don't want to do this amp stuff. I found this and it says it fits your Warlock https://store.mopar.com/oem-parts/mopar-speakers-82215415. I'd call and ask if ANC is a problem. If it's not a problem then I'm still baffled why this works and other aftermarkets don't. Looks like Mopar site doesn't take phone calls, have to fill out their contact form. Still worth doing. They have install instructions at the bottom of the page that will be helpful regardless of speakers you buy.

Atcer2018, did you have to run separate wires from your front door speakers to your dash speakers? Did you have NETAudio add the sub out to your harness?

I'm seeing now if I run a hot wire through the firewall, hook a ground to a brake peddle bolt, bypass the ANC, remove ANC box and adapt the Kicker Key200.4 amp in it's place then hook it up to the NETAudio harness that's it? No preamp control needed? If so that's sounds easier and cleaner than any upgrade like this I've ever done.

 

[IDSandman]

The kicker key 200.4 doesn’t have a sub out as it’s not a subwoofer mono style amp nor does it have enough power. The correct kicker key amp for a subwoofer application is the Key500.1. Yes your system will have two amps, yes it is ideal. Yes it will absolutely crank! Run the dash and front doors off the Key200.1 in bi-amp. Run NEW speaker wires to the dash speakers. Run the rear doors off the stock head unit.
Tap the rear speaker wires for the Key 500.1. Wire sub/s to the Key 500. ROCK OUT!!

 

[JoeSee]

IDSandman, thankyou, I anticipated the Key 500.1 should I go with a sub. NETAudio said an extra signal path is added to the harness for that. Sub maybe next year but didn't want to leave out the ability to add it. It's possible I'll never pursue it. Lot of other toys pulling my time. Music studio for one.

I'm intrigued by your front system. I can see bi-amp has it's advantages for a front sound stage. With my dash speaker rewire I'm fully content with the stock setup. It's much louder now. So if I keep the key200.4 as a 4 channel I suspect I'll be even more content. I wish to keep the back doors like the front with 4 of the same speaker types. I'm curious, if you bypass the ANC how are you able to run the back door speakers with the head unit?

The open question I asked is do you need any other component, preamp, to access control over the key200.4 or is the harness and amp all you need. Thank you all.

 

[IDSandman]

2018 1500 so no ANC nonsense for me.
Net audio harness is all you need.
Not sure what you mean by “control over the key”?

 

[Atcer2018]

JoeSee, a few things for you. Paul is a big advocate of adding line resistors to the wiring harness so the head unit “sees” a load on the line. I did not get my harness with the load resistors as Kicker assured me the Key amp would provide the needed load. Paul disagreed but Kicker was correct, I had no problems with the amp and head unit. It will save you some coin without the load resistors.

Your head unit functions as the de facto preamp.

I did not bi-amp my front speakers. I elected to keep everything set up as it was factory. I run the left and right front mid woofers and tweeters as one speaker each on their own channel and the rears on their own channels. I was too lazy to do the bi-amp wiring. When using the Key DSP correction function it does still have a small effect on the soundstage the way I have my setup wired. Maybe some day if I’m bored I’ll try the bi-amp method.

I did not install a sub. The front 6X9 mid woofers pack a tight bass but do not reach very low where you feel it. For me the sound is clean and I’m satisfied with it.

The bad news is I searched the 77Kick28 system for the front of our Rams that has the 6X9 mid woofers and separate soft dome tweeters and it has been discontinued. It looks like y’all have to go aftermarket now.

 

[JoeSee]

Atcer2018 you're helping me a lot. For now all I want to do is get the stuff in place. I purchased the Infinity Ref 6x9 3ways for all for doors, all same speakers. I just want the basics as you for now.

Follow me again. I get NETAudio harness. Get a Kicker key200.4 amp. If I use just these two items beside wires and such, will I be able to hook this up and get sound out of the dash, front and back doors just like stock? Do the dash speakers stay with the fronts with this setup? Still hooked together. Am I missing something?

 

[Dave Haddon]

Hmm ...too late ( advice from Crutchfield rep with all my situation) she advised to get the Pioneer 6x9's for the front doors and dash ( enroute as we speak )..I will see how that works and go from there..Thanks JoeSee
Now to put sound deadener in the door panels..ohh such fun for us old guys that aren't as nimble or coordinated as you youngster..LOL

 

[Atcer2018]

Atcer2018 you're helping me a lot. For now all I want to do is get the stuff in place. I purchased the Infinity Ref 6x9 3ways for all for doors, all same speakers. I just want the basics as you for now.

Follow me again. I get NETAudio harness. Get a Kicker key200.4 amp. If I use just these two items beside wires and such, will I be able to hook this up and get sound out of the dash, front and back doors just like stock? Do the dash speakers stay with the fronts with this setup? Still hooked together. Am I missing something?

In a nutshell yes you will get sound out of the front and back speakers with your proposed setup. Here is your biggest pitfall, those front dash speakers. Right now as stock all the speakers are full range speakers. By putting 3 ways in the front doors you’ll be putting out the high frequencies from the door tweeters pointing at your ankles. High frequency is very directional and it sets your soundstage. The rear door speakers are used as “fill” speakers but the front speakers are what your ear cues in on. By having tweeters in the front doors you will muddy everything even if you keep the stock factory full range speakers in the dash. Imagine being at a live concert listening to the cymbals on a drum set. Your ear focuses on where that high sound comes from and your brain knows it’s coming from the drum set up on the stage. Now imagine sitting in a big a$$ Ram with a large cabin and you hear those cymbals coming from both the dash where the drum set would be in a concert and at the same time hearing them coming from both sides of you but lower to the ground. It is a noticeable sonic mess! Ask someone familiar with car audio if they would recommend tweeters in the dash or C pillars AND tweeters in the door? It’s messed up and I can tell you first hand because my daughter has a civic EXL with the Honda factory tweeters in the front pillars and she has 3 way Rockford Fosgates in her front doors and it sounds like dog poo. You have to disconnect the dash speakers to avoid this because you can’t turn off the tweets in the 3 ways. Additionally if you disconnect the dash speakers the tweets in the doors will be well below a normal soundstage and I’m not sure the Key amp DSP can rectify that. This is why the Mopar performance/Kicker upgrade 77Kick28 was such a successful and good sounding upgrade. It used dedicated tweeters in the dash keeping a natural soundstage and used mid woofers to handle lower less directional frequencies in the front doors all while using pre installed capacitors to block low freqs to the tweets and high freqs to the doors. Personally I wouldn’t put coaxial speakers in the front doors but would seek out components similar to the original 77Kick28. That’s just my opinion. I’m a novice at car audio and hopefully other more knowledgeable people will chime in with information for you.

You also have to disconnect the ANC from what I’ve read.

 

[Atcer2018]

Atcer2018 you're helping me a lot. For now all I want to do is get the stuff in place. I purchased the Infinity Ref 6x9 3ways for all for doors, all same speakers. I just want the basics as you for now.

Follow me again. I get NETAudio harness. Get a Kicker key200.4 amp. If I use just these two items beside wires and such, will I be able to hook this up and get sound out of the dash, front and back doors just like stock? Do the dash speakers stay with the fronts with this setup? Still hooked together. Am I missing something?

So I went to Crutchfield website and looked around at speakers. They have very few component systems that offer dedicated woofers for the doors of our trucks and tweeters for the dash that would replicate the 77kick28 system. Unfortunately Infinity had zero offerings which is sad cuz I love the smooth sound of Infinity tweeters. I did see that Kicker offers the 48kss269. According to Kickers website this system was designed for certain Ram, Chevy and Volvo vehicles. It offers a dedicated 6X9 woofer for the front doors and a mid/tweeter for the dash. It also has inline caps to block certain frequencies to the various speakers acting as a passive crossover. I’m not a Kicker fanboy by any means and until I put them in my Ram had never even heard them. I’m sure there are better speakers out there but it does appear that Kicker integrates well with the Ram trucks. Even the dash speakers fit without cutting. The KS line looks like it’s positioned just below their premium line and better than their entry level and value lines. Also when choosing car speakers with lower power amps sensitivity ratings matter. I see that a lot of components on Crutchfield have low sensitivity ratings like the Pioneers are 84 which will require more amp power to reach the same volume as the Kickers at a sensitivity rating of 92.

 

[Atcer2018]

Hmm ...too late ( advice from Crutchfield rep with all my situation) she advised to get the Pioneer 6x9's for the front doors and dash ( enroute as we speak )..I will see how that works and go from there..Thanks JoeSee
Now to put sound deadener in the door panels..ohh such fun for us old guys that aren't as nimble or coordinated as you youngster..LOL

Old guy here and I can tell you from experience that the entire door panel doesn’t need to be sound deadened. When I did mine I removed the door panels, unstuck that vapor barrier with the nasty black tar stuff on it, taped it up out of the way and then proceeded to install the sound deadening material in strips that I could fit through the interior door cavities. It isn’t pretty and not how a pro would do it but it does work. Even though I don’t have 100% coverage the 60-70% coverage I do have made a big noticeable difference.

 

[JoeSee]

Atcer2018 I appreciate your recommendations, actually everyone's feedback. I purchased the Infinity's because they're unique. The midrange and tweeter portion of the 3 way speaker actually point up toward you at an angle. They're different. Never seen ones like this. Follow my logic on this and in no way am I not considering your recommendations.

As you know I've made a major improvement modifying the aftermarket dash speakers by making them 8ohm and full range with the 100hz cutoff. Unless anyone tries this I'm just typing in the wind. The front soundstage changes dramatically. Front gets big. Guitar leads, vocals, horns not brash but sweet and smooth. "In your face" change because this puts more power in the midrange that's just not there out of the box. They sound like tweeters out of the box at 4ohms and 8K crossover. 8K, seriously? Look at the chart if you don't believe me. Bringing all of the sound out of the dash opens up the next step.

I did buy some different caps to tailor the crossover to a more protective 150hz, something I discussed with a Crutchfield tech. I'm changing the 270uf cap to 125uf. Anyone interested here's a nifty chart for crossover values and Impedance of the speakers, scroll down the page. https://www.sonicelectronix.com/item-17962-The-Install-Bay-BB99.html If you look at the chart and see where the 8k crossover is that's how much sound is lost in the stock aftermarket configuration. I put all that back. One other thing I noticed for some reason the front door stock speakers got better. My pant legs move now from the bass. This is using the stock system. Maybe a bit more current is being pushed to the doors with this new dash speaker scheme.

The next step with this huge dash improvement my intent is to put some more mid to high sound up and in front of me from the doors. With the full sound dash combined with the up firing door speakers blowing into it, it's the only way I can add more sound in the front of me, not just bass, no other way. I believe the mids and high will connect together with the dash this way. Maybe with the just the tin of tweeters like you all have this wouldn't be such a good idea, very noticeable. I can always put foam over the parts that don't work.

Also, having played for 35years on stage in a band I'm a little less disturbed by less than perfect sound positioning. It's a truck, low on my list. I may not notice it because I'm more used to being enveloped than sitting facing the music. I do know a little about sound, I have a sound studio and 40 years working in electronics. No Dave Haddon, I'm older than you.

Thank you all. NETAudio has contacted me with the rest I need. I'm going to put the key200.4 in first with the stock speakers and my new dash speaker. Play around with it. I'll make my door decisions then. Got a new Stratocaster in the mail yesterday so gonna be busy. Seeya for awhile until I post pictures of the Faital dash speaker and also a final configuration for those that want to do the dash speaker mod. Keep in mind that mod works with any brand similar speakers. I bought standard resistors to help you all see the layout without my smaller resistor I used. Less words more pictures. See ya soon Atcer2018 and let's keep talking. You've been great.

 

[Dave Haddon]

Get outta here JoeSee. BTW..Back in the day ( yikes 56 yrs ago)I played drums for The Devrons in Wpg..had I stayed with them and not gone the sports route..they became Chad Allan and The Expressions ( Shaking All Over )..missed the boat on that one..LOL..Yep when you get all the stuff together I will bug you for info on doing an Amp and the other electronic pieces that go with it. For now just chill and save a few bucks. Stay Well ...and all of you guys who chimed in thanks for the insight...Kojak!

 

[Atcer2018]

Atcer2018 I appreciate your recommendations, actually everyone's feedback. I purchased the Infinity's because they're unique. The midrange and tweeter portion of the 3 way speaker actually point up toward you at an angle. They're different. Never seen ones like this. Follow my logic on this and in no way am I not considering your recommendations.

As you know I've made a major improvement modifying the aftermarket dash speakers by making them 8ohm and full range with the 100hz cutoff. Unless anyone tries this I'm just typing in the wind. The front soundstage changes dramatically. Front gets big. Guitar leads, vocals, horns not brash but sweet and smooth. "In your face" change because this puts more power in the midrange that's just not there out of the box. They sound like tweeters out of the box at 4ohms and 8K crossover. 8K, seriously? Look at the chart if you don't believe me. Bringing all of the sound out of the dash opens up the next step.

I did buy some different caps to tailor the crossover to a more protective 150hz, something I discussed with a Crutchfield tech. I'm changing the 270uf cap to 125uf. Anyone interested here's a nifty chart for crossover values and Impedance of the speakers, scroll down the page. https://www.sonicelectronix.com/item-17962-The-Install-Bay-BB99.html If you look at the chart and see where the 8k crossover is that's how much sound is lost in the stock aftermarket configuration. I put all that back. One other thing I noticed for some reason the front door stock speakers got better. My pant legs move now from the bass. This is using the stock system. Maybe a bit more current is being pushed to the doors with this new dash speaker scheme.

The next step with this huge dash improvement my intent is to put some more mid to high sound up and in front of me from the doors. With the full sound dash combined with the up firing door speakers blowing into it, it's the only way I can add more sound in the front of me, not just bass, no other way. I believe the mids and high will connect together with the dash this way. Maybe with the just the tin of tweeters like you all have this wouldn't be such a good idea, very noticeable. I can always put foam over the parts that don't work.

Also, having played for 35years on stage in a band I'm a little less disturbed by less than perfect sound positioning. It's a truck, low on my list. I may not notice it because I'm more used to being enveloped than sitting facing the music. I do know a little about sound, I have a sound studio and 40 years working in electronics. No Dave Haddon, I'm older than you.

Thank you all. NETAudio has contacted me with the rest I need. I'm going to put the key200.4 in first with the stock speakers and my new dash speaker. Play around with it. I'll make my door decisions then. Got a new Stratocaster in the mail yesterday so gonna be busy. Seeya for awhile until I post pictures of the Faital dash speaker and also a final configuration for those that want to do the dash speaker mod. Keep in mind that mod works with any brand similar speakers. I bought standard resistors to help you all see the layout without my smaller resistor I used. Less words more pictures. See ya soon Atcer2018 and let's keep talking. You've been great.

Well damn here I assumed you were 25, looking to clip the amp and add two 15 inch subs! Lol
Sounds like you have a good plan and a handle on the mods. I’m curious to see pics of this front speaker setup when you’re finished.
I don’t play guitar but I know enough people who do that the new Stratocaster will take up a few hours of your time. I’m sure it’s already played the intro to Stairway to Heaven. Lol

 

[JoeSee]

Typical Rock Star, that's it, last tour. I'm back.

Here's the Faital 3FE22 8ohm speaker evaluation as an option for the stock dash speaker replacement. This is an 8ohm speaker, not the usual 4ohm we're all stuck with. Again, complete stock radio configuration, no mods to radio system. My earlier post was the Infinity Ref 3032Cfx, a hard speaker to beat but requires mods.

I started out backwards. I added a crossover/bass blocker using a 125uf capacitor in series to the positive terminal. Unfortunately I only had 100v version so the size is bigger than necessary, 50v better, but can't stop progress. I figured if modding the Infinity produced spectacular results I'd try it on this speaker as well. Note this speaker doesn't need a resistor to make it 8ohms, it already is.

You have to modify this speaker to make it fit. It's just a little bit smaller than others but motor is same as stock but way better built. The screw mounting hole centers are off about half the diameter of the mounting screw. You have to notch open the speaker mounting tabs. That's shown in Faital 1 picture. Also, one of the tabs gets in the way but tin snips fixes that easy. I had no problem tightening the speaker down. Enough of the screw head covers the tab to not be a problem. Less than 0.050 inch of the slot opening shows under the screw head. Speakers come with foam already on the back.

How did it sound? First impression for this 8ohm stock matching speaker, LOUD. You'd think it was 4ohm. It had me reaching for the audio settings immediately. Faded back first, then moved all settings except bass to center flat position. I couldn't hear the door speakers, just the bass from them. Front dash took over everything. Once tamed down and faded back to center I tried everything to get some bass/lows into the midrange and high but no luck, all tinny. Figured since this is a full range speaker rated at 40 watts It didn't need the crossover. I disconnected it and put a new harness on the speaker. Now it's wired flat out stock. Take it out of the box and put a harness on it and install, stock.

Second impression a little bit better. However, this speaker is just going to be very midrange tin with tweeter highs not too bad. Is it better than the stock speaker, you bet, much better. For someone looking to change out the dash speakers while leaving the system stock this will work. Notch out two tabs and cut another off.

It makes badly mixed songs sound bad. It makes properly mixed music sound fine with an edge of sharp midrange. Tolerable but midrange a killer for me. I don't know if the speakers would smooth out with some break in.

Would I use it, no. Sticking with the Infinity. The Infinity's silky smoothness of the mids and refined highs is too hard to beat. No Atcer2018, I did not play Stairway to Heaven.

 

[Atcer2018]

JoeSee, sorry the mod didn’t work out as planned. Thank you for experimenting so we don’t have to go through that. Is that a corner dash speaker or the one in the middle of the dash on a high end model truck? When you ran the speaker without the cap did it distort at higher volume trying to reproduce freqs it can’t make? What route are you going to go now?