Starts and dies

[Zach Carlson]

Need help. Running a 2013 ram 1500 sport 5.7. Had lifter failure due to MDS so I replaced the cam with a TSP stage 2 cam, lifters, pushrods, and springs. Timing is good as I checked it 5-6 times before reassembly. New cam position sensor, new vvt solenoid, have fuel pressure, spark, and 125 psi compression across the board.

It will start, Rev to 1800 or so, then die. If I immediately try to start again, it just cranks. After sitting a few hours it will start, Rev, and die again. I'm at a loss as to what it could be.

There is a base tune on it to accommodate the new cam. Once I get it running it can be fine tuned.

Any ideas or things to look at that I could be missing. Thanks in advance for any insight.

 

[Ashkon]

Are you able to connect a scanner to it?

 

[Zach Carlson]

Yes. No codes at all. Wish it had one to throw me in the right direction.

 

[Lyle Longboat]

Just throwing things out there, fuel pump relay, key fob (chip), mass air flow sensor, idk what else you could check. Did you have this issue before the cam swap? If not, then something to do with the swap would be the issue.
Crankshaft sensor?
Forgot that one.

 

[Fast69Mopar]

Yes. No codes at all. Wish it had one to throw me in the right direction.

If you have a scan tool, what is the cam crank difference?

When it starts the cam and crank signals change from "out of sync" to "in sync". Have you monitored both cam and crank signals to make sure you are not losing one of the signals when it dies?

Is the fuel pump still running when it dies? When it will not restart you should be able to hear the pump running.

When you start the engine is it revving to 1800rpm by itself? Have you checked for a large vacuum leak?

Have you tried loading the stock tune to see if it will idle?

 

[Zach Carlson]

I have eliminated the key fob as the issue. I have not swapped crank sensor yet. It did not start with stock tune either so I had a guy tune it for the cam, just a base one to get it running. As far as fuel pump relay goes, all I can find are fuses. No relay. Those are good also. I have a basic diablosport predator 2 tuner so I'm not sure how to monitor the cam and crank as that happens. The tune on it now was installed at shop. Everything ran fine aside from the misfire due to worn camshaft. Was able to drive perfect under 4k RPM. I'm about to disconnect one coil pack at a time tontry and eliminate those as an issue.

 

[Fast69Mopar]

I have eliminated the key fob as the issue. I have not swapped crank sensor yet. It did not start with stock tune either so I had a guy tune it for the cam, just a base one to get it running. As far as fuel pump relay goes, all I can find are fuses. No relay. Those are good also. I have a basic diablosport predator 2 tuner so I'm not sure how to monitor the cam and crank as that happens. The tune on it now was installed at shop. Everything ran fine aside from the misfire due to worn camshaft. Was able to drive perfect under 4k RPM. I'm about to disconnect one coil pack at a time to try and eliminate those as an issue.

I just realized that the camshaft you installed is the same camshaft that I installed in two of my customers trucks a couple of months ago and both trucks would start and idle with the stock tune. You should pull the rocker covers and watch the pushrods and the valves and see if the valves are not closing because I bet that is the case. It really depends on the pushrods that you used in this motor.

Did you use pushrods from TSP that were in a kit or something? I have seen this issue too many times where the pushrods are too long and keeping the valves open and the engine will start and die. Have you tried to keep the engine running while using the accelerator pedal?

To verify that the intake or exhaust valves are not closing properly you can put the cylinder at
TDC or Top Dead Center and apply air pressure into the cylinder through the spark plug hole like you were performing a compressing check or leakdown test. If you hear air escaping through the intake or out of the exhaust then you know the valves are not on their seats.

 

[Zach Carlson]

I did use the push rods from their kit they offer. No auto store near me has a leak down test tool, just comprssion.

When I hold the gas to the floor it starts sputtering like it wants to take off but doesn't.

I will go buy a leak down tester and see if that's the case. TSP told me that that wouldn't be an issue with these push rods they gave me, but mistakes happen.

I appreciate all the help and I will update once I can do the leak down test.

 

[Zach Carlson]

So did a leak down test. Driver side averaged 25% across the board. Heard leaking from oil fill cap, but was super faint. Nothing from throttle body or exhausy.

Passenger side.....50-60% leaking from both intake and exhaust valves.

I made sure each cylinder was top dead center before each tested. Tested each cylinder 3 times and came up with same results.

That tells me the push rods should be correct given the driver side valves sealed up. Or am I wrong for assuming that?

I am about to start my own research but maybe you can shed light on it. What would cause both valve to be open while at top dead center only on bank 2?

Would timing being off only affect the one bank like that? Or am I barking up the wrong tree?

Thanks again for all the help.

 

[Fast69Mopar]

I did use the push rods from their kit they offer. No auto store near me has a leak down test tool, just comprssion.

When I hold the gas to the floor it starts sputtering like it wants to take off but doesn't.

I will go buy a leak down tester and see if that's the case. TSP told me that that wouldn't be an issue with these push rods they gave me, but mistakes happen.

I appreciate all the help and I will update once I can do the leak down test.

You really dont need a leakdown test to detrmine if the valves are not all the way on the seat when closed. If you have a compression tester you can take the valve core out of the end and apply air pressure with an air hose. You dont need much air pressure either

 

[Zach Carlson]

What would cause cylinders 2,4,6,8 valves to not close at TDC? Leaking around intake and exhaust valves on all cylinders on passenger side. It leaks around all valves on either exhaust or compression stroke. Doesn't matter.

I ripped the valve cover back off to verify everything was seated properly and everything looked good.

The heads have been gone thru with new seals put in and resurfaced.

I'll keep digging and appreciate any other ideas as to what could cause this issue.

 

[Zach Carlson]

Update: Got it to start. My lifters on bank 2 weren't plunging properly. Took em out and worked them a little and reinstalled. Truck started and ran really well for several minutes. Then stalled out.

Pulled p0016 code. Crank/cam misaligned and a couple vacuum codes.

Fixed vacuum hoses and cleared codes.

Started again and runs for a several seconds. 10-15 and sounds good but then stalls out again.

Still digging into that but making progress. Thanks again for all the help and getting me in the right direction.

 

[GTyankee]

What causes the P0016 code?

• The camshaft timing is out of position due to the timing chain jumped teeth.
  
  
• The camshaft phaser is out of position due to problems with phaser.
  
  
• The oil has flow to the phaser is impeded from having an incorrect oil viscosity or partly clogged passages.
  
  
• The Oil Control Valve (OCV) has a restriction in the OCV filter.
  .............................................

What repairs can fix the P0016 code?

• Resetting the fault codes and performing a road test
• Replacing the camshaft sensor on bank 1
• Repairing the wiring or connection to the camshaft OCV or camshaft sensor
• Replacing the camshaft OCV for bank 1 exhaust camshaft
• Replacing the timing chain and guides

 

[GTyankee]

This mechanic knows all about the 5.7L & your problem

 

[Zach Carlson]

Thanks for the info on that. I cleared the codes and ran it again. Codes didn't pop back up again. Runs great cold but stalls after I start getting temp. Need to go thru and verify I have no vacuum leaks. I believe that's what's stalling it out.

I appreciate all the help and insight. You all were a HUGE help.