TCW3 (2 Stroke Oil) in Gasoline?

[heefageLA]

Im interested in the wizards' opinions around here if this still an accepted practice. I recently got my first 6.4L and have found out that the engine is very different than the 5.7Ls im familiar with.

Im a true believer in using TCW3, 1oz. / 5gal. ratio, in small engines. I found that using that same ratio in my 5.7L was a bit too rich and went down to 1oz. / 6gal. and that made the ratio perfect.

Ive been using this additive for many years now with great success. I can go months on end with fuel being in my jeep, mower, 4-wheelers, generator, etc... and have never had an issue with the engines starting immediately and running great.

Id like to know your thoughts on this.
Also, would the additive raise or lower the octane rating? My 6.4L calls for 87 octane. If TCW3 lowers my octane I would purchase 89 to offset that. If it raises the octane I would maybe dilute the ratio further to try and stay at 87.

Any Google search of, TCW3 in Gasoline, will bring numerous articles discussing this practice.

Thanks for the advice, you wizards of truck life blood.

 

[chopperman1]

Curious as to why a 2-stroke oil vs using a fuel stabilizer? I use Stabil Marine 360 in all my small engines year round. Treat the gas as I buy it with it.

 

[heefageLA]

Curious as to why a 2-stroke oil vs using a fuel stabilizer? I use Stabil Marine 360 in all my small engines year round. Treat the gas as I buy it with it.

From what ive read it lubricates the fuel system and upper cylinders, cleans the injectors, removes water from the gas, treats/stabilizes the ethanol, among other things.
Im not interested in advancing or retarding ignition, but I would like to know if the additive does one or the other.

I like using it because I can buy a Gal. jug for about $25-$35 thats lasts a long time. Rather than buying little bottles of fuel stabilizer for $3-$6 each. A gallon of Sta-bil costs $50+.

 

[Dean2]

Two stroke oil is a lubricant, that part is accurate. As far as all the other claims about water, ethanol, pure hogwash. You are mixing at 128/1, a lot of the latest 2 strokes have variable mix ratios that run from 50/1 at WOT to over the 200 to 1 range at idle, though most don't run it below 100/1.

For fuel stabilization I suggest a proper fuel stabilizer/cleaner. As far as lubing the rest of the fuel system, never done it on any vehicle, many ran over 300,000 miles. Don't think that little bit of oil will hurt anything, my concern would be the extra carbon on combustion, but if it makes you feel better, I have heard of guys doing way worse. Recent post on here a guy was adding gas to his diesel, now that WILL cause problems..

 

[heefageLA]

Two stroke oil is a lubricant, that part is accurate. As far as all the other claims about water, ethanol, pure hogwash. You are mixing at 128/1, a lot of the latest 2 strokes have variable mix ratios that run from 50/1 at WOT to over the 200 to 1 range at idle, though most don't run it below 100/1.

For fuel stabilization I suggest a proper fuel stabilizer/cleaner. As far as lubing the rest of the fuel system, never done it on any vehicle, many ran over 300,000 miles. Don't think that little bit of oil will hurt anything, my concern would be the extra carbon on combustion, but if it makes you feel better, I have heard of guys doing way worse. Recent post on here a guy was adding gas to his diesel, now that WILL cause problems..

I get that some of this is "warm fuzzies", but ive personally seen the benefits in small engines. I have an '05 Honda Foreman that would give me constant trouble starting and running. When I started using this mixture all the troubles went away. Maybe the carb was just gunked up and it helped release the trash, I dont know. Every 4-stroke engine I own has TCW3 in the tank. Some engines have been running it for over 10 years.
I was worried about clogging the catalytic convertors when I first started using it, but with running my (2) previous 5.7L for over 100k miles they operated fine.

The "gas in diesel" thread is what got me thinking to bring this witch's brew back up again. The TCW3 is specific to liquid cooled 2-strokes as well. For some reason the internet calls for that specific certification.

And im not so quick to discredit the stabilization part. I mean, if the mixture is meant for a marine environment why wouldnt it help trap moisture in fuel?
Heres what Pennzoil Marine Premium Plus TCW3 claims.

• Specially designed for exceptional performance in marine applications
• Formulated with an extra level of performance additives to protect outboard engines under the most severe operating conditions
• Only contains ashless components that helps prevent any lubricant-related preignition and spark plug fouling
• Helps protect against piston scuffing, ring sticking, and combustion chamber deposits, rust, and corrosion.
• It's anti-gel properties help resist gel formation due to water or other contamination

 

[Dean2]

Well then, if you personal experience is that wide, long lived and successful, keep on keeping on.

 

[chopperman1]

Stabil Marine 360 checks all of the boxes including stabilization of the fuel which TCW3 does not.

It's dosing is 1oz per 10 gallon, vs 1oz per 5gallon for TCW3 so it offsets the price difference by 50%.

1 32oz bottle of Stabil Marine 360 for 20$ treats 320 gallons, .06c per gallon of fuel.

1 gallon of TCW3 for 35$ treats 640 gallons, .05c per gallon of fuel.

STA-BIL 360° Marine Fuel Stabilizer (3 Sizes)

Specially formulated for use in harsh marine environments, STA-BIL® Marine offsets the effects of moisture in today’s ethanol-blended fuels and protects marine engines all-year round, including periods of storage. PREVENT ETHANOL DAMAGE: Protect your entire fuel system against damaging rust and...

www.sta-bil.co.uk

Specially formulated for use in harsh marine environments, STA-BIL® Marine offsets the effects of moisture in today’s ethanol-blended fuels and protects marine engines all-year round, including periods of storage.

PREVENT ETHANOL DAMAGE: Protect your entire fuel system against damaging rust and corrosion caused by moisture and ethanol fuels. Provides a protective coating on ALL the metal parts of the entire fuel system and combustion chamber, even when the engine is not running.

INCREASE POWER: Strip away carbon build-up, gum and varnish that can inhibit engine performance, and get the most out of your fuel by burning it more completely. Bring back the power your engine once knew. Clear and prevent harmful gum, varnish and build-up throughout the combustion chamber and injectors.

MAXIMISE FUEL ECONOMY: Burn fuel more completely and efficiently by preserving the fuel system and engine.

USAGE DIRECTIONS:

1oz (30ml) treats 10 gallons (38L) of fuel. Recommended for use in fresh fuel at every fill up in season for year-round performance & protection. Perfect for use in all boats, jet skies, and other watersport engines.

 

[John Jensen]

Stabil Marine 360 checks all of the boxes including stabilization of the fuel which TCW3 does not.

I agree, TCW3 does not stabilize but the OP's testimony offers a benefit that makes me wonder. I use additives in all of my small gas tools to stabilize and, more importantly, keep those tiny main jets from clogging while in storage. I have found more than one additive that did not prevent main jet clogging. The only one that has consistently worked is PRI-G. The OP gives excellent testimony on how his gas engines start up every time after being stored. That tells me the carb main jets are not clogging when using TCW3. I find that very telling.

 

[heefageLA]

I agree, TCW3 does not stabilize but the OP's testimony offers a benefit that makes me wonder. I use additives in all of my small gas tools to stabilize and, more importantly, keep those tiny main jets from clogging while in storage. I have found more than one additive that did not prevent main jet clogging. The only one that has consistently worked is PRI-G. The OP gives excellent testimony on how his gas engines start up every time after being stored. That tells me the carb main jets are not clogging when using TCW3. I find that very telling.

And its a pull start! First or second pull everytime, even in the winter.

Comparing the Sta-bil Marine 360 and Pennzoil Marine TCW3 basically claim the same thing.

Both treat the fuel for moisture and ethanol.
Both remove carbon build up and combustion chamber deposits.
Both lubricate the fuel system components and upper ignition chamber...

 

[HEMIMANN]

TCW-3 is for water cooled 2 stroke engines. Period.

It has lower detergent and oxidation additives than JASO FD air cooled 2 stroke engines that operate at much higher temperature and rpm.

Adding 2 stroke oil to a 4 stroke engine is detrimental. Automotive engines are meant to go hundreds of thousands of miles. Outboard engines are not. You are adding deposits, not removing them.

 

[heefageLA]

TCW-3 is for water cooled 2 stroke engines. Period.

It has lower detergent and oxidation additives than JASO FD air cooled 2 stroke engines that operate at much higher temperature and rpm.

Adding 2 stroke oil to a 4 stroke engine is detrimental. Automotive engines are meant to go hundreds of thousands of miles. Outboard engines are not. You are adding deposits, not removing them.

The man I was waiting for! Not trying to argue. Just a healthy discussion because ive been using it for so long. Its a rabbit hole for sure.

Heres what I found on the "ashless" oil used in TCW3 certifications.

"Ashless detergents are used in low temperature applications such as TCW3 oils where the ring land temperature is held below 300 deg/f. These detergents work well in engines where an excess of cooling capacity is available and power valves are not used. Ashless detergents are manufactured form organic nitrogen compounds (Hydrazine) instead of heavy metal compounds; therefore, they produce no ash as they are burned away. This is where the name “Ashless” comes from. Oils containing this type detergent have a characteristic Ammonia odor."

"1. Nitrogen-based detergents clean combustion chambers and improve octane requirements (this is a slow effect).
2. Minimal UCL helps seal rings and valves in high milage motors improving compression.
3. The gas atomization and flame propagation is somehow changed by low concentration of PIB. We know that high molecular weight PIB is capable of doing that and that TCW-3 contains PIB."

 

[Dean2]

HEMI - No point in continuing. I got that clearly after my first response.

OP - you are in fact arguing. No matter what someone else posts, you cut and paste a rebuttal. You want to add oil in your motors, have at it, because obviously no one is going to be able to provide sufficient informatioon to offset your beliefs built up from doing it for years.

 

[heefageLA]

HEMI - No point in continuing. I got that clearly after my first response.

OP - you are in fact arguing. No matter what someone else posts, you cut and paste a rebuttal. You want to add oil in your motors, have at it, because obviously no one is going to be able to provide sufficient informatioon to offset your beliefs built up from doing it for years.

Just looking for concrete factual information besides, "hogwash", when it stats very clearly it does what you say it doesnt...
Theres 30 years worth of information using this stuff and im asking legitimate petroleum experts for their opinion.
Im offering information, not any rebuttal. Im not trying to prove anyone wrong here. Dont you enjoy learning?

 

[heefageLA]

TCW3 treated fuel burn test and standard 87 octane burn test.
Watch how much cleaner the fuel burns when treated. It could be unicorn farts and fairy boogers though...

It stand to reason that since the burn is "less explosive" it would lower the octane rating, no?
Remember guys, this is a Q&A, not a Peen measurement contest.

87 octane gasoline burning test

Shell regular. Notice amounts of soot and how explosion exhausts the candle.

www.youtube.com

TCW3 oil 1:500 in gasoline burning test

Notice less soot and the how burn is somewhat less explosive.

www.youtube.com

 

[Wild one]

I think if you were doing this,it'd be wise to pull a couple plugs every 15,000 to 20,000 miles and stick a boroscope in the cylinders to monitor any carbon build up on the pistons,and to keep a close eye on build up on the plugs

 

[chri5k]

Like that old saying; If it feels good, do it.

As for small 2- strokes, I have used the Husqvarna fuel in my chainsaws. One was on the shelf with fuel in it for nearly two years. It fired right up when I needed it.

 

[heefageLA]

I think if you were doing this,it'd be wise to pull a couple plugs every 15,000 to 20,000 miles and stick a boroscope in the cylinders to monitor any carbon build up on the pistons,and to keep a close eye on build up on the plugs

Dont have a scope, but I can pull the 4-wheeler, generator, and a jeep plug to see how they look. Those three engines have had that mixture in the tank for a good long while.

 

[heefageLA]

Like that old saying; If it feels good, do it.

As for small 2- strokes, I have used the Husqvarna fuel in my chainsaws. One was on the shelf with fuel in it for nearly two years. It fired right up when I needed it.

Alot of things make me feel good that I'd better stay far, far away from.

I own only (2) small 2-stroke engines, the chainsaw and the weedeater. I like the premix Trufuel because its ethanol free and lasts several years in the can.
If I used a 2-stroke everyday id be more apt to mix my own.... Once I finally buy a Yamaha Banshee, one day, ill geek out on 2-stroke fuel for sure.

 

[Docwagon1776]

Ive been using this additive for many years now with great success. I can go months on end with fuel being in my jeep, mower, 4-wheelers, generator, etc... and have never had an issue with the engines starting immediately and running great.

I don't put anything in my gasoline other than more gasoline. My car doesn't move in the winter at all, it just sits on a battery tender, from early November until mid-March or so. Zero issues, ever. Gas from the prior year in the lawn mower, 4 stroke weedeater, etc. No issues. I was overseas for 2 years without stepping foot back in the states. My Jeep started and drove with no issue at all with the same gas it has in it when I left.

Gasoline is not milk. It does not spoil as quickly as some people think.

Have you seen any concerns about lack of lubrication causing issues in the fueling system of high milage 6.4L motors? Your vehicle was designed for the level of lubricity already available to it.

IMO, you are addressing a problem that largely doesn't exist for your truck. If you had an older diesel designed around sulfur rich diesel, and were forced to use modern ULSD then an additive would likely be beneficial to the long term health of the vehicle. A modern gas engine using modern gas? The evidence you don't need it is on the road with you every day.

 

[heefageLA]

IMO, you are addressing a problem that largely doesn't exist for your truck.

This is 100% true for my truck and jeep. I dont need this for either larger vehicle, but the small carbureted engines see the perceived benefit.
Im going to pull a few spark plugs this weekend and see how they look.

Im half tempted to try and contact Project Farm and say, "hey man! Ive got a new idea for one of those tests."
Something a little more substantial than someone spraying a candle with a spray bottle. Lol