To Cummins or not to Cummins?

[David Oakes]

That's fuel usage, not dilution.

 

[06 Dodge]

FYI the 2019 to 2024 trucks inject extra diesel fuel on the exhaust stroke ( that is where fuel dilution can happen) the fuel injected on the exhaust stroke helps heat up the DPF to burn soot to ash, the 2025 and 2026 truck now have a dedicated fuel line to he DPF for injecting fuel for the DPF to use....

 

[HuskerRam]

EGR delete on a Cummings is not advised. EGR is essential for the diesel to run cooler and longer life. It's not just for emissions. Short runs only mean you will use a little more DEF fluid to clean the system. This is due to the particulate filter doesn't reach the temperature needed to clean itself naturally without DEF. Also removing the EGR will void any warranty. Allowing a it to idle after first start will buy you nothing in longevity and only waste fuel and increase DEF usage. Driving every once in awhile on the highway also doesn't really help except use more gas which is far more expensive then using DEF fluid to do the same job.

DEF has nothing to do with the DPF. DEF is injected between the DOC/DPF and SCR to lower NOX at the tailpipe. It's highly advisable to drive a short-run diesel on the highway to build up the heat needed to burn off the soot collected in the DPF...towing does it quicker, but unloaded at highway speeds will induce passive regeneration. The EGR helps "cool" the air within the combustion chamber (and re-burn soot), but it doesn't go anything to extend the life of the engine. In fact, the EGR works to clog the intake manifold and is an expensive point-of-failure if develops a crack and allows coolant into the combustion chamber. The EGR's sole purpose is for emissions.

OP...my opinion (worth what you paid for it) is to get a gasser based on your needs. I do love diesel...but she's a real expensive mistress with particular needs.

 

[Docwagon1776]

That's fuel usage, not dilution.

More fuel at the same load means any bypass is amplified and you get more fuel dilution in the oil. There is always some bypass.

*edited for clarity*

 

[David Oakes]

Fuel dilution in the oil? Wow are you ever off track. But you'll never see that.

The fuel injected into the doc/dpf has nothing to do with what you're talking about. An engine travelling down the road at highway speeds doesn't need to raise rpms for a regen, it's already at temperature so it will continue using the same amount of fuel. The doc/dpf injected fuel does not pass through the engine at all.

And IMHO if you're actually operating an engine with significantly measureable fuel dilution bypass, you've got other problems coming very soon.

 

[Docwagon1776]

Fuel dilution in the oil? Wow are you ever off track. But you'll never see that.

The fuel injected into the doc/dpf has nothing to do with what you're talking about. An engine travelling down the road at highway speeds doesn't need to raise rpms for a regen, it's already at temperature so it will continue using the same amount of fuel. The doc/dpf injected fuel does not pass through the engine at all.

And IMHO if you're actually operating an engine with significantly measureable fuel dilution bypass, you've got other problems coming very soon.

The question was about forcing regen with alfaobd. I'm sure he's driving down the road while doing that.

You should probably tell Ram and Cummins fuel dilution is nothing to worry about. They seem to think it is. This is an older bulletin now, but note what it says about idle times, short trips, and regen cycles and how they relate to....fuel dilution.


Dodge Tech Net Bulletin

Case Number K44264524

Vehicle Issue Engine oil level is high or may show overfull.

Model DH -Ram Pickup HD, D1 -Ram Pickup 3500, DC -Ram 3500 Cab Chassis, DM -RAM 4500 / 5500 CAB CHASSIS

Engine 6. 7L CUMMINS TURBO DIESEL
Catagory Customer Concern (No DTCs)

System or Component : Engine Oil

Symptom : Oil Level Too High

Case Verification : Engine oil may have been recently changed. The customer may state the "Oil Change Required" message comes on too soon I at too short of an interval. Engine oil analysis may show above 5% fuel in oil dilution.

Recommendation

* Be Aware *

The closed-crankcase ventilation system on the 6. 7l Cummins Turbo Diesel engine retains oil much longer than on previous 5. 9L engines. Remove the engine oil fill cap while draining the engine oil to allow the CCV filter to drain. If the engine is only allowed to drain for a short time, then refilled with engine oil, the crankcase may actually be overfilled. The "Oil Change Required" message displayed on the EVIC is sent over the vehicle BUS system from the ECM. The message is requested when the ECM calculates there is excessive (above 5%) fuel in the engine oil dilution. This calculation is derived from engine idle time and the amount of time the engine is performing an 'active' exhaust regeneration. During these operating conditions, a small amount of fuel will get into the engine oil. This is normal operation of the engine.

Comments:

Reducing excessive engine idle time (above 20% engine idle time is generally considered excessive). Idle time is counted when there is zero vehicle speed and the throttle position is at rest (zero to 5 percent).

Engine idle time is determined by dividing the total engine idle time (displayed in hours) into the total time (displayed in hours). This information can be found in trip information.

Also note the total desired I completed I incomplete exhaust regenerations.

If possible, also note the ignition key cycles or engine warm-up cycles. Active exhaust regenerations must complete. If a regeneration (or 'De-Soot') process does not complete during an operation cycle, during the next operating cycle the entire regeneration process will start from the beginning.

Frequent short-trip operation of the engine will result in many incomplete regeneration processes (and relatively high fuel dilution in the engine oil).

 

[Docwagon1776]

No, the conversation was about what the op should do when he gets a truck next year. Didn't need to get in the weeds, frequent short trips are bad. Period. Which is why most seem to be telling him to get a 6.4 gasser instead.

As for that tech bulletin, I can see how a worry wart might think the sky is falling because of it. However, it's just a tech bulletin, not the end of the world. Take off the fill cap, let the system drain long enough and don't overfill the oil on a change. Then don't short trip the truck alot. Just like everybody was already supposed to do. A tech's filed solution to an unknowing user problem.

Personally never been a problem for me, with over 560000 kms on 6.7s and well over 2 million kms on related "small block" Cummins engines since dpf systems were introduced. Nevermind the couple million kilometers I've put on gas vehicles over more than 45 years. Never enough signs of fuel in the used oil to ever be concerned about.

Maybe you are new to forums. I quoted a specific post and replied to it, that's how conversations work within the main topic.

But you'll never see that.

Nobody is quicker to accuse someone of stealing as a thief. I said there's more fuel dilution. I posted a source to back it up. Now you're moving the goal posts to you've never had a problem. Cool. Never said you did. Never said the OP would. Never said the sky was falling Never said anything other than it would *cause an increase in fuel dilution*...which it does.

That's fuel usage, not dilution.

Which is wrong.

So, you're both arguing with something I never said and refusing to just see what I posted is right while you were wrong for whatever reason.

You either get it or you don't, I figure a reasonable reader understands at this point, so I'll not be responding to you further.

 

[Grams]

The Mopar extended warranty does not cover the DPF's. If you go aftermarket for a warranty contract, read the fine print carefully.

YUP! I was TOLD by the selling dealer’s Finance-man that the Mopar Extended warranty he was selling me is “bumper to bumper”.

But …IN FACT…. the Catalytic Converters and Particulate Filters are SPECIFICALLY EXCLUDED…. in the fine print of the contract which was mailed to me a Month AFTER I bought it. Surprise Surprise Surprise, Sargent Carter!

 

[jejb]

YUP! I was TOLD by the selling dealer’s Finance-man that the Mopar Extended warranty he was selling me is “bumper to bumper”.

The sales/finance pukes often tell that lie.

 

[Docwagon1776]

YUP! I was TOLD by the selling dealer’s Finance-man that the Mopar Extended warranty he was selling me is “bumper to bumper”.

But …IN FACT…. the Catalytic Converters and Particulate Filters are SPECIFICALLY EXCLUDED…. in the fine print of the contract which was mailed to me a Month AFTER I bought it. Surprise Surprise Surprise, Sargent Carter!

Bumper to bumper...via "connect the dots" pathing.

Mopar's warranty doesn't mean much any more. It was among the cost cutting victims, IMO, and since everything is outsourced to India for warranty claim approval it's not going to get better.

 

[GruntTheDog]

Consider the eventual resale value. Cummins will command more than a gasser.

 

[MarshRam]

I wasn't even given notifications you guys were still talking about this, was actually hoping it just faded away. In the end, I was looking for solutions for a short term issue and mitigation efforts in between. I understand nobody can give 100% guarantees, it's all about the odds. Everything I edited in my post is for mitigation in the short term. I'll be driving this thing all over the country eventually and I don't want to buy another truck in my lifetime left on Planetation Hood. My trucks HEMIs run great at nearly 140K each. Wife wants to do some cross country $hit, my confidence level does drop on partaking in that adventure on said HEMI's (over and over again), they run great though.

The diesel discussion is the weirdest post I have ever made. I feel like there is a secret and you if ain't in the club................. Anyway, I have concluded from this post and a few other newby diesel related diesel posts similar to this, having a diesel to put hundreds of thousands of miles on and feeling confident it will be reliable driving around country in your retirement is a horrible idea. You should definitely get a gasser. There are so many people out there right now running HEMI's across the country with 500K+ miles on original engine with no issues what so ever and feeling really confident about their trips, if you didn't see all the threads and posts on this you must be blind or search function illiterate. All anyone had to say is skip all those dumb irrelevant mods you mentioned and make sure you drive it sufficiently once a week to clean up clogging, moisture, etc. Barely got any info on anything I mentioned. It was just like a "No" game ignoring the question. Y'all flying to outer space at night in these diesels and the rest of us don't know about it??

I'm cool with the mods just deleting this thread, it's clogging up space with mostly useless information, was not my intention. If not, you guys have fun with it! I have a lot of time to figure it out elsewhere. Ironically, it might be a 6.4 or I wait longer and see what happens. Diesel availability for the average citizen in the future is not on a positive trajectory at the moment. LOL

 

[Ritchie_Rich]

EGR delete on a Cummings is not advised. EGR is essential for the diesel to run cooler and longer life. It's not just for emissions. Short runs only mean you will use a little more DEF fluid to clean the system. This is due to the particulate filter doesn't reach the temperature needed to clean itself naturally without DEF. Also removing the EGR will void any warranty. Allowing a it to idle after first start will buy you nothing in longevity and only waste fuel and increase DEF usage. Driving every once in awhile on the highway also doesn't really help except use more gas which is far more expensive then using DEF fluid to do the same job.

This post is funny ^^^

 

[Ritchie_Rich]

I wasn't even given notifications you guys were still talking about this, was actually hoping it just faded away. In the end, I was looking for solutions for a short term issue and mitigation efforts in between. I understand nobody can give 100% guarantees, it's all about the odds. Everything I edited in my post is for mitigation in the short term. I'll be driving this thing all over the country eventually and I don't want to buy another truck in my lifetime left on Planetation Hood. My trucks HEMIs run great at nearly 140K each. Wife wants to do some cross country $hit, my confidence level does drop on partaking in that adventure on said HEMI's (over and over again), they run great though.

The diesel discussion is the weirdest post I have ever made. I feel like there is a secret and you if ain't in the club................. Anyway, I have concluded from this post and a few other newby diesel related diesel posts similar to this, having a diesel to put hundreds of thousands of miles on and feeling confident it will be reliable driving around country in your retirement is a horrible idea. You should definitely get a gasser. There are so many people out there right now running HEMI's across the country with 500K+ miles on original engine with no issues what so ever and feeling really confident about their trips, if you didn't see all the threads and posts on this you must be blind or search function illiterate. All anyone had to say is skip all those dumb irrelevant mods you mentioned and make sure you drive it sufficiently once a week to clean up clogging, moisture, etc. Barely got any info on anything I mentioned. It was just like a "No" game ignoring the question. Y'all flying to outer space at night in these diesels and the rest of us don't know about it??

I'm cool with the mods just deleting this thread, it's clogging up space with mostly useless information, was not my intention. If not, you guys have fun with it! I have a lot of time to figure it out elsewhere. Ironically, it might be a 6.4 or I wait longer and see what happens. Diesel availability for the average citizen in the future is not on a positive trajectory at the moment. LOL

Actually the posts were about the question in the title of this thread. The majority seem to be “not to Cummins”. That was the question you asked.

 

[Gr8bawana]

Guess the OP didn't like the answers he got so he needed to have a temper tantrum for his last post.