Towing an RV Trailer

[sandawilliams]

If you don't think it matters towing heavy and long with a 1500 just get in a 60 mph cross wind and you will find out what is in control of your setup. Been there.

 

[MasonD21]

Been there. Got the t-shirt.

 

[tbaker65]

Nope. Because 3500 guys know that a 2500 and 3500 are pretty much identical in terms of the overall platform.

Well, it was really more of a rhetorical question...

With that said, the conversation was about capability/performance rather than "platform" and although I'm really not interested in trying to win a back-and-forth argument between the 3500 vs. 2500 now, and without comparing all the numbers and such, I'm guessing the 3500 can outperform the 2500 at about the same rate as the 2500 vs. 1500... no?

Either way, they're all fine trucks. I love my 1500 and it is more than capable of doing what I need it to do. And if I ever decide I need anything "heavy-duty", I'd probably skip the 2500 and go right up the 3500 and be done with it, for the added capability.

Take care.

 

[ncgrl1]

You may want to go with a Kenworth or Freightliner after this...

 

[VernDiesel]

The disappointing thing to me is that precious few of these discussions evolve into something much more valuable & useful. Such as actually learning what makes for and how to set your TV & TT up for a safe stable tow.

How to adjust it to be a within manufacturer spec legal by the numbers tow. When the average guys set up is not.

The same half ton with the same say 30’ floorplan TT can be sketchy unstable & out of specs or safe stable within specs and a joy to tow. It’s often first & foremost in setting it up. Naturally with a half ton it can’t be a version with an idadaquate motor or improper gearing.

People spout off or parrot about things like TT tongue weight specs & stacking up weight estimates toward a yellow payload sticker number. When the TT in question is over 5k requiring a WDH making those numbers off and not very useful. Not useful for determing whether something can or will be safe & stable or even within mfg spec or “legal”. This is because with a WDH TW is dynamic not static as the hitch divides the TW between the TV & the TT axles. In estimating in such way people wrongly under estimate available payload or more specifically available gross vehicle weight GVW. They are also off on the actual seen TW (which is a change in TV axle weights) and TW percentage.

Many people either tow unsafely or spend big for a bigger truck unnecessarily for the same reason. IE They have no idea how to set up a WDH & load via scale results and or are too lazy or afraid to apply themselves & learn. Not being solely their fault as it is not commonly taught by RV dealerships or even talked about on truck forums. Nobody is responsible for teaching this. This is why threads like this one are often discussed on forums by well meaning people with a lot of half truths.

A CAT or truck stop scale weights 3 things at one time steer, drive, & trailer axle weight. These are generally needed to actually know if & where you are over a weight spec and whether your load is overweight and whether adjustments are or can bring your TV TT combo into weight spec which will provide stability.

CAT has a free app with info & gps locator. Today they are in every state near every city. You can likely go to one on your way to or from camping or the dealership. You normally only need to do it one time with your TV & wet TT unless your load changes dramatically. Often it’s $12 & $2 per additional weight to set your rig up for a safe stable enjoyable & even “legal” tow. You bought TV, TT, even WDH now isn’t your familys safety, your nerves, and making your tow enjoyable instead of white knuckled worth that?

It’s not difficult or complicated either. Here is the main things you need to know & do.

If you don’t know your TV steer & total weight weigh it. Once on the scales with TV & wet TT adjust weight distribution hitch & weight placement in TV & TT to A at minimum replace your unloaded steer weight. B see that your drive axle weight is at or below its max rating and C generally the closer to making drive & steer axle weights equal the better.

With the weight slips you can actually see steer, drive, trailer axle weights, TV gross vehicle weight GVW, and combined vehicle weight CVW. You can also calculate TW and TW percentage. Fwiw it’s more stable to be a little above gvwr than to get the TW below 10 percent.

Modern WDHs with built in sway control come with instructions & or are available online. Many people who own a given brand WDH here & on TT forums can give you tips & tricks to adjustments & getting more out of your hitch. But mostly just get their & do it and it will quickly become more clear as you work with it.

Last here is what I do when selecting a WDH for a given trailer. Take wet TT weight or if I don’t have it take dry spec weight and add 1k (most common) for an estimated wet weight. Multiply that number by 10 & 15 percent for a TW range that I am going to set my hitch to be inside of then select the WD bars that are appropriate for that range.

Example Husky Centerline WDH has 3 WD bars to choose from 500 to 800, 800 to 1,200, & 1,000 to 1,400 pounds TW.

If I had a TT of 7K. I would likely pick the middle spring bar as even at 12 percent I’m toward the bottom of the ideal range.

If I had a really big heavy TT IMO for a half ton chassis of 8k. TW would be between 800 & 1,200 pounds. (10 to 15 percent) IE I would overlap two spring bar choices. In this case with a soft suspension half ton I would pick the stiffer 1,000 to 1,400 bar as I likely need all the WT I can get to down to a low TW percentage & stay near GVWR. But if I had a more stiffly suspension HD I would choose the softer 8 to 1,200 bar as the TV suspension is already stiff also it shouldn’t need as much WT to meet GVWR.

 

[ncgrl1]

The disappointing thing to me is that precious few of these discussions evolve into something much more valuable & useful. Such as actually learning what makes for and how to set your TV & TT up for a safe stable tow.

How to adjust it to be a within manufacturer spec legal by the numbers tow. When the average guys set up is not.

The same half ton with the same say 30’ floorplan TT can be sketchy unstable & out of specs or safe stable within specs and a joy to tow. It’s often first & foremost in setting it up. Naturally with a half ton it can’t be a version with an idadaquate motor or improper gearing.

People spout off or parrot about things like TT tongue weight specs & stacking up weight estimates toward a yellow payload sticker number. When the TT in question is over 5k requiring a WDH making those numbers off and not very useful. Not useful for determing whether something can or will be safe & stable or even within mfg spec or “legal”. This is because with a WDH TW is dynamic not static as the hitch divides the TW between the TV & the TT axles. In estimating in such way people wrongly under estimate available payload or more specifically available gross vehicle weight GVW. They are also off on the actual seen TW (which is a change in TV axle weights) and TW percentage.

Many people either tow unsafely or spend big for a bigger truck unnecessarily for the same reason. IE They have no idea how to set up a WDH & load via scale results and or are too lazy or afraid to apply themselves & learn. Not being solely their fault as it is not commonly taught by RV dealerships or even talked about on truck forums. Nobody is responsible for teaching this. This is why threads like this one are often discussed on forums by well meaning people with a lot of half truths.

A CAT or truck stop scale weights 3 things at one time steer, drive, & trailer axle weight. These are generally needed to actually know if & where you are over a weight spec and whether your load is overweight and whether adjustments are or can bring your TV TT combo into weight spec which will provide stability.

CAT has a free app with info & gps locator. Today they are in every state near every city. You can likely go to one on your way to or from camping or the dealership. You normally only need to do it one time with your TV & wet TT unless your load changes dramatically. Often it’s $12 & $2 per additional weight to set your rig up for a safe stable enjoyable & even “legal” tow. You bought TV, TT, even WDH now isn’t your familys safety, your nerves, and making your tow enjoyable instead of white knuckled worth that?

It’s not difficult or complicated either. Here is the main things you need to know & do.

If you don’t know your TV steer & total weight weigh it. Once on the scales with TV & wet TT adjust weight distribution hitch & weight placement in TV & TT to A at minimum replace your unloaded steer weight. B see that your drive axle weight is at or below its max rating and C generally the closer to making drive & steer axle weights equal the better.

With the weight slips you can actually see steer, drive, trailer axle weights, TV gross vehicle weight GVW, and combined vehicle weight CVW. You can also calculate TW and TW percentage. Fwiw it’s more stable to be a little above gvwr than to get the TW below 10 percent.

Modern WDHs with built in sway control come with instructions & or are available online. Many people who own a given brand WDH here & on TT forums can give you tips & tricks to adjustments & getting more out of your hitch. But mostly just get their & do it and it will quickly become more clear as you work with it.

Last here is what I do when selecting a WDH for a given trailer. Take wet TT weight or if I don’t have it take dry spec weight and add 1k (most common) for an estimated wet weight. Multiply that number by 10 & 15 percent for a TW range that I am going to set my hitch to be inside of then select the WD bars that are appropriate for that range.

Example Husky Centerline WDH has 3 WD bars to choose from 500 to 800, 800 to 1,200, & 1,000 to 1,400 pounds TW.

If I had a TT of 7K. I would likely pick the middle spring bar as even at 12 percent I’m toward the bottom of the ideal range.

If I had a really big heavy TT IMO for a half ton chassis of 8k. TW would be between 800 & 1,200 pounds. (10 to 15 percent) IE I would overlap two spring bar choices. In this case with a soft suspension half ton I would pick the stiffer 1,000 to 1,400 bar as I likely need all the WT I can get to down to a low TW percentage & stay near GVWR. But if I had a more stiffly suspension HD I would choose the softer 8 to 1,200 bar as the TV suspension is already stiff also it shouldn’t need as much WT to meet GVWR.

Spoken by someone who truly knows this stuff!!! Well said Vern.

 

[Docpaulo]

Late to the conversation.. just want to recommend that if you tow with the 1500 adding an electronic sway controller on the trailer may help reduce your risk...

As what has already been said... you run out of payload before towing capacity... i have the same issue with my powerwagon... your 1500 has more payload than my Laramie powerwagon

 

[reek]

Yeah, here's the guy who was chastising me about my 1500. In a thread I was browsing this morning, I found this:
----------------------------



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Then after he buys a 2500 he remarkably has more of a safety conscience about it, going so far as accusing me of threatening the lives of him and his family...? Does this seem odd to anyone else besides me?
-------------------------

------------------------

Anyhow, I love my 1500 and its capabilities are well-within what I need it for. This talk about you can't tow with it or need a 2500 are, well, nonsense...

Cheers!

I didn't buy enough truck and overloaded it once or twice out of necessity. I wised up, lost my shirt but bought a 2500 less than a year after buying my 1500. YOU are advocating it as a regular practice.


either way, a lot of time and effort invested to find all of my old posts. well done. you win. I'm a douche. move on.

 

[GsRAM]

Well said vern. You do have a lot of good info in your post..

However I still feel that if your pushing the upper end of the half ton range 7500 lb loaded it's better to go 2500 and be done.

Just my opinion. You didn't mention receiver strength. Unless you have a strong receiver, you may not be able to tension very stiff wdh bars without flexing that receiver. If you have that much tongue weight your trying to transfer to the steer axle to stay within ratings I feel it best just to go 2500.

Again with enough effort can you safely tow heavy with a half ton? Absolutely! And I've done it, but my preference is when your up in weights, I prefer the extra margin offered by the 2500.

 

[tbaker65]

You know reek, this may be hard for you (and some others reading this) to believe, based on a couple of my colorful posts, but in the real world I'm a pretty easy-going guy, easy to get along with and generally well-liked... I'm a live and let live guy. As long as you aint causing me harm, my general philosophy is you go right ahead and do what pleases you, even if I might not approve of it... I'm all for life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness... On the flip side of that, I can also be passionate in defense of myself when called out, and especially when someone intentionally twists things I've said or didn't say with untruths. Once again, you've induced me to clear up a couple of things.

I didn't buy enough truck and overloaded it once or twice out of necessity.

Well, that's about the most vague and subjective defense I can think of, but if you feel it justifies you overloading your truck then publicly condemning me for the same thing (I actually never overloaded my truck, nor said I would) and accusing me of endangering the lives of you and your family... I don't need to defend the obvious. I'll be nice here and say that's "contradictory" at the best... Also, the "once or twice" thing doesn't really jive with your previous "mostly overload a few times a year" thing... But, whatever... once or twice, a few times a year... who's counting?

YOU are advocating it as a regular practice.

That sir, is blatantly false. I have NEVER advocated it - never, zero. I've never, EVER, advocated overloading even ONCE...? Not even if it was for, as you justify, "out of necessity"...? That's BS, plain and simple, and I'll advise you don't put words in my mouth and expect me not to call you out on it. With such accusations you should be prepared to use some sort of facts/evidence to back that up... You are twisting things out of context, where I was merely defending the 1500's capabilities, and now you turn that into "I advocate overloading your trucks as a regular practice"...? Again, BS, plain and simple. I've been relatively decent with you so far, but that's been a couple of times now that you've done that... I'll leave it at that for now.

a lot of time and effort invested to find all of my old posts.

Sir, it's becoming regular that you insinuate, intentionally imply things about me that again, are simply not true. To clarify, I spent not one minute, not one second to find/search for any of your posts, old OR new - that's right, ZERO "time and effort invested" - which is, for clarity, the absolute opposite of your "a lot of time and effort invested"... I really don't have any personal vendetta against you and your implication that you are somehow that important to me to use up "a lot of time and effort" searching out your posts for some sort of retaliation is, well, paranoid. The older thread that you posted in happened to be refreshed and I was merely browsing through it when I came across your posts, which coincidentally, to my surprise (and humor) happened to contain you stating you doing the exact same thing you condemned me for (which again, I never did). So yes, I called you on it... The only "lot of time and effort invested" (wasted) I've spent on you is defending myself against your twisting accusations... I've done ZERO searches for your posts...

I'm a douche.

Well reek, I'd honestly like to defend you here and say lighten up on yourself, but frankly, you're not giving me a lot to work with here... Now that I've gotten that wise-crack out of the way, I'll say this: aside from your targeted shots at me, from what little of your posts I have seen I wouldn't condemn you to doucheville... We all have flaws and I have more than my own share... but my belief is that being aware and accepting of your own flaws and trying to be less judgmental on others despite of our own shortcomings is a virtue, something I myself try to improve on.

Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness... and the pursuit of trying to be a better human being...

Take care.

 

[busterbrown]

Is this a "truck" forum or a "you hurt my feelings and I need closure" forum? WTF guys!!!

The debate on 1/2 tons vs 3/4 tons for towing purposes will forever live on. But let me sum it up. If you're reliant on using a capable 1/2 ton to tow a trailer, load up, go to the scales, and get weighed. It's that simple. The numbers won't lie. If you're not exceeding manufacturer specs (GAWR, Payload, tires, GCWR, and GVWR) and you're comfortable with your rig's performance at highway speeds, go enjoy some good camping.

If, however, capacities ARE exceeded and/or your knuckles hurt after a trip, reconsider your TV (and/or trailer) to amend your situation. It may get costly as many of us learned the hard (ie expensive) way.

Stay safe everyone and let's talk some HEMI horse power.

 

[tbaker65]

Stay safe everyone and let's talk some HEMI horse power.

I'll concur sir... and am guilty of such, but as with all things of this nature the main subject can take some tangents. It is a bit the nature of the beast... And nobody hurts my feelings...

Enjoy your HEMIs, happy towing!

 

[VernDiesel]

GsRam No disagreement. If I was picking a TV strictly for camping with a 7,500 TT plus family, fuel economy no major concern not used as a daily driver it would be an HD.

For the guy who already owns a truck and doesn't want to trade but wants X TT and is trying to enlist help as to what he can safely do.. well he often gets bad conflicting advice in both directions. With nobody telling him look between this range it depends on the results you are able to get on the scales. Meaning you might be able to get it to meet spec with WD in which case it will be safe & stable. If not you might not be legally compliant and it might be a little sketchy in an emergency swerve around or bad wind / roads.

Instead he get parrots that say "OMG it will be over payload look at the yellow sticker see! the sky will fall" Pfff. Or he gets "yeah I just hook my 10k kamper and don't even know its back there. You'll be fine just watch out for all the idiots that flash you their lights when it gets dark." Best he usually gets is buy E load tires and airbags and oh yea a WDH. Never mind that if he gets to the last part he uses it like a hitch with no weight distribution happening and nobody every said look you take your rig to the scales and here is what you are trying to accomplish.


Edit yeah I didn't address the receiver. Its certainly not the first or a big problem. Just trying to address the main thing that the answer to what can it tow is ultimately at the scales as is how to concretely know when you will have a safe stable tow setup.

BTW 4th gen receiver max is 1,150 pounds TW or 1,290 with WDH according to Ram bodybuilder site. Plus getting people to understand that with a WDH the static TT TW number is not relevant. What the WDH transfers to the TV axles from the TT is the thing for axle weights and GVWR.

 

[GsRAM]

GsRam No disagreement. If I was picking a TV strictly for camping with a 7,500 TT plus family, fuel economy no major concern not used as a daily driver it would be an HD.

For the guy who already owns a truck and doesn't want to trade but wants X TT and is trying to enlist help as to what he can safely do.. well he often gets bad conflicting advice in both directions. With nobody telling him look between this range it depends on the results you are able to get on the scales. Meaning you might be able to get it to meet spec with WD in which case it will be safe & stable. If not you might not be legally compliant and it might be a little sketchy in an emergency swerve around or bad wind / roads.

Instead he get parrots that say "OMG it will be over payload look at the yellow sticker see! the sky will fall" Pfff. Or he gets "yeah I just hook my 10k kamper and don't even know its back there. You'll be fine just watch out for all the idiots that flash you their lights when it gets dark." Best he usually gets is buy E load tires and airbags and oh yea a WDH. Never mind that if he gets to the last part he uses it like a hitch with no weight distribution happening and nobody every said look you take your rig to the scales and here is what you are trying to accomplish.


Edit yeah I didn't address the receiver. Its certainly not the first or a big problem. Just trying to address the main thing that the answer to what can it tow is ultimately at the scales as is how to concretely know when you will have a safe stable tow setup.

BTW 4th gen receiver max is 1,150 pounds TW or 1,290 with WDH according to Ram bodybuilder site. Plus getting people to understand that with a WDH the static TT TW number is not relevant. What the WDH transfers to the TV axles from the TT is the thing for axle weights and GVWR.

Good deal. yes, .Agreed.

 

[VernDiesel]

I and a few others try to explain and lay out the case on here and on other forums. I have used with and without WD scale slips. But with a never ending tide of newbies put with lots of "help" as described in my last post I doubt it will ever become common knowledge or practice.

Hey no hemi here but the lil diesel will tug the same load just not as fast. Well and with a lot less fuel.

 

[Docpaulo]

Anybody that tows at the limits without hitting a scale is risking trouble.


Loads shift and tongue weight can go you or down a few hundred pounds easily just by how you load it

 

[marks146]

I bought my 2017 RAM 1500 Specifically for towing a 28 Ft Camper. It’s, a Long Horn with the Larime Package with all the bells and whisles.

It is a Hemi, with a 3.91 rearend, factory brake controller and 32 gal fuel.

I added Air Lift to the rear coil springs so the truck and trailer are level. This rig works out pretty well. When I get to a campsite and unhook, I still have a nice ride for going out to dinner or whatever.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I went the same route. I added air ride, and all the same things you did. I am pulling a 32 footer. I ended up trading mine in for a 2500 with a 6 liter gas. The 1500 just didn't do well in the hills. I never felt "safe" with the trailer hitched up. The 2500 has more robust components in the suspension and brakes. The capacities are higher and the hitch is a 2.5" bar size rated much higher than the 1500. Even towing with a 2500 you still know the trailer is there, it just handles it better.

 

[DAKSY]

Well, here I am the NEWBY to travel trailering, although I HAVE towed boats & small trailers with building materials.
I also spent some time in Big Rigs, although it was nearly ALL yardwork & fuel island stuff.
Anyway, my wife (aka The Princess) & I are BOTH retiring this year & we decided that we wanna head to less snowy climes with our Harleys during the New York blizzard months, or January thru March or April for however many years we have left on this planet.
We had a 2007 2500 that we traded with 100K on it last November & picked up at 2018 6.4l 2500. While we didn't get into the science (physics) behind trailering, we decided that whatever trailer we were gonna get was gonna have another 1760 lbs in bikes added to it.
That led us to forgo the 5.7l & go for the 6.4...Mainly for the OOMPH of the larger Hemi.
We paid for our new TT yesterday, but we won't get it til the snow clears & we have room at the house to park it.
It's a leftover 2017 Stryker 2916 Toy Hauler & after reading the entire list of comments on this post, I'm glad we went the way we did.
We don't utilize the capacity of the 2500 most of the time, but it is what it is & I'm thinking we are gonna be two happy "campers" with our choices!
Thank you all for the pluses & minuses & ballbusting. Glad to be a member of the forum.
MoPar or no car...

 

[pugfug]

We just bought a 27ft Keystone Outback that weighs in at 5400lbs. I have a 2017 Power wagon, so I purposefully limited myself to a max weight of 5500lbs in making my decision, to stay right around 50% of my max tow. RV's are very popular where we live...and most of the folks I know who tow them are using either 1500's or large SUV's, but I'm a newbie and I want to err on the side of caution. Looking forward to how the PW performs...towing is not its primary purpose, but I think its going to add a lot of versatility to our camping experience

 

[Ocelot]

The thing I don't understand is why Ram (and others) keep changing the cargo capacity year to year with virtually no change in the trucks suspension. The door sticker on my 2011 SLT with only the 4.7 has a cargo capacity of 1499 lbs, but newer years are less.

My 2109s camper is small, only 3,927 lbs dry on the sticker as it left the factory, and a max gross weight of 5,225 lbs, so I'm way under my 7,100 lb towing capacity with my camper at about 4800 loaded. I like having lots of cushion in capacity because it makes towing much more relaxing. I've had truck/camper combos that were within limits but close to the top and it wasn't nearly as nice as having a couple thousand pound cushion.