Towing an RV Trailer

[Rader]

Like anything else experience is a major factor in what we feel comfortable with. I have a 21 ft TT that has a GVWR of 7,500 and the it is equipped for remote camping when loaded it is right up there. The hitch weight is considerable, it has an Onan 2500 LP generator & propane tank on the tongue and two group 31 AGM batteries just behind the generator. It has two mounted plumbed in 7.5 propane tanks in the rear and a rack that I carry another propane tank and seven 5 gallon gas and or diesel cans.

I have a Ram 2500 diesel that I occasionally towed it with but because many of my trips were to hunt or fish when I reached my destination I preferred to tow it with the lifted WJ overland on BFG MTs that I owned at that time. The WJ Overland had the factory tow package, wired for the brake controller and at all times I used an Equal-i-zer brand weight distribution hitch. I didn't keep track of miles but my guess is I towed the TT about 20,000 miles back and forth across the US and all over the west. No control problems and not one mechanical problem other than the 4.7 grunting on hills and a few flat tires.

The WJ is gone, In 2015 I bought a 1500 EcoDiesel, even though I still have the Ram 2500 diesel the 1500 rides better and gets better mileage so it is my preferred tow rig at this time. I noted a few mentions of feeling uncomfortable towing in crosswinds, the best advise I could give is no matter what you are towing with slow down in crosswinds and if you are towing in areas know for blowing over travel trailers and trailer trucks like for instance on I-90 Livingston MT take the alternate route when the signs for dangerous cross winds are out. Crosswinds are not a danger to your truck or even Jeep if you have a good sway controlling hitch, the danger is your trailer may end up on its side, that even happens to trailer trucks.

 

[BIG RED HEMI]

Base Longhorn Laramie CC has a max payload of 1380 lbs. Depending on the "loaded, ready to tow" weight of a 28 foot camper, that's not much capacity to accommodate tongue weight, a weight distribution hitch, and TV passengers/cargo. Adding air bags doesn't increase capacity. That's why I went with a 2500 6.4 Hemi. More than double the payload capacity than the 1/2 ton truck and I never have to think about overloading on a camping trip.

Good choice, that's what I did too. Plenty of power unless you're going through the mountains.

 

[Ramit355]

Here is My Dollars worth...lol.

The 1/2 tons have different ratings of Pulling weight Capacity. Crew cab,Quad cab,three different bed lengths which all change Pay load/Pull load capacity as well. If truck pay and pull capacities have not been exceeded the weights or pulls are Legal and will hold up in any court providing all other safety points were in play such as Hitch, Distributional bars,Sway Bars etc. Most newer Trucks last 5 Years or so the Ram 1500,s have factory sway control where its no longer needed to have a sway bar on the RV. Should the formidable occur while pulling the RV.

Types of RV's to consider pulling: 5th wheel ,Travel trailer,Pop Up ......Pay loads decrease with 5th wheel quite a bit buy pushing tongue weights to bed of truck. 1/2 tons with smaller payloads may not be much less for 5th wheel weights depending on the weight of the 5th wheel which is usually more demanding on Payload capacities. 8500 lb 5th wheel will demand more Payload than a travel trailer or popup. 8500 lb Travel trailer will use very little payload other than tongue weights. If a 1/2 ton has payload of 1700 lbs and a pull Capacity of 8500 lbs it include all weights just like the 5th wheel. So if you have 1700 lbs in the bed at max load on a 1/2 tom you only have 6800 left with to pull or vise-versa. The load for the trucks include one Driver at approx.200 lbs. You must deduct for each person over driver and any addition cargo inside the truck off the 6800 lbs left in that example. Same is for 5th Wheels but usually 5th wheel has nothing else in bed other than RV.

(Most pop ups have no weight distribution bars to help level out the tongue weight.) Some pop ups if very large on small trucks can run over tongue weight very quick and take from from payloads! Have seen a many Mid size trucks over loaded with large pop ups and small travel Trailers! The Length of the RV really has no bearing on the capacities. Have witnessed 38 Ft camper with one slide weighing less than a 29 Ft with three slides just as a side note! Have witnessed older RV 22 foot weighing by far more than a new 32 ft. with 3 slides!

About the RV weights I see many people list....... I cannot imagine pulling an RV with full fresh water tanks or Full Black and gray water tanks when Dry camping for my own thoughts ,but many people do! I only pull inside camp ground 15 or 10 MPH with tanks full after I get there to my camp spot. If close to water dry camping I will run long hose and fill in place! Most folks fill the fresh water after arriving at the camp grounds ,but if you must fill up you must add that weight to your RV which for 90 Gallons would be around 800 lbs! (Most RV,s today and last 8 years come with TVs now days and all you need to camp with minus Dishes blankets etc.) So you would be very hard pressed to load a camper much over its specified weight unless your a pack rat with much canned foods, Pots and pans heavy furniture as some are. Unless you run with 60 to 120 Gallon freshwater tanks full. (If I turned my Better half Loose she would load a camper with its own weight matched!)

Personally I have camped many years with much experience pulling. I have a crew Cab 1500 1/2 ton rated to pull 10000 Lbs with payload Cap. of 1450 Lbs. My RV with all tanks empty (Not Counting Propane Tanks full 150Lbs) or Groceries for a few days and paper towels, paper plates Etc. another 400 to 600 Lbs.So if I have no cargo in my truck just me driving with wife and my bed is empty with some folding chairs and a couple fishing poles (not loaded with FIREWOOD!!! LOL.) Taking 1000 Lbs off for Gas tanks, Groceries, Clothes Etc Etc. 9000 Lbs. My RV weighs 8600 Lbs. If I would pull with fresh water tanks full or need to with much more cargo and 5 people in my truck I would be way over my Legal safe capacity limit.

IMO it depends on what your needs/habits are when you camp as to which Truck size you need. What is your average pulling distances? How often do you go? What other needs do you have for your truck when not Camping? How do you load your RV and truck each time? How many ride with you? How much cargo do you need to take? Many today take two Vehicles camping, you can load other cargo to other vehicles and spare you tow vehicle if its the largest thing you use your truck for Like we do. Or if I decide I like to load up all the Tanks, take enough food and canned goods ETC ETC to last weeks or months at a time with lots of fire wood with long frequent long hauls i would move to larger truck for myself.

One other side note....I have witnessed 3/4 and 1 Ton trucks pulling 35 to 45 ft RV 85 Mph!! I'm sure the weight caps are okay but what the hell would any one need 85MPH pulling an RV? I really want away from those types as far as I can get when I see them. Pulling has to do with road conditions/Weather/Wind as much or more than the Capacities of our trucks IMO. I have been as low as 45 mph in a 70 on windy/wet weather/Heavy rain/Fog Days on a nice cleat calm day 60 is my limit with 50 ideal for myself. I have many with same type truck pass me all the time with near same load. If I want to haul ass and have some fun I take the Scat Pack! It has its limits too as to when and where to raise up some dust!

 

[Rader]

Here is My Dollars worth...lol.

About the RV weights I see many people list....... I cannot imagine pulling an RV with full fresh water tanks or Full Black and gray water tanks when Dry camping for my own thoughts ,but many people do! I only pull inside camp ground 15 or 10 MPH with tanks full after I get there to my camp spot. If close to water dry camping I will run long hose and fill in place! Most folks fill the fresh water after arriving at the camp grounds ,but if you must fill up you must add that weight to your RV which for 90 Gallons would be around 800 lbs! (Most RV,s today and last 8 years come with TVs now days and all you need to camp with minus Dishes blankets etc.) So you would be very hard pressed to load a camper much over its specified weight unless your a pack rat with much canned foods, Pots and pans heavy furniture as some are. Unless you run with 60 to 120 Gallon freshwater tanks full. (If I turned my Better half Loose she would load a camper with its own weight matched!)

We have owned many different TT and drive on some really rough wash boarded, potholed dirt/logging roads with full tanks and never give it a second thought. Having said that.....The part of the world a person lives in, where he camps and if he camp year round plays more of a role in the decision of how much water propane and spare gas or diesel he needs to bring along. In my part of the west we camp mostly in unimproved camp grounds or on any flat spot big enough to park on state or federal ground. Many times we are 80-100 miles from a water hose or a gas station so 160 to 200 mi round trip for fuel and water or to empty holding tanks. And that is IF all the outside water at stations is not turned off and drained for winter.

I do have some weight in the PU box, I have a cross bed tool box with winch recovery gear, tire chains for all 4 wheels and tools. Plus in winter I actually bring along a second generator. A Firman 3608 with remote start. The reason I bring it along because it starts at very cold temps and my darn Onan LP generator is iffy starting below about 15 degrees.

Of note, our camper has enclosed tanks with heat ducts so freezing is not a problem even at -25F as long as the thermostat is set at a minimum of 45 degrees.

 

[mfifield01]

I haven't read the whole thread, but wanted to give my experience.

I tow a 32' (bumper to hitch) light weight RV. My truck is a 2013 Ram 1500 with Factory Air Suspension, 3.92, and longer wheelbase (same as 2500). It is rated for 10,500 lbs of towing, but it would hit payload way before that number. I would dump the passenger car tires that come with truck. You will want LT tires to help out. Also, get a good weight distribution hitch and have it setup correctly. I am using a 4pt Equalizer hitch and I setup it up based on CAT scale weights. After setup, I was able to put all but 40 lbs back on the front axle and 160 lbs back on the trailer. As of now, the truck still has more weight on the front axle while towing. It actually balances the truck out. Unloaded it has about 800 lbs more on the front axle. The truck weighs almost exactly the same as the trailer (both at about 5900 lbs). I have towed just over 11,000 miles with this setup. I have gone from TX to CO. In West Texas, you can see some strong winds.

For the 2500 or bigger debate. I went on a trip from TX to WY with a friend's setup. It was Ram 2500 5.9 Cummins with a trailer that weighed around 9000 lbs. It felt very similar to my setup. It did feel like it pushed a little on his truck going down mountains, but that transmission really didn't downshift like the newer transmissions.

I personally have thought about a Ram 2500 with gas. My main driving tasks are going to work and I don't really need the larger payload. I will probably keep this trailer 2 more years and then I definitely won't need the extra payload.

 

[four bye]

My only suggestion is to watch your transmission temperature especially in the hills. My son is a transmission tech and see's so many trucks come in the shop with overheated transmissions. It's a very expensive trans. to be running hot all the time.

 

[tbaker65]

My only suggestion is to watch your transmission temperature especially in the hills. My son is a transmission tech and see's so many trucks come in the shop with overheated transmissions. It's a very expensive trans. to be running hot all the time.

My transmission seems to run pretty hot anyway... from what I've read here, for the newer 8-speeds, it's "normal" for them to run hotter. I looked at my temp today after some stop-and-go, minor hill climbing, etc. (without towing anything) after a semi-long drive, it was running about 179*, and from what I've read so far, that is nothing to be alarmed about with this transmission...?

 

[VernDiesel]

Ramit355 unless you can post your scale slip I'm betting you have never set your TV TT weight distribution up via scale results. If not you should try it. You might be shockingly impressed with how much more stable your rig can be. No chastisement here just try it.

I believe factory transmission temp warning light comes on at 212 degrees. 398,000 miles transporting TTs with my 8 speed knock on wood. Four Fluid changes now. Its a great trans but some of them do run warm. And yes I don't second guess the engineers I use the tow haul when towing anything substantial.


EDIT tbaker65.. "Failing to prepare is preparing to fail" I like it! What more appropriate when posting in a towing section.

 

[mfifield01]

The 8 speed temperature doesn't vary much. I run tow/haul mode. Depending on terrain, I will cancel 8th and sometimes 7th. I do see hot engine oil temps in mine.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

 

[tbaker65]

"Failing to prepare is preparing to fail" I like it! What more appropriate when posting in a towing section.

I stole it from a Kareem Abdul Jabbar interview where he said it was one of his coach's (John Wooden) favorite saying. John Wooden stole it from someone else I believe... I like it too - I keep it where I can see it to remind myself...

 

[MasonD21]

So, I have a question regarding WDH's. Do I need one? How do I know if I need one?

As stated earlier in the thread, I have a camper (8000lbs). My truck is a power wagon. When I hook up the truck and trailer, load the girlfriend and kids and the dog with a full tank of gas, the truck sits level with maybe just a tad of rake angle left (about 1/2 inch higher in the rear than the front). I'm still about 2,000 lbs away from my GCWR. But someone said a WDH helps with sway, and as I said before, that's probably my biggest worry when traveling.

Should I still use a WDH? Would it give me any benefit?

I've never used one or set it up, but I've seen them make huge impacts on other people's rigs.

I should point out that I don't currently have any issues with sway under high winds, but I'm always interested in improving for safety/emergencies.

 

[tbaker65]

Quick reply from my phone, yes use a wdh esp at 8k... I never used one and bought my curt for under 200 and set it up myself...

 

[mfifield01]

So, I have a question regarding WDH's. Do I need one? How do I know if I need one?

As stated earlier in the thread, I have a camper (8000lbs). My truck is a power wagon. When I hook up the truck and trailer, load the girlfriend and kids and the dog with a full tank of gas, the truck sits level with maybe just a tad of rake angle left (about 1/2 inch higher in the rear than the front). I'm still about 2,000 lbs away from my GCWR. But someone said a WDH helps with sway, and as I said before, that's probably my biggest worry when traveling.

Should I still use a WDH? Would it give me any benefit?

I've never used one or set it up, but I've seen them make huge impacts on other people's rigs.

I should point out that I don't currently have any issues with sway under high winds, but I'm always interested in improving for safety/emergencies.

It will put some of the weight back to on the front axle of the truck. It should drive and handle a lot better. Considering you are probably at or over your GVWR (payload is 1500 lbs or less), it would be good to have.

 

[MasonD21]

I'm about 300lbs away from my payload, according to our little truck stop scale in town, but it doesn't tell me the individual weights per axle. It would be nice to know those individual values.

 

[mfifield01]

I'm about 300lbs away from my payload, according to our little truck stop scale in town, but it doesn't tell me the individual weights per axle. It would be nice to know those individual values.

If you can find a CAT scale, you can get all of the numbers with one pass. It will show front axle, rear axle, and trailer axle weights all at once. My guess is that your hitch weight is near 1100-1200 lbs. That would leave you about 300-400 lbs for people, fuel, and anything else in the truck/bed.

I'm way under on GCWR (3000 lbs under) and well under on GAWR. I am really close to my GVWR fully loaded.

 

[VernDiesel]

Copied this from another forum. Half ton truck max axles 3,900, max tow 10,150, CVWR 15,650, GVWR 6,900

Unloaded truck
steer 3320
drive 2340
GVW 5660


wet TH 7500 driver 200 & WD
steer 3340
drive 3320
GVW 6660

TH 6700

CVW 13360

Meets specs and will be stable. TW is 800 as seen by TV axles. 800 divided by 7500 = 10.67 percent. Still add passengers & to bed load and it quickly exceeds GVWR although that normally to a point positively affects stability.


wet TH 7500 driver 200 poor WD
steer 2920
drive 4060
GVW 6980

TH 6380

CVW 13360

Slightly over drive axle and GVWR. TW is 1120 as seen by TV axles. Joined rig not as stable despite having more TW. 1120 divided by 7500 = 14.9 percent


From what I've seen you do need to keep 10 percent as a minimum TW percentage. When TW percentage of TH becomes too light it allows for sway. That said its normally more difficult to get down near 10 than it is to be well above it. 10 to 15 percent TW should be good to help resist sway. Flat square box nose may need more TW percentage than round trailer or even just round nose on windy days.

Regardless you still need good WD between drive and steer with wet steer weight at least matching unloaded steer weight. Also to a lesser degree more weight on TV helps with stability. Better to be minimally above GVWR than to not have enough TW.

In fact I've found when TV scaled axle weights match or exceeds the TT/TH scaled axle weight its more safe and stable in wind curves stopping even if it exceeds gvwr as long as all other weights are in spec including CVWR. No tail wagging the dog. Not recommending or telling anyone to do anything here just sharing my experience.

 

[Rader]

So, I have a question regarding WDH's. Do I need one? How do I know if I need one?

As stated earlier in the thread, I have a camper (8000lbs). My truck is a power wagon. When I hook up the truck and trailer, load the girlfriend and kids and the dog with a full tank of gas, the truck sits level with maybe just a tad of rake angle left (about 1/2 inch higher in the rear than the front). I'm still about 2,000 lbs away from my GCWR. But someone said a WDH helps with sway, and as I said before, that's probably my biggest worry when traveling.

Should I still use a WDH? Would it give me any benefit?

I've never used one or set it up, but I've seen them make huge impacts on other people's rigs.

I should point out that I don't currently have any issues with sway under high winds, but I'm always interested in improving for safety/emergencies.

Some trailers are prone to sway other never sway under any circumstance. If a person owns a trailer that never sways there is not a good reason to waste money adding sway control devises. If a person has a truck with rear springs that are stiff enough that the truck is not sagging in the rear with the trailer attached there is not a good reason to redistribute weight to the front. Actually transferring weight to the front of a pickup can be counterproductive because the front is typically considerably heavier than the rear on pickups. My 4X4 long wheelbase Ram 2500 is a case in point, it has extremely stiff rear springs, it is high in the rear even with a trailer on the hitch, it is also has lousy traction in 2WD because it does not have enough weight in the rear so weight on the hitch actually helps traction and rear wheel grip in general.

A word about different types of weight distribution hitches. Be aware that some types are not designed to control trailer sway they just redistribute weight. By the same token there is mechanical devises designed to control trailer sway that do not redistribute weight, https://www.harborfreight.com/trailer-sway-control-kit-96462.html

Some brands package the two combined for load plus sway control. Another design several manufactures sell are mechanically different and have both load and sway control built in, an example is Equal-i-Zer hitch. https://www.equalizerhitch.com/how-equalizer-works#4-point-sway-control

 

[VernDiesel]

Radar I have a different viewpoint and experience with that. Just because you are not noticing trailer sway does not mean there is no good reason to use a WDH. A more equal weight distribution between the drive and steer axle is more stability. It is a certainty of physics. In fact the Mfgs all recommend a wdh be used when trailer weights exceed 5k. The manufacturers actually set the suspension up to help contend with a front weight bias as to the unloaded weight of the truck and for better braking. When the front axle is lifted and the back axle weight greatly exceeds the front axle you get an unstable truck and trailer that can't stop or handle well. This is why its common to see a rolled truck and TT backwards upside down and in the ditch with debris littering the road after they tried to emergency swerve around someone who started to pull out in front of them.

In fact the post above yours if you didn't take the time to read it carefully is the same truck and trailer before and after WD. It is not an extreme example but If you blind folded rode in or drove it before and after you might be shocked at the difference in stability. Semi bow wave, wind, down hill curves, slick roads the difference can be dramatic even life saving. 398,000 miles on my 2014 ED transporting Airstreams other TTs and boats from manufacturers to dealerships. Mostly Ohio Indiana across the windy planes and over the moutains to all over the west coast 12 months a year. Doing it commercially I have to go through scales houses, mostly they are concerned with axle weights. Prior I did it with semi trucks where I slide and set the trailer axles in order to meet DOT axle requirements not just for weight but distribution not because it changes their fees but because it makes the vehicle safe to be on the road.

The first link for the add on friction bar is obsolete tech but still an improvement to old existing WDHs. The second link with Equalizer WDH has built in sway control this or any of the others similar to it will tell you some version of the same things I am trying to convey here.

 

[xracer]

After reading many posts here, I've starting towing horse trailers using my then new 1982 Dodge 4 dr 1 ton dually with 4 spd and 360, which I still own today (although it sits in the back yard). Top speed 55 mph and no A/C. Oh those were the days. 11 mpg empty or loaded, didn't matter. Overkill? Heck yeah, but 1/2 tons back then couldn't handle much. We're living in a different time. Those thinking modern 1/2 tons can't tow are living in the past IMO. Just like when electronic ignition at the race tracks and the hardliners swore they'd never swap out their dual point distributors. Or synthetic oil was "unproven". Blah blah.

My daughter barrel racers all over Michigan, Ohio, Illinois and Indiana. She has a Exiss SS306 3 horse trailer with an extension on the hitch. It is a goose neck. What do we haul with? A 2016 RAM 1500 5.7 Hemi with 3:21 gears and 8 spd trans. Before anyone slams that, do the math and you'll discover my current truck has a lower 1st gear than a 3.92 and 6 spd trans. All fluid temps are normal and the truck rarely downshifts; it just pulls.

The truck has over 50k on it now without any problems. It gets 11-12 mpg loaded. We normally haul 2 horses but can handle 3.

Now this may cause a flame war, but I'm going to say it. At the shows we get strange looks while hunting for a parking spot passing the dozens and hundreds of 2500's 3500's and bigger trucks. Hundreds of trucks/trailer combinations. Obviously the really big trailers need really big trucks, but you'll see several 1500 RAM's at the shows pulling GN trailers. Occasionally we'll talk about our travels and setups. Many use air bags (I don't) but that is dependent on how much the truck squats. That is the weak link in a 1500 RAM. I will post a pic if I can find one, but it rides level enough and the trailer does too. It pulls straight and I just bought a set of Michelins for the year.

What won't you see towing a 3 horse GN trailer? A 1/2 ton Ford or Chevy. At least I don't see them. GM upped their 5.3 to offer a badly needed 6.2L engine, but I've been doing this long enough to know the 5.3 is a pig and it doesn't matter what tow rating they have. The Fords can't hack it either. The 5.7 Hemi just works, it's a beast.

 

[Rader]

Radar I have a different viewpoint and experience with that. Just because you are not noticing trailer sway does not mean there is no good reason to use a WDH. A more equal weight distribution between the drive and steer axle is more stability. It is a certainty of physics. In fact the Mfgs all recommend a wdh be used when trailer weights exceed 5k. The manufacturers actually set the suspension up to help contend with a front weight bias as to the unloaded weight of the truck and for better braking. When the front axle is lifted and the back axle weight greatly exceeds the front axle you get an unstable truck and trailer that can't stop or handle well. This is why its common to see a rolled truck and TT backwards upside down and in the ditch with debris littering the road after they tried to emergency swerve around someone who started to pull out in front of them.

Respectfully read what I said more carefully. I did NOT say "if you did not notice sway there is no good reason to use a WDH". I said "If a person owns a trailer that never sways there is not a good reason to waste money adding sway control devises."

Also note that I quoted the person the information in my post was intended for, it was specific to his ride. He has a power wagon, 6.4L 4X4 it is vastly different than your cut & paste example. PW's curb weighs over 7,000 and the front is over 1,200 heavier than the rear so no reason to transfer more weight to the front. The example of poor traction in 2wd I gave was my 2500 4X4 that is a diesel. My TT hitch weight is between 750 and 800 lbs, it's Club cab 8' box long wheel base so maybe another 1,000 on rear axle. Transferring some of that to the front would be foolish because empty the rear is light and lacks traction.

If you read all my post in this thread you would know I own an Equal-i-zer brand WDH and I did use it when towing with my WJ Grand Cherokee so I am more than a little versed in it's use. I have been using it on my 1500 4X4 EcoDiesel not because 800 lbs is lifting the front wheels off the ground but because I leveled the truck so any load make people hate my aftermarket bright low beams. Also of interest for winter driving I got stuck turning my TT around in my yard in snow, I disconnected the WDH and with the extra weigh on the rear wheels helping out the rear limited slip I got unstuck without chaining up.

We do disagree on brakes. Pickups are designed to carry a payload in the box, I bought my first brand new 3/4 ton PU in 1968, it was a GMC with a 396 C.I. engine and auto trans, that was also before antilock brakes. Didn't matter what brand of truck, empty we had to be careful during emergency stops without a load in the box because the rear wheels would tend to lock and slide before well before the fronts locked. When anti locks came on scene many trucks came with just antilock brakes on the rear axle because of this. Most PUs have 4 wheel anti lock now so braking is not something I would lose sleep over. (EDIT) another little detail that should not be overlooked is when towing a trailer they usually have brakes if larger than a small utility trailer.