Towing an RV Trailer

[tbaker65]

My 2 cents: All of the information/advice posted here by people with experience is valuable, whether it conflicts with others' views or not. The adage "If some is good, more is better" definitely applies here.

Everybody's situation/setup is unique and reading through these threads, one has to take that in consideration and determine how/where the information applies to their own. Me, I'll be towing a 2800# (dry) camper with a 1500 capable of towing 5 tons; I'm equipped with a WDH, brake controller, sway bar, etc. 95% of the time, I'll only be towing distances of between 15-40 miles or so during the daytime during summer months, in moderate traffic without a lot of hills, and then be set up for 2 weeks at a time sometimes. So I should be off to a pretty good start with following advice on here.

Others reading these will be towing in much more challenging circumstances and the different views/advice is even more important/valuable. IMO, there is no such thing as "bad information" when it comes to this - people reading these posts carefully should be able to sort out the good info and where it applies to their specific situation - and erroneous info is critiqued by those with the knowledge and properly corrected... it's all good.

From a newb, thanks for all of your posts... keep up the good work!

 

[GsRAM]

My 2 cents: All of the information/advice posted here by people with experience is valuable, whether it conflicts with others' views or not. The adage "If some is good, more is better" definitely applies here.

Everybody's situation/setup is unique and reading through these threads, one has to take that in consideration and determine how/where the information applies to their own. Me, I'll be towing a 2800# (dry) camper with a 1500 capable of towing 5 tons; I'm equipped with a WDH, brake controller, sway bar, etc. 95% of the time, I'll only be towing distances of between 15-40 miles or so during the daytime during summer months, in moderate traffic without a lot of hills, and then be set up for 2 weeks at a time sometimes. So I should be off to a pretty good start with following advice on here.

Others reading these will be towing in much more challenging circumstances and the different views/advice is even more important/valuable. IMO, there is no such thing as "bad information" when it comes to this - people reading these posts carefully should be able to sort out the good info and where it applies to their specific situation - and erroneous info is critiqued by those with the knowledge and properly corrected... it's all good.

From a newb, thanks for all of your posts... keep up the good work!

Agree 100%. We're fortunate as a group to have experienced folks here who are willing to share that experience to help others. Your never to old to learn something new.

 

[Rader]

Rader, I shared my examples for the benefit of towing newbs to know their axle loading for more stability and braking instead of other bad advice they often get on forums. So when Mason asked about adding a wdh for his 8,000 pound camper and you replied with "there is no good reason to waste money adding" (a wdh) I had to correct this because it was not sound advice and counter to what I am trying to help people understand for themselves for the safety of their families instead of relying on often dubious advice from others.

If after reading this thread what you got out of it was that you are afraid to tow with a 1500 as its too delicate to tow with well no one suggested that. Read it again I guess. Again no one was attacking you or making fun of you. I myself own an ED and tow lots and to its legal limits. In fact its how I learned to help the newbs..

Vern the last time in this very same thread that you misquoted my post #77....see your post #78, and my post #80 where I asked you to "Respectfully read what I said more carefully." Well my friend once again you misquote the very SAME post that you misquoted last time. This time you add insult to injury by posting virtually the same straw man argument you used last time based on YOUR misquote.

Not only that, this time you left out the first part of the sentence needed for context then you change the words "sway control devises" to (a wdh).

From MY post #77 "If a person owns a trailer that never sways there is not a good reason to waste money adding sway control devises."

VERN's post #99, "there is no good reason to waste money adding" (a wdh)

Mr. Vern you took the liberty of editing MY sentence and the liberty of changing my words. You change the words "sway control devises" to (a wdh). I asked you nicely the last time you misquoted me to read more carefully, you ignore my plea and misquote the very same thing a second time. No one likes to be misquote let alone have a person misquote them then use the misquote to build a straw man argument claiming they are wrong.

My second point in post #77 was sometimes trucks like the HD long wheel base 3/4 ton I included as an example are light in the rear without load so transferring weight to the front is not necessary and could be counterproductive. For accuracy I include the entire part of post #77 referenced.

"Some trailers are prone to sway other never sway under any circumstance. If a person owns a trailer that never sways there is not a good reason to waste money adding sway control devises. If a person has a truck with rear springs that are stiff enough that the truck is not sagging in the rear with the trailer attached there is not a good reason to redistribute weight to the front. Actually transferring weight to the front of a pickup can be counterproductive because the front is typically considerably heavier than the rear on pickups. My 4X4 long wheelbase Ram 2500 is a case in point, it has extremely stiff rear springs, it is high in the rear even with a trailer on the hitch, it is also has lousy traction in 2WD because it does not have enough weight in the rear so weight on the hitch actually helps traction and rear wheel grip in general."

Figuring that out didn't take an advanced degree in physics, all it typically takes is a little common sense and an IQ number above average room temperature.

Concerning my 1500.... There is another thing that seldom gets mentioned but should, the mechanical differences in front and rear suspension is one reason I do not mind and even prefer a few hundred more lbs load on the rear axle than front when I am towing. Despite the claimed 3900 rating for 4X4 front axles my background in in mechanical fields makes me believe that even though the front and rear axles are rated the same the solid rear axle can more happily carry weight than the front independent with can with it many moving parts.

Vern sadly, actually amusingly to me you even took exception to my closing thought that was meant as a joke. The funny thing is at first I posted a different closing line, it was up for about a day so before I edited it, some probably read it. I actually edited/change it because I thought it might offend some of my young friends and some of guys in my age group might not get the joke. As a fail safe when I edited it the second time I even added LOL as a tip off it was an attempt at humor. Oh well humor is tough especially in this day and age. Now people are programed to take offense even if you just say good morning. So with that in mind I will post both versions and advise that if anyone is offended I am terribly sorry about that LOL.

First version..."Oh well enough reminiscing, now I have a 2015 Ram 1500 Ecodiesel with every idiot proof gadget imaginable, I have every tow accessory money can buy, my travel trailer has sat TV with the Dish everything package. All that remains to be done to move into the modern era is to be sure my phone is sync to U-Connect, shave off all my body hair, don a pink P cap, hookup the trailer and hit the road."

Changed version...."Oh well enough reminiscing, now I have a 2015 Ram 1500 Ecodiesel with every idiot proof gadget imaginable, I have every tow accessory money can buy, my travel trailer has sat TV with the Dish everything package. But after reading this thread I.m afraid the 1500 is delicate and it will break if I use it LOL."

 

[MasonD21]

I'm going to chime in here and say even though I haven't been to the CAT scales yet to determine front, rear, and trailer axle weights individually, I decided to not even worry about it. My truck is 4400 pounds on the front axle and 3200 pounds on the rear axle... and I still have 1/2 inch high in the rear with my trailer attached.

Even if I don't know my exact axle weights F/R/TT, I know for a fact my trailer isn't putting down 1200lbs of tongue weight, so I know I'm still light in the rear vs the steer axles.

All this to say, I am not going to use a WDH, but I am still playing with the idea of a friction based sway control device. But then I'm arguing with myself over that also.

At this point, I'm going to just tow my trailer the way I've been for the last year or two.
I've got a pretty darn good stable setup and my trailer doesnt even weigh what my truck weighs.

 

[mfifield01]

I'm going to chime in here and say even though I haven't been to the CAT scales yet to determine front, rear, and trailer axle weights individually, I decided to not even worry about it. My truck is 4400 pounds on the front axle and 3200 pounds on the rear axle... and I still have 1/2 inch high in the rear with my trailer attached.

Even if I don't know my exact axle weights F/R/TT, I know for a fact my trailer isn't putting down 1200lbs of tongue weight, so I know I'm still light in the rear vs the steer axles.

All this to say, I am not going to use a WDH, but I am still playing with the idea of a friction based sway control device. But then I'm arguing with myself over that also.

At this point, I'm going to just tow my trailer the way I've been for the last year or two.
I've got a pretty darn good stable setup and my trailer doesnt even weigh what my truck weighs.

For the tongue weight, it is about 50% more than the actual number on the rear. That 50% is taken off the front. As an example. Let's say you have 1000lbs of tongue weight. In your case, your front axle will be around 3900 lbs and rear axle will be around 4700 lbs. This is something I didn't realize until I got mine weighed at a CAT scale.

 

[MasonD21]

Kudos, that was a very easy way to put that into perspective!

 

[Rader]

I'm going to chime in here and say even though I haven't been to the CAT scales yet to determine front, rear, and trailer axle weights individually, I decided to not even worry about it. My truck is 4400 pounds on the front axle and 3200 pounds on the rear axle... and I still have 1/2 inch high in the rear with my trailer attached.

Even if I don't know my exact axle weights F/R/TT, I know for a fact my trailer isn't putting down 1200lbs of tongue weight, so I know I'm still light in the rear vs the steer axles.

All this to say, I am not going to use a WDH, but I am still playing with the idea of a friction based sway control device. But then I'm arguing with myself over that also.

At this point, I'm going to just tow my trailer the way I've been for the last year or two.
I've got a pretty darn good stable setup and my trailer doesn't even weigh what my truck weighs.

Mason for comparison.... My1500 EcoDiesel 4X4 with front winch&bumper, a full tank of diesel, half a tank of DEF and two passengers in the front seat = 3,860 on the front axle. When I weigh it.... It also had a cross bed tool box that is full to the top with winch recovery gear, spare winch line straps etc plus tools. Also at the very back of the bed just inside the tail gate I had four sets of heavy truck chains actually two sets for the 35s on my JK and the sets for the 35s on the 1500, so about 80-100lbs of tire chains. The rear weighed 2,800 = Gross total weight 6,660. Without the chains at the rear of the bed the rear would be about 2,700 on the rear axle and total 6,560lbs.

It tows excellently without my noisy creaking squeaking clunking WDH, the only reason I have used it is the rear springs are about the right rate for a Subaru so the rear goes down like the Titanic and at night my headlights probably blind the guys up in the space station. When I leveled the truck that stiffened the front it's fine. But as mentioned the rear springs to darn soft, so I know I will be up grading to higher rate and hopefully a few inch taller rear springs. I had that same problem on my Grand Cherokee, I believe the factory tow package springs were 180 lbs/in, the upgrade springs I installed were 240 lbs/in, truthfully they didn't ride much stiffer or effect articulation offroad even with the rear sway bar disconnected but they sure carried a load better.

 

[MasonD21]

But as mentioned the rear springs to darn soft

See, I have this problem with my power wagon, but the truck is designed that way. I specifically bought the PW for the offroad prowess (I've always been a wrangler guy, until I decided I wanted to tow a camper instead of sleeping on the ground...). The truck's tow capacity is only around 9900 max (with my configuration). But with my 6000 camper, fuel, passengers, safety equipment/misc gear, I'm right around 14350. GCWR is 17.5k.

However, even with the "soft version 3/4-ton coils", I still have that extra 1/2-inch in the rear.

I definitely feel like I bought the perfect truck for what I want to use it for (other than I HATE when it gets dirty inside, cause I bought the Lux pack ). Maybe if I had 200 extra pounds to throw on the tongue of the truck I'd drop that extra 1/2 inch lol, but then I might be over payload. Of course, now, as I write this, I'm thinking I could probably shift weight around from the truck to the trailer... but why make my trailer heavier if I don't have to? That's something I don't have any answers for.

I'll have to stand outside and scratch my head a bit on this before I talk any more.

The answer is CAT scale. I just haven't done it yet. lol.

I will say it definitely feels stable and strong. I just don't think I'll need the WDH. Eventually I'll have a slip to see actual numbers.

 

[Rader]

See, I have this problem with my power wagon, but the truck is designed that way. I specifically bought the PW for the offroad prowess (I've always been a wrangler guy, until I decided I wanted to tow a camper instead of sleeping on the ground...). The truck's tow capacity is only around 9900 max (with my configuration). But with my 6000 camper, fuel, passengers, safety equipment/misc gear, I'm right around 14350. GCWR is 17.5k.

However, even with the "soft version 3/4-ton coils", I still have that extra 1/2-inch in the rear.

I definitely feel like I bought the perfect truck for what I want to use it for (other than I HATE when it gets dirty inside, cause I bought the Lux pack ). Maybe if I had 200 extra pounds to throw on the tongue of the truck I'd drop that extra 1/2 inch lol, but then I might be over payload. Of course, now, as I write this, I'm thinking I could probably shift weight around from the truck to the trailer... but why make my trailer heavier if I don't have to? That's something I don't have any answers for.

I'll have to stand outside and scratch my head a bit on this before I talk any more.

The answer is CAT scale. I just haven't done it yet. lol.

I will say it definitely feels stable and strong. I just don't think I'll need the WDH. Eventually I'll have a slip to see actual numbers.

Same here on the Jeeps, my first one was a 2A, I bought it used and since have owned many models in between up to my 16 JKU plus from 04 up a number of lifted and locked Toy and Tacoma trucks.

After we had suffered enough sleeping on the ground.....At times we have switched back and forth between TTs that I could drop then use the pickup for trails and 3/4 ton trucks with slide in campers and a tow bar for the Jeep. Guaranteed the TT and off road worthy PUs were the handiest so you made a wise choice.

Say....mfifield01 posted a good way to get in the ball park on weight transfer and 99% of people would rather be in the ball park than to fool around with a pencil or calculator. But one formula in easy to understand terms floats around on some down under forums is below if your axle to ball is 60" WB 149 with 1000lb HW weight transfer would be around 400lbs. REAR OVERHANG ÷ WHEELBASE X BALL WEIGHT.

 

[tbaker65]

No one likes to be misquote let alone have a person misquote them then use the misquote to build a straw man argument claiming they are wrong.

While I don't want to "take sides" or get in the middle of your two's conversation on this (I get in enough trouble on my own), I'm using your quote for a 'general' reference in my reply.

Agreed on this. You may have read one of my prior conversations, in this thread I believe, where I too felt compelled to write out a lengthy defense - it's not fun to have to take the time to repeat and defend, quote things you've already posted because your words have been twisted...

It's one thing if someone simply misreads your post and makes an honest mistake (we're all human subject to error). It's another when someone misquotes you intentionally with malice.

I guess it's just the nature of things when it comes to conversations on these forums. We'll get into disagreements, etc., which can descend from there. And as I've said before, if the end justifies the means - a lot of good, productive info and help comes out of these forums...

Cheers!

 

[Ratket]

.... SO you are a towing/weight expert are you... let me sing you the song of my people...

http://www.ramforum.com/threads/1500-most-weight-towed.117624/

 

[barr0208]

If you don't think it matters towing heavy and long with a 1500 just get in a 60 mph cross wind and you will find out what is in control of your setup. Been there.

yes that's true just the other day I watched a video on the news about an 18 wheeler flip over and its bigger than one ton dually so use something else. if there is high winds don't tow.

 

[sandawilliams]

yes that's true just the other day I watched a video on the news about an 18 wheeler flip over and its bigger than one ton dually so use something else. if there is high winds don't tow.

Yesterday we had high winds in southern Colorado and there were many semi's and rv's flipped over on their sides going down I-25. State patrol finally closed the highway to clean up the mess and get the lanes back open.

 

[Rader]

I-90 at Livingston MT is often closed to semi-trailer and TTs because strong crosswind in that stretch of highway blows them over. At one time they installed wind mills along I-90 just east of Livingston, problem was wind to strong so they moved them.

 

[Mcgruff]

Someone asked if 2500 guys get similar crap from 3500 guys. Yes they do. I used to have an F250 CC 6.0 Powerstroke with the camper package. I was told in a forum that 250/2500s are “grocery getters” for soccer moms who think it’s cool to pick up the kids from band practice in a diesel. It’s all relative. Use the manufacturers specs, be careful and take take your time. Speed can kill no matter what you’re towing.

And just for fun:

 

[tbaker65]

It’s all relative. Use the manufacturers specs, be careful and take take your time.

I took this pic the other day at my local Home Depot just for 2500 guys. I'm pretty sure this dude was getting a heavy load of concrete mix and blocks... So when you get right down to it, it's not even the specs you have to be attentive to - it's mostly in your mind. It's more about balls than specs... So the new rule is, If you think you can tow it, you probably can.

 

[pugfug]

The Power Wagon tows like a dream....

 

[Ramit355]

I took this pic the other day at my local Home Depot just for 2500 guys. I'm pretty sure this dude was getting a heavy load of concrete mix and blocks... So when you get right down to it, it's not even the specs you have to be attentive to - it's mostly in your mind. It's more about balls than specs... So the new rule is, If you think you can tow it, you probably can.

View attachment 123826

Reminds me of my dad in the early 60's he would pull a trailer on the back of his caddy with the front wheels walking!