Towing

[yrraljguthrie]

There is a lot of discussion and opinion about the max towing capacity of a Ram 1500. This is just my thoughts and I welcome any disagreement.
I note that the max towing for any Ram 1500 is 12300 lbs and that's with the 5.7 etorque engine and no doubt some other requirements. So far as I can see the only difference between a Ram that will tow the max and all the others are the rear axle ratio, a tow package, and the weight of the vehicle. The tow package can be dispensed with if towing a 5th wheel or gooseneck. That leaves only the axle ratio. And it seems to me that if one is willing to use lower gears than the 8th. and slow down from 75-80 that axle ratio makes no difference. Others have stated that the 3.92 towing in 8th gear is virtually the same as towing with the 3.21 in 7th gear. Requiring the same power output from the engine.
There might be some insurance issues if one tried to tow more than the max stated for the vehicle, but realistically I can't see a problem as I've stated it. It just seems like "how fast do you want to tow". No issue with safety.

 

[Tulecreeper]

This chart...

 

[SniperDroid]

Didn't see 12,300lbs on any of the vehicles in that chart... Remember the guy that broke his frame in half? Took him a season or two to realize how dumb he was.

 

[Tulecreeper]

Didn't see 12,300lbs on any of the vehicles in that chart... Remember the guy that broke his frame in half? Took him a season or two to realize how dumb he was.

I think you're talking about the guy who broke down in Mexico. That didn't have to do with towing capacity. He had his cargo/payload capacity way overloaded.

 

[gwilburn]

Here we go again...

 

[SniperDroid]

I think you're talking about the guy who broke down in Mexico. That didn't have to do with towing capacity. He had his cargo/payload capacity way overloaded.

The point was simply that if you don't pay attention to YOUR trucks max towing and cargo weights, you are asking for problems.

 

[Tulecreeper]

The point was simply that if you don't pay attention to YOUR trucks max towing and cargo weights, you are asking for problems.

Truer words were never spoken.

 

[yrraljguthrie]

There are a bunch of farmers I know who haul trailers with horses, cows, and hay. I don't think they weigh anything before they tow it. I don't remember seeing any trucks broken in half. I believe most limits are reasonable, but are also written so a lot of folks are going to spend more money upgrading. I towed in the 70's with a half-ton with a 350 engine. The engines now are far and away more powerful. During the gas crisis of the early 70's, that thing was downgraded to around 200 hp. They didn't change the tow rating.
I'm not saying load the pickup down and break it. I meant to say I don't think there is a lot of difference in the realistic towing capacity of any half-ton. Framewise they are the same.

 

[Rockyw]

I have the 3.92s in my 1500 Hemi towing a 32 foot camper. I tows great but I don't tow over 60 mph. First faster is not safe and for a camper faster beats the crap out of the camper. This is my 2nd like RAM, I get 13 mpg towing/

 

[brian42]

The frame is not supporting the load as much as transferring the load out from the mounting point. Brakes, suspension, etc., are what plays the major role in limiting factor(s).

I thought the "Max Tow" package had a different rear axle but I may be wrong (don't have the gumption to look that one up).

Max tow rating is only a fictional number of the maximum amount you can pull with the towing assembly (truck) ignoring every other weight and rating of the truck. There is no legality to it other than marketing and bragging rights. The only truck that can even come close to that (legally) is going to be a stripped down Tradesman with the Max Tow package.

Payload, while in the 3/4 ton range, is not as much as you think when you load you, gas, stuff, family (optional ), and tongue weight. Figuring 10-15% of the trailer's weight on the tongue for a bumper-pull (probably the most common for a 1/2 ton) and you run out of legal room quick.

You reach GWVR a lot quicker than you think and, even then, you're bumping GCWR shortly after that depending on your RV trailer selection.

I could "only" tow 8100 lbs with my 3.21 gears but, if you do the math, you don't do much better (if at all) with the increased towing capacity with the 3.92.

Obviously there are plenty of people that go by their gut or just ignore the numbers and go for it. I've seen plenty of toy haulers absolutely overloading the tow rig, in bad condition, and no tow mirrors. Can it be done...sure. Will it bite you...maybe. Heaven forbid something happens and you end up in court will you be able to defend it...definitely not.

Everybody's budget is different so there are plenty of ways to "get it done", some safer than others. I prefer to stay in the numbers and leave a margin of safety/error when I towed. The only reason I went to a 1500 is because I wasn't going to tow much more than a U-Haul trailer every now and then. If I was still in the towing game I would have stayed in an HD truck and found one that was in my budget.

Just my .02 YMMV

 

[yrraljguthrie]

Again my intent was to suggest there is not much if any difference in towing between the 3.21 and the 3.92 since there are 8 gears to shift down and pull.

 

[brian42]

The effective gearing between the two trucks is pretty similar.

The middle gearing is effectively the same and the 3.92 truck has an "extra" lower gear to get the load rolling where the 3.21 truck has an "extra" OD gear (which you won't get to when towing).

More than you ever wanted to know:

https://**************/community/th...imate-guide-to-3-21-vs-3-92-axle-ratio.16986/

Replace the asterisks with 5thgenrams[dot]com.

Or you can Google 5thgenrams[dot]com an ultimate engineer's guide to 3.21 vs 3.92 axle ration

For some reason this forum doesn't like references to other forums.

 

[SniperDroid]

Again my intent was to suggest there is not much if any difference in towing between the 3.21 and the 3.92 since there are 8 gears to shift down and pull.

If you would check the rating charts that were posted, you will not find any 1500 with the Towing weight you suggested in your original post. I had an old 2006 F250 Diesel, and it was rated for only 12,500. My 2019 RAM 2500 6.4 gasser is rated for over 14,000 lbs. The tech has improved, but on many of the 1500, if not all, the brakes, wheels, axels, suspension, and frames are still smaller and lighter. You will be able to tow any weight you like, until something gives up. It's a matter of time and what goes first. Pay little attention to me, I'm just an old guy with a smart phone. The salesmen know way more than me.

 

[yrraljguthrie]

12300 was wrong, nice of you to point that out. That doesn't change my intent. There is just very little difference between the 3.21 and the 3.92 performance-wise because the transmission can be shifted down one gear.

 

[SniperDroid]

12300 was wrong, nice of you to point that out. That doesn't change my intent. There is just very little difference between the 3.21 and the 3.92 performance-wise because the transmission can be shifted down one gear.

Yes, and if you use the Tow/Haul mode, it will handle that for you.

 

[ramffml]

12300 was wrong, nice of you to point that out. That doesn't change my intent. There is just very little difference between the 3.21 and the 3.92 performance-wise because the transmission can be shifted down one gear.

The effective gearing between the two trucks is pretty similar.

The middle gearing is effectively the same and the 3.92 truck has an "extra" lower gear to get the load rolling where the 3.21 truck has an "extra" OD gear (which you won't get to when towing).

More than you ever wanted to know:

https://**************/community/th...imate-guide-to-3-21-vs-3-92-axle-ratio.16986/

Replace the asterisks with 5thgenrams[dot]com.

Or you can Google 5thgenrams[dot]com an ultimate engineer's guide to 3.21 vs 3.92 axle ration

For some reason this forum doesn't like references to other forums.

Yes, you have the right idea there with the gear ratios. We have discussed this ad nausem on this forum as well but it appears to be a hard thing for a few to wrap their minds around.

3.92 gives you 3000 pound increase! lol. ok if you're only going 0 to 15 all the time then sure, but if you're towing in the city or freeway there is no increase in torque available.

 

[18CrewDually]

The 3:21 ring & pinion ratio increases load and stress on drivetrain from the rear axle U-joint all the way forward to the crankshaft, in comparison to 3:92s.
There's no way around that whether its 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, or 10 spd.
It's a gamble that may not be negligible.

And the farmer comments above reminds me of growing up on the farm and the last thing said before pulling out of the fields to head to the barn. 2 things were said.
That ain't going nowhere. And We're not going that far.
Couple miles running overloaded and driving the country overloaded will have different outcomes in longevity.

 

[dsherman26]

The 3:21 ring & pinion ratio increases load and stress on drivetrain from the rear axle U-joint all the way forward to the crankshaft, in comparison to 3:92s.
There's no way around that whether its 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, or 10 spd.
It's a gamble that may not be negligible.

This. The 3.21 does not have the mechanical advantage the 3.92 has, so it's going to require more torque to move the same weight. Maybe from the driver's perspective there's little difference using the analogy that 7th gear in one axle ratio is virtually the same as 8th in the other, but in reality the transmission has to deliver more torque, which means it's harder on the clutches as they engage or disengage while shifting. Also, while the power being delivered by the engine may be the same in either case, the motor mounts have to counteract that additional torque. In short, it's harder on the drivetrain.

 

[barr0208]

This chart...

 

[ramffml]

The 3:21 ring & pinion ratio increases load and stress on drivetrain from the rear axle U-joint all the way forward to the crankshaft, in comparison to 3:92s.

Only in first gear.

And when we're actually towing for miles on end, the 3.92 will want to sit in 7th (or 8th) whereas the 3.21 will want to sit in 6th (or possibly 7th).

I'd rather tow in direct drive vs over drive.

Also we need to be realistic; there are 0 reports of guys blowing ujoints, transmissions, or rear diffs just because they have the 3.21

Lets not invent problems where there are none, these drive trains can take a beating, as long as they're not intentionally abused they will run forever.