Used to love my Ram...now...I dunno..

[Sherman Bird]

. The number of people who were able to maintain their vehicles and did so with competence was fairly small. Many people could not add oil or fill their tires and paid extra for full service stations with attached garages to perform work people would not or could not do in their own.

That was your world. not mine. EVERY father in my neighborhood with a very few exceptions worked on. maintained their own cars to the extent of at least the basics like tune ups, oil changes, cooling system work like water pump/tstat, flush and fill.

Heck, even the man next door to me who had one arm did his own basic maintenance. And WE ALL attended the church services, clubs, we kids played little league sports.... AND we had time to mow our own lawns and do the things I mentioned.

No, people are intrinsically lazy, and don't keep up with things they should. They do not instill working with hands and developing skills in their kids anymore. There is such a huge deficiency in skilled workers today....[/QUOTE]

 

[Tim7139]

That was your world. not mine. EVERY father in my neighborhood with a very few exceptions worked on. maintained their own cars to the extent of at least the basics **** tune ups, oil changes, cooling system work like water pump/tstat, flush and fill.

That was our world, though we may have seen different parts of it.

I accept your observation as truthful and accurate. There can be many explanations for your observations of your neighborhood(s) from diversity of jobs, family stage/status, popularity of hobbies, people who you were were drawn to, societal push to ignore people outside the expected norms, and many other factors.

 

[ajs3]

The rope seals leaked a bit even when new, it was an accepted compromise at the time. They used to place mats under new cars in the show room to catch the oil that dripped, but you'd still get oil marks on the floor. 80's environmental regs about oil leakage at service stations and junk yards seemed to be a catalyst for the better seal options we have available today.

It's easy to romanticize the past, we remember the cars that were great, and forget the mediocre and all but a few examples of the horrible. Back in the day people used to refer to cars as peaches or lemons for a reason, and the push for lemon laws was long and difficult. New cars off the lots would regularly have minor issues like trim coming off, and occasionally major issues like steering wheels come off. You could by a new car that could not do the speed limit up a hill when new with just the driver even before the great power loss that was forced on us in the 80's. Rusting bodies and frames killed many vehicles long before the power trains had a chance to fail.

There were highlights, models you could rebuild almost anything on, parts over engineered so they never seemed to fail.

IHS and registration data shows it was the 80's models that increased average vehicle age on the road and showed an almost doubling of mileage before scrap age trend that so far has continued. Common gripes on customer surveys have shifted from wheels popping off to issues with sat nav.

It's great your grandad's car almost tripped the average mileage life span, but it's the treasured exception.

My grandfather was a master machinist who worked for Republic Aviation here on Long Island. He was also a marine diesel mechanic and expert at vacuum tube radio and television repair. Most of what I know I was taught by him. He'd tell me " if you drive it, fly it, ride it; know how to fix it". I know that flathead was hauled out at least once and brought down the basement to have who knows what done, before my time, but like I said; he knew his stuff. Labor intensive, yes. And yes, you're right about problems with the old cars. And honestly, nothings really changed except when something does go wrong with today's cars it's usually in the thousands of dollars to fix. Not always but mostly. I don't know what a tune-up cost in 1955, I'm not that old. I do know that when I need the spark plugs changed in 2004 F-150, the dealer quoted me anywhere between$750-$1200 depending on how long it took. Well a $125 tool and cost of the plugs and I did it myself for a fraction of the quote.

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[SAM HOYE]

I don' love my ram 1500 any more either. over $4000 dollars of repairs in 50,000 mile.
1st complete brake jog at 25,000 miles found brake pads laying on driveway
2nd tail gate wouldn't stay shut 3 trips to dealer repaired at cost. 2014 year not covered on recall till after. Dealer said more trouble then it's worth to get rebate.
3rd key wouldn't come out of ignition. 1 week in shop. Two control valves on transmission bad, one covered by warranty one not,figure that!!!!
4th And final manifold bolt broken (seams to be ram problem from at least 2008) then they till me pinion seal is leaking $1100 to fix. I am going to replace it myself
for a total cost of $97.68 including tax and one hour my labor.
So ask me if i love my truck
I traded in a chevy Colorado on this truck with 97000 miles. Only normal maintenance ever needed

 

[Sherman Bird]

That was our world, though we may have seen different parts of it.

I accept your observation as truthful and accurate. There can be many explanations for your observations of your neighborhood(s) from diversity of jobs, family stage/status, popularity of hobbies, people who you were were drawn to, societal push to ignore people outside the expected norms, and many other factors.

My grandfather was a master machinist who worked for Republic Aviation here on Long Island. He was also a marine diesel mechanic and expert at vacuum tube radio and television repair. Most of what I know I was taught by him. He'd tell me " if you drive it, fly it, ride it; know how to fix it". I know that flathead was hauled out at least once and brought down the basement to have who knows what done, before my time, but like I said; he knew his stuff. Labor intensive, yes. And yes, you're right about problems with the old cars. And honestly, nothings really changed except when something does go wrong with today's cars it's usually in the thousands of dollars to fix. Not always but mostly. I don't know what a tune-up cost in 1955, I'm not that old. I do know that when I need the spark plugs changed in 2004 F-150, the dealer quoted me anywhere between$750-$1200 depending on how long it took. Well a $125 tool and cost of the plugs and I did it myself for a fraction of the quote.

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Must have been the 5.4L 3-valve with the plugs which break off.

 

[Sherman Bird]

That was our world, though we may have seen different parts of it.

Being as you're a Canadian, I'd say we have seen different "parts" of the world. Maybe we here in my world were more self sufficient than you. We DAMNED sure didn't "ignore" that outside of our reality. Maybe you did, I'll never know.... don't want to either.

 

[IRSmart]

"I also had them service the truck as it was due anyway...including the service AND the steering rack, we're looking at $2400 plus tax"

"So, we are going to have to put on the OEM rack which will cost $1825 instead of the $1625 for the aftermarket."

These two quotes are from the original OP post.
As I said before, an aftermarket rack is $1197.
Obviously someone here is not able to discern the difference between parts cost and TOTAL cost.
Or the obvious markup (hosing) by the dealer on said parts.

I'm done trying to impart the benefits of comprehension.

So I’ll ask again, how is the OP being hosed again in your scenario? In the OP, he states he’s getting additional work done, which (including the steering rack) totals $2,400. The rack itself (including installation) is $1,695 according to his post. The “service” referred to in your first post is for additional services separate from the steering rack replacement. So again, if the part online is (allegedly) $1,197, and they’re charging $1,695 for parts and install, how again is he being “hosed”? Should they just install it at no charge? Let’s assume for the moment that the $1,695 didn’t include labor (which it looks like, according to the wording from the OP, it does). How is marking up a part to make a profit “hosing” someone? Is profit on parts a dirty word? Last I checked, they provide parts and service with a profit margin continue to operate. It’s called running a business.

 

[Dondo]

So I’ll ask again, how is the OP being hosed again in your scenario? In the OP, he states he’s getting additional work done, which (including the steering rack) totals $2,400. The rack itself (including installation) is $1,695 according to his post. The “service” referred to in your first post is for additional services separate from the steering rack replacement. So again, if the part online is (allegedly) $1,197, and they’re charging $1,695 for parts and install, how again is he being “hosed”? Should they just install it at no charge? Let’s assume for the moment that the $1,695 didn’t include labor (which it looks like, according to the wording from the OP, it does). How is marking up a part to make a profit “hosing” someone? Is profit on parts a dirty word? Last I checked, they provide parts and service with a profit margin continue to operate. It’s called running a business.

The part that they eventually put in is listed as $1825. The aftermarket part they originally were going to put in was $1625. Not sure where this number came in, $1197 is the online aftermarket price, which means they tried to mark the price of the part up north of 30%. Then, tried to add another $200 to the price for the OEM until I complained. Then they suddenly dropped back down to the $1625 price, and charged me $637 for labor. I don’t know what the shop rate is (they wouldn’t tell me when I asked). Assuming $125/hr, means it was about a 5 hour job. Seems a bit stretched out, but I can’t exactly call anyone out on that. Crawling under the truck, it honestly didn’t look like it would have been that labor intensive.

I get that the business needs to make money and I try to buy local as much as I can. However, I’m not sure this particular dealer (or service manager) understands that RAM is only as good as the experience people get at the dealership. Since my story has been spread around, my acquaintances around town with FCA products have all pretty much agreed that this particular dealer is something of a dumpster fire. It was bought out by a larger dealer about 5 years ago and my understanding is that most of the people that were considered “good” either left or were moved somewhere else when the dealership was reorganized. My previous dealings aside from service work I guess was with the staff that is now gone.

At this point, I’ve paid the money, the truck is getting worked on again tomorrow for replacing the fuel pressure sensor, and I’ll most likely look at trading it off in the near future. I have no idea what I’ll get, but I’m pretty sure what I won’t get. The more I look around and talk with other RAM owners, the more issues I hear about. I hate to judge an entire product line on one bad experience, but I’m not interested in bringing anything back to this dealership any longer. Unfortunately, in my world, the dealership affects the brand.



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[ajs3]

Must have been the 5.4L 3-valve with the plugs which break off.

Yes it was............

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[Sherman Bird]

Yes it was............

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Having done work on those many times myself, I found a way to remove the plugs and the will not break off, 100% of the time! The prep work necessary makes it expensive to the customer though. And the tooling used is something only professionals generally have in their stable!

 

[Sherman Bird]

So I’ll ask again, how is the OP being hosed again in your scenario? In the OP, he states he’s getting additional work done, which (including the steering rack) totals $2,400. The rack itself (including installation) is $1,695 according to his post. The “service” referred to in your first post is for additional services separate from the steering rack replacement. So again, if the part online is (allegedly) $1,197, and they’re charging $1,695 for parts and install, how again is he being “hosed”? Should they just install it at no charge? Let’s assume for the moment that the $1,695 didn’t include labor (which it looks like, according to the wording from the OP, it does). How is marking up a part to make a profit “hosing” someone? Is profit on parts a dirty word? Last I checked, they provide parts and service with a profit margin continue to operate. It’s called running a business.

There are some folks out there who think mechanics are greedy slime balls. These myopic folks think it's ok to bring me their part (depriving me of THAT profit) then pitch, moan, and **** that I mark up the labor to offset that loss, al the while explaining to them that they have zero warranty through my establishment beyond state mandate of 90 days in place for all crafts.
"They" are out there!

 

[ajs3]

Having done work on those many times myself, I found a way to remove the plugs and the will not break off, 100% of the time! The prep work necessary makes it expensive to the customer though. And the tooling used is something only professionals generally have in their stable!

The first three came out no problem. The next five.......glad I had the ability to do it myself. At least I never had one blow out of head like alot did.

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[Docwagon1776]

As for the 5.7's needs? Why does it NEED 16 sparkplugs???? Why does it NEED multiple computers to run???? Why do I need electric steering that tries to kill me?

Did you watch the video of a modern Camry vs a classic Corvette? That's why. 390 hp out of a naturally aspirated 5.7L motor that you don't have to stop and re-jet half way up the mountain and that will get approximately 20mpg on the highway?

All that complexity adds significantly to performance and efficiency and in a much more comfortable and safer package.

Electric steering, meh, I'd rather not have that myself. I'll keep the multiple plugs and the computer engine controls, though. I would bet everyone here is daily driving a car or truck with it as well, despite their denials that newer is better they aren't daily driving a "better" car or taking it cross country on a road trip. We're planning a 3500 mile round trip this October without a bit of worry in one of these crap modern cars...

 

[Jtblackram]

Old vehicles are nice. Easy to work on, usually cheaper to fix. But parts availability? Edge goes to the newer cars. And a V8 that makes less than 200 horsepower while getting 8 mpg isnt my cup of tea

 

[Sherman Bird]

Did you watch the video of a modern Camry vs a classic Corvette? That's why. 390 hp out of a naturally aspirated 5.7L motor that you don't have to stop and re-jet half way up the mountain and that will get approximately 20mpg on the highway?

All that complexity adds significantly to performance and efficiency and in a much more comfortable and safer package.

Electric steering, meh, I'd rather not have that myself. I'll keep the multiple plugs and the computer engine controls, though. I would bet everyone here is daily driving a car or truck with it as well, despite their denials that newer is better they aren't daily driving a "better" car or taking it cross country on a road trip. We're planning a 3500 mile round trip this October without a bit of worry in one of these crap modern cars...

Spoken like a true warrior!

Back in the early 2000's, there was a movement here abouts where folks were snatching up antiquated cars and trucks and retrofitting modern drivelines into the older iron. The shop I worked in briefly had a dozen or so like that in their back lot awaiting updating.

 

[Tim7139]

Maybe we here in my world were more self sufficient than you.

For those willing to believe the US and Canada didn't mirror the world of Leave It To Beaver, this History Guy video on the Vega has some great points regarding the poor reliability of but great longevity of what was an award winning car with some fairly serious reliability issues even when new -
For those who wish to insist there was a world where cars were great, everyone was self sufficient and went to church on Sunday, no one was lazy, there were no hippies beatniks or bums, and things were just better...keep on keeping on

 

[Tim7139]

My grandfather was a master machinist who worked for Republic Aviation here on Long Island. He was also a marine diesel mechanic and expert at vacuum tube radio and television repair. Most of what I know I was taught by him. He'd tell me " if you drive it, fly it, ride it; know how to fix it". I know that flathead was hauled out at least once and brought down the basement to have who knows what done, before my time, but like I said; he knew his stuff. Labor intensive, yes. And yes, you're right about problems with the old cars. And honestly, nothings really changed except when something does go wrong with today's cars it's usually in the thousands of dollars to fix. Not always but mostly.

Sounds like a great guy, and it's wonderful he was able to share his knowledge.

I was lucky enough to have a aircraft mechanic and custom jeweler with a passion for cars in my life. My Fargo has a few surplus Boeing nuts and bolts thanks to him(and an 86 New Yorker had a few Mooney parts).

I think as a percentage of original sale price cost of major repairs has gotten better from the dealer. I do miss the days of finding a mechanic with a junkyard who's industrious, reliable, and low cost.

The availability of knowledge, parts, and tools to work on them is still very hit and miss by model. For years I found working on anything by the motor in my 2003 Regal was a PITA with a lot of trial and error until they got popular in the resale market as a cheap supercharged car and got a active forum going (The big boy cup holder mod was amazing). With the 3rd and 4th gen RAMs it's hard to find anything that has not been well covered, much better than a Haynes guide.

Speaking of the 2003 Regal, it's power steering rack started to leak in 2008. Thankfully I was able to avoid replacing it, but they were a common failure item along with wheel bearings on the W platform that could leave one on the road with cockeyed wheels. Hopefully it does not become a common issue on these RAMs, seems worse than the old death wobble.

 

[GsRAM]

The first three came out no problem. The next five.......glad I had the ability to do it myself. At least I never had one blow out of head like alot did.

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That was the 5.4 2 valve engine. Ford for some reason thought having 4 threads in an aluminum cylinder head was a great idea ????!!!!???? Many plugs were installed improperly. Too loose/too tight and eventually they got spit out/ejected (lol). Not good. When Ford abandoned the pushrod V8 they kind of lost me. I was never a modular V8 fan. Just my preference.

I have a 1987 Ford Mustang GT project car. I still think that roller cam 302 was one of the best engines made. Not a powerhouse by today's standards, but I built and raced foxbody mustang's when I was in my early 20s (long time ago) and that 302 could take a heck of a beating and come back for more. They also didn't have the lifter failures these modern hemis do.

 

[Sherman Bird]

That was the 5.4 2 valve engine. Ford for some reason thought having 4 threads in an aluminum cylinder head was a great idea ????!!!!???? Many plugs were installed improperly. Too loose/too tight and eventually they got spit out/ejected (lol). Not good. When Ford abandoned the pushrod V8 they kind of lost me. I was never a modular V8 fan. Just my preference.

I have a 1987 Ford Mustang GT project car. I still think that roller cam 302 was one of the best engines made. Not a powerhouse by today's standards, but I built and raced foxbody mustang's when I was in my early 20s (long time ago) and that 302 could take a heck of a beating and come back for more. They also didn't have the lifter failures these modern hemis do.

The 302 pushrod engine was the 289 engine with a longer stroke. The 289 powered the first AC Cobras.

 

[GsRAM]

The 302 pushrod engine was the 289 engine with a longer stroke. The 289 powered the first AC Cobras.

Yes sir.....100% correct. 289 Ford also a good engine.

If you've never watched the movie Ford V Ferrari, check it out sometime. I think you'd enjoy it. I thought it was well done.