Well I couldnt install the headers.. Shop said I should leave it

[msorbara10]

Well I tried to install my new headers this weekend but long story short it didnt work out. It was really hard to work around the shock tower and the thick frame and the bolts are really rusty so I couldnt even get a socket to get a good grip on it.

So I decided to take it to a shop. I see this guy works on rams a lot so I decided to take it to his shop. Very nice Guy knew a lot and said it would be around $400 to $500 job. Well when he looked at it he called me and we talked about how bad the bolts are rusted. I knew they were which was fine and I figured the chances of 1 or 2 breaking off were high.

The problem was he could do it no problem, its just that hes not sure if he would suggest doing it because it could open up a new can of worms for me. He told me if a bolt breaks off that he would have to remove the heads and it would turn into a $1500 job instead. I thought if one were to break off you could drill it out and use an easy out and a left handed drill bit and get it out that way. He said yes but he would still have to take the heads off. He said there is a chance that they could come out easy but wouldnt be worth the risk.

So I told him I would hold off on it for now because I wouldnt want to risk anything.

But is he right that he would have to take off the heads to get a broken bolt out?
Should I try another shop?
Is my truck being a 2500 preventing him to be able to drill out possible broken bolts?

I was really looking forward to getting new headers on and I just ordered a magnaflow Y-Pipe too haha.

Let me know what you guys think I should do. Sorry for the long post

 

[truckin151]

time for a different shop.

 

[truckin151]

what happened to make it so you couldn't do it? and can you take a picture of the stock manifolds so we can see how bad they are?

 

[FL BOY]

did u take out the fender liners and remove the front wheels ?

 

[03MopaRamman]

Sure its challenging but Tell Buddy ********! Stick anybody's head in a Vise and they will produce. Although I have no rust problems where I live I once owned an Aerostar and the manifold gasket was leaking, same story as you about removing the head if the bolt broke, so I bought a small Benzine oxygen acetelene torch, heated each rusty and round headed bolt till red hot and removed them all without not one breaking, when I went back to tell the Mechanic he said I was Luckey! Been Luckey ever since. If a bolt breaks on the Hemi, you remove the manifold and the rust will likely not be all the way down the bolt into the head which are aluminum and don't rust, maybe some white calcium build-up but thats it. Given the light torque load a small vise grip would snap em out or a bolt remover kit out in 10 seconds each. You have to remove the manifold anyways and the trick is to use a 10mm stubby rachet wrench and or 1o mm flex ratchet wrench, and or a 1/4 inch drive ratchet. Now i am un familiar with the towers on the 2500 but I can tell you its a ***** on an LX Car so tell Buddy that one from me as I changed mine on my back in the driveway from underneath with zero side or top acces without an issue except one heat shield nut inside near the flange by the starter but then again those bolts where from a 2005. Sorry about the rant but I hate shops that are negative and bull****ty about these Hemis when it comes to Modding and Improving Ones Ride. Feel Bad for ya but when you have the oppurtunity to take your time and give a couple days to tackle it I'm sure you will make progress. I would surely help you do it for nothing if you were close after hearing that one! Danny

 

[BAILEY1]

^^^Best answer yet!

Time to go to a different shop.

 

[03MopaRamman]

Thats what I should have said Too! Ryan cut it to the Chase!

 

[BAILEY1]

I liked the rant!
I'm like you. I call ******** when I see it, especially when its a repair shop.

 

[msorbara10]

did u take out the fender liners and remove the front wheels ?

Yea I took everything off. I think the hardest part for me was that the bottom bolts I would have to work from under the truck to get the them. It was really difficult because I just had the truck on stands. Also I didnt know how I was going to mount the new pipes because the new headers wouldnt mount up to them directly. If I had the truck up on a lift I really think I could do it myself no problem at all. But it was just very hard for me to work from directly unter the engine to get to the bolts.

 

[msorbara10]

I liked the rant!
I'm like you. I call ******** when I see it, especially when its a repair shop.

Yea I figured he was making a big deal of it. Makes me just want to get back under there and do it myself now haha

 

[msorbara10]

Sure its challenging but Tell Buddy ********! Stick anybody's head in a Vise and they will produce. Although I have no rust problems where I live I once owned an Aerostar and the manifold gasket was leaking, same story as you about removing the head if the bolt broke, so I bought a small Benzine oxygen acetelene torch, heated each rusty and round headed bolt till red hot and removed them all without not one breaking, when I went back to tell the Mechanic he said I was Luckey! Been Luckey ever since. If a bolt breaks on the Hemi, you remove the manifold and the rust will likely not be all the way down the bolt into the head which are aluminum and don't rust, maybe some white calcium build-up but thats it. Given the light torque load a small vise grip would snap em out or a bolt remover kit out in 10 seconds each. You have to remove the manifold anyways and the trick is to use a 10mm stubby rachet wrench and or 1o mm flex ratchet wrench, and or a 1/4 inch drive ratchet. Now i am un familiar with the towers on the 2500 but I can tell you its a ***** on an LX Car so tell Buddy that one from me as I changed mine on my back in the driveway from underneath with zero side or top acces without an issue except one heat shield nut inside near the flange by the starter but then again those bolts where from a 2005. Sorry about the rant but I hate shops that are negative and bull****ty about these Hemis when it comes to Modding and Improving Ones Ride. Feel Bad for ya but when you have the oppurtunity to take your time and give a couple days to tackle it I'm sure you will make progress. I would surely help you do it for nothing if you were close after hearing that one! Danny

The towers get in the way.. I to be honest if I can get access to a lift and get the tools you just told me, I really dont see a problem with me getting this done because its been done before. Thanks for the confidence boost though I think I am going to try and do this myself or if not get another good shop to do it for me. When I get a few days to do it I think I am going to try again.

 

[msorbara10]

what happened to make it so you couldn't do it? and can you take a picture of the stock manifolds so we can see how bad they are?

here are some pics I had from a previous post. I honestly dont think they look as bad in the pics as they are in person. But I guess I also didnt have the right tools to get them out

 

[Redtruck-VA]

I'm going to be a little easier on the mechanic, he was either trying to cover his a$$ if it did go to hell and/or setting you up for add-on work. Saying he had to pull the heads. Storytime: I hang out in a shop that does all kinds of fabrication and repairs. A customer came in with a newer f-350 ford with a leaking exhaust gasket. The shop owner quoted a basic price but in removing the manifolds it went all to hell with a couple bolts breaking off flush with the aluminum head. We got them out by using a heavy flat steel washer with a center hole just a little bigger than the broken bolt. Plug welded the flat washer to the broken bolt, ugly job but has to be strong and actually the heat doesn't hurt any. then took a 9/16" nut and welded it to the flat washer. This two step procedure gives you the most mechanical strenght for the physical size of the broken bolt. Because the frame and suspension being restrictive we used box end wrenches to finally break them loose. If this had failed then we were going to lift the engine. That being better than going into a customer's engine. There is a lot of liability doing this type of work, which is why I DO NOT let anyone work on old RED. If I break something then I know no one could have done it without breaking domething. Of course don't ask me about what happened with my AC pump when I removed it. That was clearly stupid on my part..... lol
Bottom line, do your own work or at least work shoulder to shoulder with who ever is. I broke a couple on mine when I did the headers and screwed them out using vicegrips. It's part of the job unfortunately.. Good luck.

 

[KGBIGCOUNTRY]

Sounds like he is planning for the worst.

 

[WhiteExpress]

Sounds like he is planning for the worst.

It sounds like he doesn't want to get stuck doing $1500 of work for $500 to me.
Old exhaust sucks to mess with unless you're replacing everything. My old boss used to basically tell customers it would end up costing them more to make a new muffler work with ****** old pipe than just to replace all the pipe.

It looks like a typical manifold to me, not extra rusty (maybe I am just used to working on Jeeps!). You can do this man! Just get to it, be prepared for it to take a while, take lots of breaks and don't allow yourself to get discouraged.

As mentioned, those bolts are very likely to break, NBD, you can remove em after the manifold is off. This is the fun of working on trucks!

 

[truckin151]

those don't look bad, I did mine on Jack stands in my garage, took about 5hrs, mine were rusty but not as rusted as yours and never had any issues. Time and patience is your friend.

 

[Redtruck-VA]

I say do it yourself, consider it a bonding experience....

 

[Ramunit]

Those bolts tend to break off even when they are in good shape, I gotta side with the shop on this one for those are sure to break off given the condition. I don't blame the shop one bit for backing out however if you decide to DIY plan on positively breaking some or more bolts off in the head, once that happens it's going to go from a nice afternoon job into a long term nightmare. Just my experience and opinion.

 

[NHDuckHunter8003]

Make a smart investment in lots of penetrating oil. And patience. And beer.

 

[Redtruck-VA]

The heat shield is held on with a nut that usually breaks off, which is no big deal. After getting the shields removed, soak the actual bolt over night if you have time and go for it. A lot of folks on here have done there own and a shop really doesn;t have anything they can do better than you can in your drive. You have already had the wheels off and the inner fenders removed, so you know there is room to work.