Why taking your car to a dealership for a fix-up might be your only option soon

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Yardbird

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Local car repair shops turning away jobs over ‘financial restraints,’ costly tech for new vehicles — why taking your car to a dealership for a fix-up might be your only option soon​

Story by Danielle Antosz
4 min read


As the technology in new vehicles becomes increasingly sophisticated, local repair shops, like Ted's Auto Clinic in Chicago, owned by brothers George and Chris Geropoulos, face mounting financial and logistical barriers to repairing modern cars.

The auto repair shop, opened by their father in 1982, is increasingly unable to service newer cars, which often require a special scanner and a subscription service to access the car's computer to perform diagnostics and make repairs.

“It’s one of those things. As time goes by, we have to focus on more cars we can actually service and turn away work on a lot of the ones we cannot. A lot of the reasons we cannot service a car is because of financial constraints,” George told Fox 32 reporters.

These scanner subscription tools, he reports, can cost between $65 and $40,000 per year, depending on the car type. These tools prevent hackers from accessing the car's computer and exploiting vulnerabilities.

But it appears — thanks to the expense — that they’re also preventing some mechanics from being able to service certain vehicles. Here's why that could be bad news for consumers.

How hackers have changed car repair services

In 2015, Andy Greenberg was driving a Jeep Cherokee when hackers took over his vehicle. They blasted the air conditioning, cranked the music, and even blurred the windshield with wiper fluid. Then, they cut the transmission, leaving the Cherokee stopped in the middle of the interstate with cars lining up behind it. Greenberg was the victim of a zero-day exploit that allowed hackers to access multiple systems in his vehicle.

Luckily for him, the hack was expected — he was a willing participant, allowing hackers Charlie Miller and Chris Valasek to show how these exploits could be used to disable vehicles. Since then, car manufacturers have made drastic changes to how car mechanics can access car computers. New cars now feature “gateway computers” — secure systems that manage everything from the vehicle’s engine to safety features and prevent unauthorized access.

These gateways require costly tools and software to access, which often come with steep subscription fees. Independent shops must purchase the initial scan tools — the Geropoulos’ universal tool ran them between $4,000 to $5,000, and it works on multiple types of cars.

However, not all tools work with all brands, which means mechanic shops may have to invest in more than one tool. This not only starts to get expensive for shops, it also limits the number of vehicles they can work with. Shops then have to invest time and money to train their techs on how to use the equipment.

Finally, they then have to pay subscription fees to use the tools.

The cars with these gateways are all fairly new — usually those sold after 2017. According to Fox 32, which spoke to several consumer automotive experts, the cars with gateways include Chrysler, Jeep, Ram, Dodge, and Nissan vehicles, with Hyundai and Kia to be next.

The dealership may soon be the only option for car repair​

Soon, repair shops like the ones owned by the Geropoulos brothers may only be able to fix a small number of cars.

“I believe right now there are a lot of shops, especially small shops, that these are newer issues for them,” Jeff Cox, President of the Automotive & Maintenance Repair Association, told Fox 32 reporters. “They don’t have the right equipment. They don’t have those certifications. So oftentimes, they are turning customers back to the dealer.”

If you’re one of many consumers forced to head to the dealership for repairs, you’ll likely feel it in your wallet. While the cost difference varies by vehicle, repair, and location, dealer rates can cost $30 or more per hour than the same repair at an independent shop, according to Edmunds. Repairs to modern cars can also take longer due to the complex nature of the systems, which may lead to higher repair costs.

As automotive technology advances, there is a real risk that independent automotive shops will continue to shrink in number, limiting consumers' options. To address these challenges, recent legislation like the Repair Act aims to ensure consumers have direct access to car data related to repairing their vehicles. Advocates argue that without legislative limits, dealerships may gain a near monopoly in car repairs.

While legislation may eventually level the playing field, for now, new car owners should brace for a world where car repairs — like movies, music, and software — come with a subscription price.


https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/oth...&cvid=faa6e52e9b2f4d2d8a23d947f6a117a6&ei=188
 

markabby

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how keep your car or truck disconnected from the internet (?)

you'd have to turn off a lot of options, like wifi, cellular data, etc. Options most of us use.
 

HarryS

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It will weed out the fly by night mechanics. Only the reputable shops will afford the tech necessary.
 

Wild one

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What i've been observing lately is alot of shops especially high performance shops have started specializing in 1 brand of vehicle,and they're only buying tools for that specific brand of vehicle
 

runamuck

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how keep your car or truck disconnected from the internet (?)

you'd have to turn off a lot of options, like wifi, cellular data, etc. Options most of us use.
I dont use the wifi or cell data in my truck so no problem for me.
 

Sandevino

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There’s a lot of misinformation in this article.

I’ve spent most of my professional life in the diesel service industry servicing multiple brands and engines spanning multiple decades. A modern semi-truck has systems (air, hydraulic and communications) a high end (Ram, Ford or GM) truck can only dream of having which are extremely complex. Each brand has their proprietary tools, interfaces and methods and picking up the required tooling is part of the cost of doing business. With very few exceptions (looking at you Peterbilt) the brands will sell the repair facilities everything needed to service anything they have manufactured. The manufacturer doesn’t want the maintenance work as the money is in major repairs. Anything still under the manufacturers warranty has to be taken to the branded repair facility for warranty work.

What the article doesn’t discuss is the quality of technician wanting to enter the repair industry. The high cost of living, cost of tools and flat rate pay to name a few are killing the independent industry.
 

Dan Topp

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Had to buy an unlocked pcm to work on my tinfoil truck and anything else paying for the software.As with my new caddy if anything goes wrong or service issues I know someone who is on top of all the bs so far. Glad at 63 my 24 will most likely be the last pos new car I buy.
 

RamDiver

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Had to buy an unlocked pcm to work on my tinfoil truck and anything else paying for the software.As with my new caddy if anything goes wrong or service issues I know someone who is on top of all the bs so far. Glad at 63 my 24 will most likely be the last pos new car I buy.

I'm only a couple of years behind you and feel the same about my '21 Warlock.

It's the one and only new vehicle I've ever bought but if there's ever a replacement required, it will be a stupid old beater.

.
 

turkeybird56

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I'm only a couple of years behind you and feel the same about my '21 Warlock.

It's the one and only new vehicle I've ever bought but if there's ever a replacement required, it will be a stupid old beater.

.
Sometimes an old Ford with 3 on the floor or old 66 Chevy with 3 on the tree works well, LOL.
 

Dan Topp

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I'm only a couple of years behind you and feel the same about my '21 Warlock.

It's the one and only new vehicle I've ever bought but if there's ever a replacement required, it will be a stupid old beater.

.
Or if it isn’t body related a nice crate engine and manual transmission for me.
 

GTyankee

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Andy Greenberg was driving a Jeep Cherokee when hackers took over his vehicle.

What they did not say was that the so called Hackers had the Jeep for something like a Week or More.
It was all setup by FCA, because someone claimed that someone else was applying some bodies vehicle & it was all over the News

FCA basically proved that it could not have happened the way it had been told to the News.

It was after that had happened, that Hackers, ( Thieves ), got a hold of a FCA ECU & other parts & pieces & made a device that acted like YOUR FOB & after a while, they sold the wiring diagram to other thieves on the Dark Web.

Police are saying that they cannot figure how it is being done, which is BS
Well there are 2 ways to do it, one way is to capture your FOBs signal, when you are walking into a store & use your FOB to lock your vehicle.

One other way is for them to close enough to your home, to read the signal that your FOB is constantly transmitting

 

RamDiver

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Andy Greenberg was driving a Jeep Cherokee when hackers took over his vehicle.

What they did not say was that the so called Hackers had the Jeep for something like a Week or More.
It was all setup by FCA, because someone claimed that someone else was applying some bodies vehicle & it was all over the News

FCA basically proved that it could not have happened the way it had been told to the News.

It was after that had happened, that Hackers, ( Thieves ), got a hold of a FCA ECU & other parts & pieces & made a device that acted like YOUR FOB & after a while, they sold the wiring diagram to other thieves on the Dark Web.

Police are saying that they cannot figure how it is being done, which is BS
Well there are 2 ways to do it, one way is to capture your FOBs signal, when you are walking into a store & use your FOB to lock your vehicle.

One other way is for them to close enough to your home, to read the signal that your FOB is constantly transmitting


That video is dated as more than 6-years old. It has to make you wonder how manufacturers can drag their a$$ so slowly at providing better vehicle security.

The following report is only 2 months old and reveals fascinating information.

Namely that vehicle manufacturers already have better vehicle security across the pond in UK while the theft rate is higher in Canada and the US.

These are the same vehicles sold here in North America and yet we haven't the opportunity to get the same security features.

We need to start making more noise because obviously the manufacturers don't GAF.

The Canadian Transportation Minister is threatening government intervention in 2025 but based on the press conference, I'm not holding my breath that any legislation will have sufficient bite.



.
 
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Hagar1

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Local car repair shops turning away jobs over ‘financial restraints,’ costly tech for new vehicles — why taking your car to a dealership for a fix-up might be your only option soon​

Story by Danielle Antosz
4 min read


As the technology in new vehicles becomes increasingly sophisticated, local repair shops, like Ted's Auto Clinic in Chicago, owned by brothers George and Chris Geropoulos, face mounting financial and logistical barriers to repairing modern cars.

The auto repair shop, opened by their father in 1982, is increasingly unable to service newer cars, which often require a special scanner and a subscription service to access the car's computer to perform diagnostics and make repairs.

“It’s one of those things. As time goes by, we have to focus on more cars we can actually service and turn away work on a lot of the ones we cannot. A lot of the reasons we cannot service a car is because of financial constraints,” George told Fox 32 reporters.

These scanner subscription tools, he reports, can cost between $65 and $40,000 per year, depending on the car type. These tools prevent hackers from accessing the car's computer and exploiting vulnerabilities.

But it appears — thanks to the expense — that they’re also preventing some mechanics from being able to service certain vehicles. Here's why that could be bad news for consumers.

How hackers have changed car repair services

In 2015, Andy Greenberg was driving a Jeep Cherokee when hackers took over his vehicle. They blasted the air conditioning, cranked the music, and even blurred the windshield with wiper fluid. Then, they cut the transmission, leaving the Cherokee stopped in the middle of the interstate with cars lining up behind it. Greenberg was the victim of a zero-day exploit that allowed hackers to access multiple systems in his vehicle.

Luckily for him, the hack was expected — he was a willing participant, allowing hackers Charlie Miller and Chris Valasek to show how these exploits could be used to disable vehicles. Since then, car manufacturers have made drastic changes to how car mechanics can access car computers. New cars now feature “gateway computers” — secure systems that manage everything from the vehicle’s engine to safety features and prevent unauthorized access.

These gateways require costly tools and software to access, which often come with steep subscription fees. Independent shops must purchase the initial scan tools — the Geropoulos’ universal tool ran them between $4,000 to $5,000, and it works on multiple types of cars.

However, not all tools work with all brands, which means mechanic shops may have to invest in more than one tool. This not only starts to get expensive for shops, it also limits the number of vehicles they can work with. Shops then have to invest time and money to train their techs on how to use the equipment.

Finally, they then have to pay subscription fees to use the tools.

The cars with these gateways are all fairly new — usually those sold after 2017. According to Fox 32, which spoke to several consumer automotive experts, the cars with gateways include Chrysler, Jeep, Ram, Dodge, and Nissan vehicles, with Hyundai and Kia to be next.

The dealership may soon be the only option for car repair​

Soon, repair shops like the ones owned by the Geropoulos brothers may only be able to fix a small number of cars.

“I believe right now there are a lot of shops, especially small shops, that these are newer issues for them,” Jeff Cox, President of the Automotive & Maintenance Repair Association, told Fox 32 reporters. “They don’t have the right equipment. They don’t have those certifications. So oftentimes, they are turning customers back to the dealer.”

If you’re one of many consumers forced to head to the dealership for repairs, you’ll likely feel it in your wallet. While the cost difference varies by vehicle, repair, and location, dealer rates can cost $30 or more per hour than the same repair at an independent shop, according to Edmunds. Repairs to modern cars can also take longer due to the complex nature of the systems, which may lead to higher repair costs.

As automotive technology advances, there is a real risk that independent automotive shops will continue to shrink in number, limiting consumers' options. To address these challenges, recent legislation like the Repair Act aims to ensure consumers have direct access to car data related to repairing their vehicles. Advocates argue that without legislative limits, dealerships may gain a near monopoly in car repairs.

While legislation may eventually level the playing field, for now, new car owners should brace for a world where car repairs — like movies, music, and software — come with a subscription price.


https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/oth...&cvid=faa6e52e9b2f4d2d8a23d947f6a117a6&ei=188
Well , it has taken a lot of years but the manufacturers have finally done it. I remember back in the 1980s when Chrysler said that they wanted to tie the customer back to the dealership for a longer period of time. They knew that plenty were going away long before the warranty expire and only coming back for warranty work.
I remember too, the complaints that came (rightly so) from the aftermarket because of the unique Data link connector, hence, the 16 pin connector was born. At the time, the manufacturers fought back and the final agreement essentially revolved around the aftermarket gaining access to engine and emission stuff only.
The manufacturers knew and still know that the dealer can make a lot more in service than in sales. The parts people do ok as well, just remember that a vehicle is just a bunch of parts that came to you either on 4 wheels on in little boxes.
 

Dan Topp

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Andy Greenberg was driving a Jeep Cherokee when hackers took over his vehicle.

What they did not say was that the so called Hackers had the Jeep for something like a Week or More.
It was all setup by FCA, because someone claimed that someone else was applying some bodies vehicle & it was all over the News

FCA basically proved that it could not have happened the way it had been told to the News.

It was after that had happened, that Hackers, ( Thieves ), got a hold of a FCA ECU & other parts & pieces & made a device that acted like YOUR FOB & after a while, they sold the wiring diagram to other thieves on the Dark Web.

Police are saying that they cannot figure how it is being done, which is BS
Well there are 2 ways to do it, one way is to capture your FOBs signal, when you are walking into a store & use your FOB to lock your vehicle.

One other way is for them to close enough to your home, to read the signal that your FOB is constantly transmitting

Glad you brought this subject up,my choice to get the rfd pouches for the keyless fobs and larger ones for the phones or image.jpgwallets gets me some laughs but it’s a reality today.
 

Hagar1

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The "lock" code is apparently "fixed" if anyone captures that code, all they can do is lock your vehicle. The UNLOCK code is "supposed to be" a rolling code, never the same two times in a row. That is what the told us, whether it was BS or not, well, I don't know. There are some pretty ingenious thieves out there!
 

Hagar1

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Glad you brought this subject up,my choice to get the rfd pouches for the keyless fobs and larger ones for the phones or View attachment 557936wallets gets me some laughs but it’s a reality today.
I particularly like that RFID at the top left of the photo. Truly car theft prevention.
 
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