The future looks pretty sad.

[Docwagon1776]

The current variety of ev is some 20+ years old and

The current design of ev's is some 20+ years old. It is very evolved and sophisticated. Governments need to eliminate L/i batteries and change to something safe like lead acid batteries, just like the forklifts I've used in the past. Safe and readily available.

If lead acid was a viable option, nobody would have used lithium to start with. It's vastly cheaper to produce.

Lithium provides much much steadier power regardless of charge level, can be discharged to lower levels without harm, and is vastly lighter for the same amount of storage capacity. Whatever, if anything, repalces lithium it sure AF won't be lead acid.

 

[U&A]

Just thinking about a even SMALL electric vehicle @ 4,600lbs (weight of a tesla) having enough battery to push it at 70MPH for 500 miles+…… that is an amazing task for a battery

Now.

If we all just lived in the Salt flats and drove those super light weight solar vehicles we would be all set.

 

[Native Texan]

And here I thought it wasn't that bad. I been using it to fill tanks of propane. Just a few stainless cells and a refrigerator compressor seemed simple enough. Never really looked at the large scale production of it but yeah makes sense it'd be Ineffecient.

I've used propane forklifts and am good with that, but I don't want to drive around the horrible drivers we have loaded with a cylinder that becomes a major blowtorch if it is compromised. How much worse would hydrogen be, with much higher pressures and much greater volatility.

 

[Docwagon1776]

I've used propane forklifts and am good with that, but I don't want to drive around the horrible drivers we have loaded with a cylinder that becomes a major blowtorch if it is compromised. How much worse would hydrogen be, with much higher pressures and much greater volatility.

Not really an issue. Any force significant enough to rupture the carbon fiber tanks in production hydrogen vehicles killed all the occupants long before fire gets the chance.

Japan has been sinking a lot of cash in hydrogen, which I've mentioned elsewhere and why it makes economic sense for them to do so. The military has played with them a bit. California had a pilot program and there's been a pretty small number of hydrogen cars in private hands there for a decade or so. Like maybe 10k-15k cars in total. They had to pass all the same crash tests as ICE and EV vehicles and, unless it's been pretty recent, no injury or fatality was ever reported due to hydrogen propulsion.

The issue remains it's too expensive compared to all other commercial alternatives because taking naturally occuring compounds and extracting H2 to use as fuel is energy negative, a point I've made before and won't belabor.

 

[Native Texan]

#6) It's easy to be an armchair critic. If you have better ideas get some patents and take them to market. I'm looking forward to it.

I don't have better ideas. I don't have anything to patent. What I do have is the understanding shared by many here of the fact that wealth is driving the agenda for the purpose of a few gaining more and more control at the same time that they are building vastly more wealth. With lies about so many things being supported by 'scientists' that are paid to lie in order to have income.

EVs have been around since the beginning. They have failed miserably and continue to do so. But the EV evangelicals will continue to pretend they are something new. Just please leave the rest of us alone.

 

[Native Texan]

The problem is that the regime is focused on eliminating petroleum from our lives and taking away choice. I am happy to live in a world such that I can pay for ice and you can pay for ev. BUT I want both of us to pay the cost required to produce the product and eliminate all subsidies. Electric 4 wheel drive cars were around in the 1800's. Nothing new or different. They failed in the marketplace. EV's should live or die by the marketplace and not get any subsidies from my tax money.

Brandon-w

If you do not like the EV then just don't buy one. Not everyone is anti EV as you.

 

[Native Texan]

Not really an issue. Any force significant enough to rupture the carbon fiber tanks in production hydrogen vehicles killed all the occupants long before fire gets the chance.

Japan has been sinking a lot of cash in hydrogen, which I've mentioned elsewhere and why it makes economic sense for them to do so. The military has played with them a bit. California had a pilot program and there's been a pretty small number of hydrogen cars in private hands there for a decade or so. Like maybe 10k-15k cars in total. They had to pass all the same crash tests as ICE and EV vehicles and, unless it's been pretty recent, no injury or fatality was ever reported due to hydrogen propulsion.

The issue remains it's too expensive compared to all other commercial alternatives because taking naturally occuring compounds and extracting H2 to use as fuel is energy negative, a point I've made before and won't belabor.

I agree with you but was offering other thoughts related to pressurized fuel tanks. Regarding fire safety, it seems to me that diesel is far and away safer than any other fuel due to its lack of volatility. But any liquid is safer than a pressurized tank of fuel.

 

[Native Texan]

I agree.

Not sure you would get very far on one of them either. The size of them in relation the ampHours is worse than Lithium batteries. And they will make for a SUPER heavy vehicle.

Im not a fart smeller but that is my ThOughT.

I agree. They wouldn't go as far. But we wouldn't have the kind of fires l/i produces. Lead acid is easily recycled. We have the tech nailed down. You just wouldn't drive as far on a charge.

 

[Docwagon1776]

I agree with you but was offering other thoughts related to pressurized fuel tanks. Regarding fire safety, it seems to me that diesel is far and away safer than any other fuel due to its lack of volatility. But any liquid is safer than a pressurized tank of fuel.

Sure. Safety is a sliding scale, not a binary condition of safe or not safe. I think we're at the point if it takes forces that kill the occupants to make the fuel source *insert disaster here* then for practical purposes they are samey-same.

Personally, and I've been pitching this for a few years now, I'm investing in natural gas pipeline companies. Doesn't matter if EVs or Hydrogen or gas or whatever, it all takes energy on the front end and LNG is almost certainly going to remain the cheapest and most viable source for much of industry in the time span I've got left to be concerned with mortal concerns like income. I like the pipeline companies more than the extractors or refiners simply because they are more insulated from the market swings. It could all crash and burn tomorrow, but so far I've done pretty well with it.

 

[Native Texan]

Lead acid has been used in many applications successfully and without significant danger. Yes it is heavier but are we more interested in weight than safety?

 

[Docwagon1776]

Lead acid has been used in many applications successfully and without significant danger. Yes it is heavier but are we more interested in weight than safety?

Do me a favor. Spend about 10 minutes researching the difference in how lead acid batteries discharge vs lithium ion batteries discharge. You'll answer most of your questions as to why there is zero chance EVs run on lead acid, and why consumer electronics like cell phones and laptops use lithium.

 

[U&A]

i got it!!!!!!

We put a wind mill on top of our cars so when we are driving it charges the battery.

Your welcome.

LOL

EV’s just wont work for today’s world. But it will for “15 min cities”

 

[Yardbird]

Interesting.......

Hertz Is Now Selling Tesla Cars At Bumper Discounts After Announcing A Scale Back On EVs​

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/new...p&cvid=538a7f469b29456883714057cd3933c1&ei=63

 

[Burla]

Sure. Safety is a sliding scale, not a binary condition of safe or not safe. I think we're at the point if it takes forces that kill the occupants to make the fuel source *insert disaster here* then for practical purposes they are samey-same.

Personally, and I've been pitching this for a few years now, I'm investing in natural gas pipeline companies. Doesn't matter if EVs or Hydrogen or gas or whatever, it all takes energy on the front end and LNG is almost certainly going to remain the cheapest and most viable source for much of industry in the time span I've got left to be concerned with mortal concerns like income. I like the pipeline companies more than the extractors or refiners simply because they are more insulated from the market swings. It could all crash and burn tomorrow, but so far I've done pretty well with it.

how most energy is generated these days and the real reason why localities want people off natural gas. One does wonder why they didnt get their "leader" on board with this since the last "leader" is very pro natural gas. And they sure can use synthetic natural gas from biomass waste. Endless green energy that can be used to fuel those electric cars. And yet one side is so unreasonable nobody has even sniffed this story. You will need a large infrastructure to replace coal or fossil natural gas. Wouldnt that have been a better way to spend all of our tax dollars instead of the joke reasoning that has lead to massive inflation making this strategy damn near impossible? I mean tax payers would you not support this over rebates that most of us couldnt get anyway? Or like 90% of where your tax goes, because synthetic natural gas can be used in combustion engines very responsibly and will be a bridge past fossil fuels, helps your kids and mine, if I had kids.

I appreciate doc wagons comments, we need a good discussion, no ad hominom stuff like other "members". I'd like everyone to consider that, keep this about the issue not the members. I have learned quite a bit, and accept where I was mis informed.

 

[Native Texan]

Sure. Safety is a sliding scale, not a binary condition of safe or not safe. I think we're at the point if it takes forces that kill the occupants to make the fuel source *insert disaster here* then for practical purposes they are samey-same.

Personally, and I've been pitching this for a few years now, I'm investing in natural gas pipeline companies. Doesn't matter if EVs or Hydrogen or gas or whatever, it all takes energy on the front end and LNG is almost certainly going to remain the cheapest and most viable source for much of industry in the time span I've got left to be concerned with mortal concerns like income. I like the pipeline companies more than the extractors or refiners simply because they are more insulated from the market swings. It could all crash and burn tomorrow, but so far I've done pretty well with it.

I am thinking more along the line of objects penetrating the fuel compartment such as road debris and also spontaneous combustion along with minor collisions, such as the incidents in Canada at some 60k CAD to repair. There is too much stuff that is dropped on the roadways which could damage l/i batteries especially. Also accidents where the vehicle is pushed up onto awkward objects.

Maybe I need to look into gas pipeline mutual funds also.

 

[Burla]

Read this, synthetic natural gas, they already have a container ship running on it.

You can use this gas to generate the grid or directly in engines, cleanly.

World's first container ship to run on climate-neutral SNG​

In September 2021, the 1,036-teu vessel ElbBLUE became the first container ship worldwide to use climate-neutral SNG on a commercial trip. With the pilot project MAN Energy Solutions and its partners have demonstrated that any LNG-retrofitted ship can run on fuels generated by Power-to-X technology, and even as a mix of fuels.

 

[Brandon-w]

I do have to laugh about our governments wanting to lower our carbon footprint by forcing us into electric cars.
The internet uses something like an estimated 307 gigawatts of power and no one says anything at all about it. To put that in terms one gigawatt can power 750,000 homes and is equivalent to something like 1.3million horsepower. Yeah... They want us in electric cars again why??? Again something seems ary doesn't it.

How much energy does the Internet use?

Millions of mobile devices, computers and data centers make up the Internet. Machines join and drop off every second, and each requires electricity. Is it possible to measure how much juice the Internet uses?

computer.howstuffworks.com

Gigawatt: The Solar Energy Term You Should Know About

What exactly is a gigawatt, and what does it have to do with solar power? Here's everything you need to know about the gigawatt.

www.cnet.com

How much electricity does an electric car use? | EVBox

Discover exactly how much electricity is needed to charge your electric car, and how much charging an EV at home will add to your electricity bill.

evbox.com

Trends in electric light-duty vehicles – Global EV Outlook 2023 – Analysis - IEA

Global EV Outlook 2023 - Analysis and key findings. A report by the International Energy Agency.

www.iea.org

So you take roughly 26 million electric vehicles on the road today. Then add the kWh for vehicles that drive an average 37 miles a day that uses 4311kwh a year given you don't run the battery right down. If you do it's 5500-7500watts per charge! Insane.
Anyways take that number (4311x26m=) 112,086,000,000 kWh year which is 112.086 gigawatts just charging your cars. That's 84 million homes we could power. Up the forced electric car ownership by 2035 and you'll see... More coal and diesel power plants to keep up, home fires, car fires and melted power wires to your home lol!!!!
The future is sad.

 

[Hemi395]

I do have to laugh about our governments wanting to lower our carbon footprint by forcing us into electric cars.
The internet uses something like an estimated 307 gigawatts of power and no one says anything at all about it. To put that in terms one gigawatt can power 750,000 homes and is equivalent to something like 1.3million horsepower. Yeah... They want us in electric cars again why??? Again something seems ary doesn't it.

Brandon you're picking up bad habits from @Burla, using common sense and logic doesn't work with the current agenda.

 

[Brandon-w]

Brandon you're picking up bad habits from @Burla, using common sense and logic doesn't work with the current agenda.

Dammit @Burla stop inflewencing me so much all this common sense is scaring the crap out of the greenies!! Hahaha

 

[Brandon-w]

Take this link for example.. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-ai-boom-could-use-a-shocking-amount-of-electricity/
Ai is technology that in my opinion is more dangerous than good. But you get us using gigawatts and this thing could be using Terawatts! So while we're being punished for our ice engines and our carbon footprint the ever evolving ai will be Far surpassing our consumption and no one will bat an eye???
Maybe we need a massive emp set us back to the days of working the land and earning a hard living, surviving was planting, harvesting, collecting wood, preserving food and generally just preparing for winter.
Be alot less bs and alot more common sense again. Atleast I'd hope so.