Blackstone - used oil analysis

[CanuckRam1313]

The consensus speaks, and I concur, M1 FS 0W40 for the next OCI, and I'll use a RP 20-820 oil filter, too.
I'll run that to an 8,000Km's OCI and send out a sample to Blackstone.
Thanks, All.
Should be interesting to see what it comes back with.

 

[HEMIMANN]

Am I wrong to be seeing 3 top line engine oils as in the same quality category:

Amsoil 0W-40
Mobil 1 FS 0W-40
HP Lubricants Super Car 0W-40

These three are all primary PAO API Group IV base oils, right? All three are API "SN" type robust antiwear additives, not sure if all three have high moly add packs.

Where's Travis @Travis8352 ?

Red Line is the outlier with the heavy blend of polyol ester in the base oil. This adds high temp oxidation resistance beyond PAO (which is already high), but seems to allow a bit higher cylinder wall wear in iron ppm since esters aren't as good a shear lubricant. But, esters also cling to metal surfaces which helps poor roller lifter lubrication in Hemi engines. I still consider Red Line 5W-30 the best for Hemi for all these reasons, but the top 3 PAO's above are of interest.

 

[knightjp]

Am I wrong to be seeing 3 top line engine oils as in the same quality category:

Amsoil 0W-40
Mobil 1 FS 0W-40
HP Lubricants Super Car 0W-40

These three are all primary PAO API Group IV base oils, right? All three are API "SN" type robust antiwear additives, not sure if all three have high moly add packs.

Where's Travis @Travis8352 ?

Red Line is the outlier with the heavy blend of polyol ester in the base oil. This adds high temp oxidation resistance beyond PAO (which is already high), but seems to allow a bit higher cylinder wall wear in iron ppm since esters aren't as good a shear lubricant. But, esters also cling to metal surfaces which helps poor roller lifter lubrication in Hemi engines. I still consider Red Line 5W-30 the best for Hemi for all these reasons, but the top 3 PAO's above are of interest.

You could look at the voa database from BITOG..

Virgin Oil Analysis Results

20 Grade 20 Grade Oils,Rating,Date,Source,Al,Ch,Fe,Cu,Pb,Tn,Moly,Ni,Mn,Silv,Ti,K,Bn,Si,Na,Ca <a href="https://www.patreon.com/posts/100978792?pr=true">AC Delco 0W20 Full Synthetic</a>,SP,4/25/23,Blackstone,0,0,0,0,0,0,73,0,0,0,0,0,220,5,2,1313 Amsoil OE Full Synthetic 0w-20,SP,11/18/20,Blackstone,0

docs.google.com

Redline is showing some good numbers there. Although I don't see M1 FS in the list. I guess it wasn't tested yet or the results documented. Using M1 FS 0w40 myself, currently on the second dose and from the sound of my engine, I'm liking the results - especially considering that I've faced the lifter tick twice and had them replaced. I keep the OCIs short though; approx 5k kilometers.

 

[ramffml]

Am I wrong to be seeing 3 top line engine oils as in the same quality category:

Amsoil 0W-40
Mobil 1 FS 0W-40
HP Lubricants Super Car 0W-40

These three are all primary PAO API Group IV base oils, right? All three are API "SN" type robust antiwear additives, not sure if all three have high moly add packs.

Where's Travis @Travis8352 ?

Red Line is the outlier with the heavy blend of polyol ester in the base oil. This adds high temp oxidation resistance beyond PAO (which is already high), but seems to allow a bit higher cylinder wall wear in iron ppm since esters aren't as good a shear lubricant. But, esters also cling to metal surfaces which helps poor roller lifter lubrication in Hemi engines. I still consider Red Line 5W-30 the best for Hemi for all these reasons, but the top 3 PAO's above are of interest.

Mobil 1 has very little moly, I believe most of us who have tried it usually spike it with LG. HP has extremely heavy doses in their formulas. My VOA for the PP PCMO had like 850 ppm.

Amsoil was also a ticker (IIRC) as reported on bitog.

 

[ramffml]

Just googled and got a bitog VOA result for mobil 1 fs 0w-40, moly is at 71 ppm.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/mobil-1-0w-40-sp-voa.369717/

Amsoil 0w-40 looks like 231 ppm.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/attachments/img_20210731_0001-pdf.65526/

 

[ramffml]

Am I wrong to be seeing 3 top line engine oils as in the same quality category:

Amsoil 0W-40
Mobil 1 FS 0W-40
HP Lubricants Super Car 0W-40

Also I'm curious why you chose the super car, I believe most of bitog finds the "euro no vii" formula to be superior? I'm not smart enough to know the difference. Other than that there is no 0w-40 probably because they'd need vii's to get that swing, but the 5w-30 is still pretty stout?

 

[Burla]

The consensus speaks, and I concur, M1 FS 0W40 for the next OCI, and I'll use a RP 20-820 oil filter, too.
I'll run that to an 8,000Km's OCI and send out a sample to Blackstone.
Thanks, All.
Should be interesting to see what it comes back with.

Yeah think about it a little it's your truck, when I suggest that oil in your truck it was specifically to get something close to what you had in there in many ways (mostly viscosity) at the CHEAPEST price. So Amsoil 0w40 is another choice but the reason I didnt mention it over the m1fs is because it is thick, even 0 winter rated it is gonna be thicker in canada start ups. And the reason I didnt mention 0w30 HPL super car is because of the price, but on paper this might be the best choice if budget doesnt matter.

 

[CanuckRam1313]

Yeah think about it a little it's your truck, when I suggest that oil in your truck it was specifically to get something close to what you had in there in many ways (mostly viscosity) at the CHEAPEST price. So Amsoil 0w40 is another choice but the reason I didnt mention it over the m1fs is because it is thick, even 0 winter rated it is gonna be thicker in canada start ups. And the reason I didnt mention 0w30 HPL super car is because of the price, but on paper this might be the best choice if budget doesnt matter.

If HPL 0W30 is going to be the closest to what I'm currently running and afford the best UOA comparison... budget isn't an issue, and your experience & rrecommendations are appreciated @Burla
Thanks.

 

[HEMIMANN]

Also I'm curious why you chose the super car, I believe most of bitog finds the "euro no vii" formula to be superior? I'm not smart enough to know the difference. Other than that there is no 0w-40 probably because they'd need vii's to get that swing, but the 5w-30 is still pretty stout?

I remember Super Car 0W-30 was closest formula to Red Line but all PAO instead.
I think the no VII oils were introduced after that, and I don't recall the outcome of those discussions.
Remember the VII used by HP Lubricants is shear stable high buck star polymer, so no VII oil isn't as important, right?
I'd rather have wider vis range with stable VII than narrower vis range without VII for the extreme climate I live in.
Especially when we are doing OCI'S at regular intervals instead of trying to extend oil changes with our Hemi oil drama Queen engines.

 

[ramffml]

I remember Super Car 0W-30 was closest formula to Red Line but all PAO instead.
I think the no VII oils were introduced after that, and I don't recall the outcome of those discussions.
Remember the VII used by HP Lubricants is shear stable high buck star polymer, so no VII oil isn't as important, right?
I'd rather have wider vis range with stable VII than narrower vis range without VII for the extreme climate I live in.
Especially when we are doing OCI'S at regular intervals instead of trying to extend oil changes with our Hemi oil drama Queen engines.

I saved these notes from a bitog post:

The differences are:
1. PCMO: Blended with Group III base oil and Olefin Polymer VII.
2. PCMO Premium: Blended with PAO and Olefin Polymer VII.
3. PCMO Premium Plus: Blended with PAO and Star Polymer VII.

I've used the PP with the star polymer and posted UOA in blackstone, it was very stable yes.

 

[Curmudgeon]

Total newbie to the UOA world, never had one done on any vehicle I've ever owned. I just requested a kit from Blackstone, and here is my question:

I just had the oil changed at the dealer a couple weeks ago, they say they only use Pennzoil Synthetic and Mopar filter. They have been doing my oil since I bought this truck used with 30k miles around 2017. Is there any good reason to get a sample and get it analyzed now, because my next change will be a year from now with 7k more miles on it.

About the truck: 2014 1500 Laramie, 5.7L, 8-speed, 3.21 gears, 104,000 miles. No tick, never has. All manifold bolts have been done along with the fuel sending unit. Other than that it is all original equipment and has had all recommended maintenance done by the same dealer, and done on time. Built in Warren if that matters. Running it on 89 Octane, Top Tier only.

I plan on doing another UOA just prior to the next oil change, I guess I'm looking to see what my oil looks like right now, and then compare it to the report a year from now.

Have I left anything out? Thoughts? Help a newbie out!

 

[Burla]

Your engine is in it's prime low wear time, generally over 100k all the way til an engine starts having internal issues. It sounds like there is no real reason for the uoa, just knowledge, which is cool. Whatever you decide its a good strategy so long as you get at least one with some good miles on it like 7500 miles-ish. The one thing I would do if I was you is pick a brand and a strategy, lets say Pennzoil synthetic either PUP or PP, or even m1, the two most popular oils on the board, so the important thing is to stick with your choice and get tbn, this is what sets your safe interval and is invaluable to keeping wear low. So it is good to have 7500 miles on that tbn to help you with how your interval is, minimum 5k miles somewhere inbwteen those numbers. tbn is extra ten bucks.

 

[Curmudgeon]

Your engine is in it's prime low wear time, generally over 100k all the way til an engine starts having internal issues. It sounds like there is no real reason for the uoa, just knowledge, which is cool. Whatever you decide its a good strategy so long as you get at least one with some good miles on it like 7500 miles-ish. The one thing I would do if I was you is pick a brand and a strategy, lets say Pennzoil synthetic either PUP or PP, or even m1, the two most popular oils on the board, so the important thing is to stick with your choice and get tbn, this is what sets your safe interval and is invaluable to keeping wear low. So it is good to have 7500 miles on that tbn to help you with how your interval is, minimum 5k miles somewhere inbwteen those numbers. tbn is extra ten bucks.

Yep, just knowledge. Although it's not a VOA it will help to establish a baseline for my engine, as well as the possibility of showing anything I should be worried about... or not worried about right now.
Since retirement at 01/2022 I have been tracking right around 7k/year so I'll be doing another UOA next fall.

I'll be calling the dealer to get specific info on the oil they use, better info than "Pennzoil Synthetic".

 

[Burla]

Yep, just knowledge. Although it's not a VOA it will help to establish a baseline for my engine, as well as the possibility of showing anything I should be worried about... or not worried about right now.
Since retirement at 01/2022 I have been tracking right around 7k/year so I'll be doing another UOA next fall.

I'll be calling the dealer to get specific info on the oil they use, better info than "Pennzoil Synthetic".

You can almost guess when you see it on paper what they use, most of the time it is syn blend and will look like this If it is 200ish moly it is conventional, if it is 140 moly it is blend, if it is moly 80ish it is PP, it is unlikely they will use PUP unless it is 0w40 oil. But yeah ask them and then you can verify it with your uoa.

 

[Burla]

Got my latest results, first run using HPL.

Also have a spreadsheet where I keep track of this so that I can record the oil used and the wear metals normalized to 10,000 KM.

This shows the importance of normalizing. Because at first glance the copper/iron looks kinda bad compared to previous runs but when we normalize the data it looks pretty good. Green shows lowest value in that row, orange the highest.

Comments from Blackstone:


View attachment 522525

I love how HPL's heavy use of Mag lends itself to tbn retention. Might this be the new king of the long interval?

 

[KenR 955]

As per @Burla
Here is my latest UOA. He asked me to post it here.

 

[HEMIMANN]

As per @Burla
Here is my latest UOA. He asked me to post it here.

What oil is this?

 

[KenR 955]

What oil is this?

Red Line 5w30, the 10-48 small RP filter

 

[JHoward]

Total newbie to the UOA world, never had one done on any vehicle I've ever owned. I just requested a kit from Blackstone, and here is my question:

I just had the oil changed at the dealer a couple weeks ago, they say they only use Pennzoil Synthetic and Mopar filter. They have been doing my oil since I bought this truck used with 30k miles around 2017. Is there any good reason to get a sample and get it analyzed now, because my next change will be a year from now with 7k more miles on it.

About the truck: 2014 1500 Laramie, 5.7L, 8-speed, 3.21 gears, 104,000 miles. No tick, never has. All manifold bolts have been done along with the fuel sending unit. Other than that it is all original equipment and has had all recommended maintenance done by the same dealer, and done on time. Built in Warren if that matters. Running it on 89 Octane, Top Tier only.

I plan on doing another UOA just prior to the next oil change, I guess I'm looking to see what my oil looks like right now, and then compare it to the report a year from now.

Have I left anything out? Thoughts? Help a newbie out!

It's never too late to have an oil analysis done and imo, it's good to know the wear trends of the engine, js.

 

[knightjp]

As per @Burla
Here is my latest UOA. He asked me to post it here.

@Burla Looks like the result shows tin. Starting to think whether Redline is slipping in their manufacturing process or something. Reading through the comments on the report, Blackstone makes note of the tin, but then says it is a sign of wear but nothing serious.