Eibach vs Bilstein, my opinion.

[crazykid1994]

@ram1500rsm is correct. When the weight of the truck is on the springs it’s still not maxed out on the strut. So the ride height is just shifted up. The way it works is unless you’ve maxed the strut out than you still are under stock compression. You just lose down travel. Most kits don’t recommend more than 2.5-3” lift or you start to kill your ride due to down travel and such. I’ve tested the lift and you can achieve 4.5-5” of lift on stock struts before you max it out on down travel. Hence the reason for only wanting 2.5” of lift max.if you started pushing 4-5” of lift out of the strut than you would be putting more pressure on the strut than the weight of the truck can push down on and would then cause the ride to be harsh and you would have no down travel. That’s why I’m only running 2.5” of lift on my struts. It’s a pretty simple concept. The weight of the truck and the preload setting only effect ride height because it sets a new lower point on your spring perch effectively changing your ride height by that much. If you compress the spring past the point where the weight of your truck can push down on it than that’s when you would have to add more weight to push down.

 

[RamMan381]

I get what your saying guys, you obviously do not understand what I’m saying......

You are correct in most of what you are saying. But spring preload will change the way the shock reacts at the limits of its travel.

By moving the clip up on the shock you literally are preloading the spring.

Pre=before
loading=applying pressure

applying pressure to the spring before vehicle weight.

that is preloading

 

[Ricks Ram]

Crazykidd1994 you are 100% correct. I have had this discussion/disagreement with members in the past who just can't wrap their head around the fact that moving the spring up on the schock only raises the spring rate when the shock is extended to the point that it has no upward travel left when the truck at stock weight is sitting on the ground. I finaly gave up and we just agreed to disagree. I tried to explain it pretty much every way I could think of and I finally just gave up.




Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

 

[crazykid1994]

I get what your saying guys, you obviously do not understand what I’m saying......

You are correct in most of what you are saying. But spring preload will change the way the shock reacts at the limits of its travel.

By moving the clip up on the shock you literally are preloading the spring.

Pre=before
loading=applying pressure

applying pressure to the spring before vehicle weight.

that is preloading

Yes. But that will not effect the vehicles driving characteristics. It’ll still handle the same because the shock valving doesn’t change and under load the spring is still sitting with the same tension on it so therefor the spring rate has not changed.

 

[ram1500rsm]

I get what your saying guys, you obviously do not understand what I’m saying......

You are correct in most of what you are saying. But spring preload will change the way the shock reacts at the limits of its travel.

By moving the clip up on the shock you literally are preloading the spring.

Pre=before
loading=applying pressure

applying pressure to the spring before vehicle weight.

that is preloading

Dude, The spring is already preloaded at the base of the groove. moving the seat in between their allowed range doesn't change a peep of that preload. You're not compressing the spring anymore or any less in any of the grooves. If it was a coilover then yes it might be possible to extend the shock at its max because you get a ton more moving range in the coilover compared to just grooves in any of the adjustable struts that offer lift.

Did you read any of the artices i've posted for you ?
Last one from Accutune has a graphical representation.
for 5100's just invert the shock and imagine the seats at the bottom going up, Lol

 

[RamMan381]

You guys are funny and are fighting your own statements.

yes the spring is already preloaded.

But moving the clip up increases preload on the spring

moving the clip down decreases preload on the spring.

I don’t care about the weight of the truck.

the weight of the truck has nothing to do with preload.

 

[RamMan381]

The force on the spring will be the same set at stock height or 2.8” lift with vehicle weight on it.

But!!!! Read this

If I am hauling ass through the desert and the tires are coming off the ground, preload is what push’s the tire down to make contact.

When a tire comes off the ground the pressure stored in the spring by compressing it to install it “preload”, and the weight of the axle and tire are pushing the tire back to the ground.

This is called preload, to much is bad, to little is bad. There is a sweet spot.

I am not arguing with 90% of what your saying.

The articles you have posted are correct.

But preload is the amount you squish a spring before vehicle weight is applied.

 

[RamMan381]

Basic preload search

 

[crazykid1994]

The force on the spring will be the same set at stock height or 2.8” lift with vehicle weight on it.

But!!!! Read this

If I am hauling ass through the desert and the tires are coming off the ground, preload is what push’s the tire down to make contact.

When a tire comes off the ground the pressure stored in the spring by compressing it to install it “preload”, and the weight of the axle and tire are pushing the tire back to the ground.

This is called preload, to much is bad, to little is bad. There is a sweet spot.

I am not arguing with 90% of what your saying.

The articles you have posted are correct.

But preload is the amount you squish a spring before vehicle weight is applied.

Yes. That is true. I think I misunderstood your argument prior. Thankfully our trucks weigh enough that the preload doesn’t effect much with us. And most people are not jumping their trucks. I’m pretty sure @ram1500rsm is jumping his truck. I’ve gotten air a few times myself. And slow off-roading you won’t feel a difference. I’ve done bilsteins set to 2.1 and the eibach coils and the only difference I felt is how plush the eibach coils feel vs stock coils. Off-roading or hitting dips.

 

[RamMan381]

Dude, The spring is already preloaded at the base of the groove. moving the seat in between their allowed range doesn't change a peep of that preload. You're not compressing the spring anymore or any less in any of the grooves. If it was a coilover then yes it might be possible to extend the shock at its max because you get a ton more moving range in the coilover compared to just grooves in any of the adjustable struts that offer lift.

Did you read any of the artices i've posted for you ?
Last one from Accutune has a graphical representation.
for 5100's just invert the shock and imagine the seats at the bottom going up, Lol

View attachment 200474

View attachment 200473

RAM1500rsm. I do not think you read the article you posted.
https://accutuneoffroad.com/articles/spring-preload-matters/

 

[azcoyote]

Here is a better question, on 4" and 6" lifts where a spacer are used, why aren't larger/longer coilovers used instead? Annnnnd.... GO!

 

[RamMan381]

Can we all get on the same page about this LOL!!

Here are facts

Moving the clip up increases spring preload.

Moving the clip up does not change the force on the spring with vehicle weight applied, when the vehicle is not in motion.

Spring preload will change vehicle dynamics once your suspension starts moving. Especially rebound.

 

[RamMan381]

Here is a better question, on 4" and 6" lifts where a spacer are used, why aren't larger/longer coilovers used instead? Annnnnd.... GO!

Spacers should not be used, bandaid fix.

 

[crazykid1994]

Here is a better question, on 4" and 6" lifts where a spacer are used, why aren't larger/longer coilovers used instead? Annnnnd.... GO!

Well for one some kits do come with longer struts. Procomp has a kit with 6” lifted struts. Bds has a kit with 6” lifted struts

Spacers should not be used, bandaid fix.

I would agree but without changing characteristics on the suspension travel you could overextend the suspension and ruin cv joints or ball joints. They use the spacer to just push down the factory struts to keep factory suspension travel specs at the new ride height.

 

[azcoyote]

Spacers should not be used, bandaid fix.

And yet the basic 4 and 6 inch lifts from BDS/Zone an several others feature a spacer and reuse the factory strut.
Just saying. I realize the BDS has a 6" coilover option that eliminates it entirely. Just always thought the spacer with a 5100 or similar just was wonky.

 

[crazykid1994]

And yet the basic 4 and 6 inch lifts from BDS/Zone an several others feature a spacer and reuse the factory strut.
Just saying. I realize the BDS has a 6" coilover option that eliminates it entirely. Just always thought the spacer with a 5100 or similar just was wonky.

The spacer and lift struts adds height over the specified 6” lift. A lot of people will crank it up to 2.8 and use the 5” spacer from the 6” kit and basically are sitting at 8” and use the 5” rear springs. You can only crank the longer struts up so much so a lot of people don’t choose that option. I’m not sure what max is on the longer struts though as I haven’t done much research into them. I’m happy sitting at 3/1 on my truck and it rides spectacular for what I’ve done to it. Still can’t figure out if I want 6112 bils and 5160 rear resi shocks or to go with a full king kit cranked to 3” up front. Kings are actually 1” longer extended than stock struts which adds more down travel but to the downfall that they’re also 1” longer compressed than stock struts which reduces up travel. I’m leaning towards 6112s but I like my eibach coils on my 5100 bils. They ride very well. It’s a hard tossup for me. I don’t do a lot of high speed running being that I live in south Florida. Most high speed for me is just down washed out dirt roads doing 45-50.

 

[JB1]

And yet the basic 4 and 6 inch lifts from BDS/Zone an several others feature a spacer and reuse the factory strut.
Just saying. I realize the BDS has a 6" coilover option that eliminates it entirely. Just always thought the spacer with a 5100 or similar just was wonky.

The spacers with a drop bracket style lift are merely spacers to make up the height difference.

 

[ram1500rsm]

The force on the spring will be the same set at stock height or 2.8” lift with vehicle weight on it.

But!!!! Read this

If I am hauling ass through the desert and the tires are coming off the ground, preload is what push’s the tire down to make contact.

When a tire comes off the ground the pressure stored in the spring by compressing it to install it “preload”, and the weight of the axle and tire are pushing the tire back to the ground.

This is called preload, to much is bad, to little is bad. There is a sweet spot.

I am not arguing with 90% of what your saying.

The articles you have posted are correct.

But preload is the amount you squish a spring before vehicle weight is applied.

And ???? how did we go from fake-news to you defining the already defined definition of preload.? Hahahaha bla bla bla ? Unless your truck is riding with your struts extended as their complete max where the piston has no way to rebound even further, WTF DO WE CARE ABOUT YOUR DAMN STORY ABOUT PRELOAD ?

 

[RamMan381]

And ???? how did we go from fake-news to you defining the already defined definition of preload.? Hahahaha bla bla bla ? Unless your truck is riding with your struts extended as their complete max where the piston has no way to rebound even further, WTF DO WE CARE ABOUT YOUR DAMN STORY ABOUT PRELOAD ?

Wow your thick headed.

We got here because you said that raising the clip on ride height adjustable struts does not put more preload on the springs........ You still don’t get it.

I’m done explaining, have a good day.

 

[ram1500rsm]

RAM1500rsm. I do not think you read the article you posted.
https://accutuneoffroad.com/articles/spring-preload-matters/

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz, what in there i didn't read ? Go back again to post #25. read it slow... Adjusting preload don't compress the spring..... What are we arguing now ? Lol