GVWR RAM vs...

[Narg]

The government has only safety interest in truck capabilities, but doesn't mandate much. Lawyers, on the other hand, do have a LOT of interest. So manufacturers are forced by court cases to be very up front about GVRW and weights. They don't want to be part of any lawsuit in an accident if you overload your truck, and they state the wrong figures.

I'm like you, also put off by RAMs numbers. From their web site, the Longhorn I have should have 1,600 lbs payload. The door label on mine says 998 lbs. 600 lbs difference! Sure, I added a few things to the truck when I had it built, but I'd expect to loose a couple hundred lbs, not 600. Not too happy about that. If a truck can tow 9,000 lbs, it should be able to handle all it's seats worth of people AND 15% of the trailer (basically what tongue weight should be normally.) So, load the truck up with 4 200 lbs nice guys, plus 1,500 real trailer tongue (not unloaded tongue weight), 2,200 lbs (even more with gear etc.) No 1/2 ton is near doing that in reality (technically maybe, but legally no...) Some on raw stat numbers show they might be able to but I bet their door labels state very differently. The real tow rating for trucks should be much more realistic, or they need to beef up the axels and suspension to match their overstated tow numbers to handle the expected payload.

I kind of wish RAM would do the same as Ford and Chevy and make their 3/4 and 1 ton identical in features more closely. RAMs 1/2 tons are still very different from their 3/4 and 1 ton. That'd make changing up to a 3/4 or higher much easier.

 

[392DevilDog]

Their tow numbers are not overstated. They very specifically show a minimum of passenger and cargo.

Each and every person who tows has a different tow rating.

You need to make the use of the numbers they give.

GVWR GAWR and GCWR do not change.

Options and accesories and passengers and cargo do.

And I say all the time. Towing ratings do not apply to campers. The tow ratings are at 10% tongue weight.

Right off the bat a camper is less. 12 to 15 % tongue weight.


A 1500/2500 max towing is based on a bumper pull with 10 %.

On a 3500 max towing is a gooseneck trailer

A 5th wheel is not the max tow.

It is all explained if you read the towing information.

The configurators are for a sample of what could be.

You then need to take the numbers and see what your actual is.

 

[392DevilDog]

The charts are based off of a tradesman.

The configurators have been updated to calculate trim level. But it is the base for the trim


A longhorn base will have 1600lbs. The The RamBox alone takes away so much payload. Then the MFT even more. Panoramic sunroof looses a good bit of payload to.

And bam before you know it you are under 1000lbs payload.

 

[Quyonmob]

And if it is the government or just the MFG - a Tahoe can out tow any light duty pickup and it has an IRS

When did GM put IRS in a Tahoe? They were solid rear axle as long as I was a GM guy.

1090lbs payload? That is one fat Ram! My 4th Gen crew 4x4 has a payload of 1640lbs, which is about my expectation for a half ton.

 

[NH RAM]

When did GM put IRS in a Tahoe? They were sold rear axle as long as I was a GM guy.

2021 gets IRS in the 'Hoe and 'Burban

 

[Quyonmob]

2021 gets IRS in the 'Hoe and 'Burban

Well that takes me out of that market. Puke.

 

[ramffml]

The Durango with the Hemi is rated to tow up to 8700 pounds, and some models up to 1600 pounds payload. And that's on a unibody, the Tahoe is still body on frame.

 

[j_t_l]

So my shiny new 2020 Ram 1500 Limited has a GVWR of 7100lbs. A pickup truck designed to tow and haul, ok maybe not like 2500 or 3500 but still a pickup truck.

My buddies Tahoe GVWR is 7400lbs, sure it can only tow 8400lbs vs my 11000 but we all know how much that really means.

I think he said it weighs ~5900lbs so technically it can tow a lot more than my RAM at 6000lbs. He has 400 more lbs of payload than me, right off the bat.

The government is so stupid in their regulations.

EDIT: To this point RAM, Ford and Chevy 150(0) are all 7100 GVWR

I'm wondering what would make manufacturers aim for something less than the 8500lbs GVWR that separates EPA's Light Duty vehicle (<=8500 lbs) vs EPA's Medium Duty Vehicle (8501-10000lbs).

It looks like there's this:

Light-Duty Truck 3 and 4: 6,001 – 8,500 lbs.

• Split is based on adjusted loaded vehicle weight (ALVW, the average of the GVWR and the curb weight, which is the weight of the vehicle without passengers or cargo), where:
  • Light-Duty Truck 3: <5,750 lbs. ALVW
  • Light-Duty Truck 4: >5,750 lbs. adjusted ALVW

So maybe a GVWR of 7100 is the magic number to get an ALVW of 5750?

But that doesn't sound right either. Assuming a 1500/f150 truck is going to weigh more than 4400lbs, they're going to be in the "Light-Duty Truck 4" category. So if that's the case, what's preventing them from aiming for the 8500lbs GVWR?

 

[392DevilDog]

I'm wondering what would make manufacturers aim for something less than the 8500lbs GVWR that separates EPA's Light Duty vehicle (<=8500 lbs) vs EPA's Medium Duty Vehicle (8501-10000lbs).

It looks like there's this:

So maybe a GVWR of 7100 is the magic number to get an ALVW of 5750?

But that doesn't sound right either. Assuming a 1500/f150 truck is going to weigh more than 4400lbs, they're going to be in the "Light-Duty Truck 4" category. So if that's the case, what's preventing them from aiming for the 8500lbs GVWR?

Because the axles will nit support them past 7800. And the next set of axles run them to 11500 and would run the base weight up too much if they tried to use them on a 1500

 

[392DevilDog]

In 1997 I believe...maybe til 98...ram had a 7500 3/4 Ton and a 8800 3/4 Ton. At the time the 1/2 ton was 6400. They decided to do away with the light 3/4 ton and really...the new 1/2 ton is 7100...so...what exactly does someone want from a 1/2 ton.

I think the trucks are set up about perfect right now.

 

[Anthony Kalos]

I drive a semi truck and never worry about any trailer unless it is over 45k

 

[ScLeCo]

Chrysler took the unusual step of holding its new Dodge Ram's capabilities where the outgoing models' were. "We did a lot of customer research," explains Ram chief engineer Mike Cairns. "That data showed that well over 90 percent of light-duty truck customers were happy and satisfied with their current tow ratings, well over 80 percent tow less than a 6000-pound trailer, and an overwhelming majority were looking for improved fuel economy. We took that to heart. To improve tow ratings, you're going to add weight and cooling drag, both of which reduce fuel economy, so we didn't think that made sense.

 

[Farmer Fran]

When did GM put IRS in a Tahoe? They were solid rear axle as long as I was a GM guy.

1090lbs payload? That is one fat Ram! My 4th Gen crew 4x4 has a payload of 1640lbs, which is about my expectation for a half ton.

Fully loaded Limited, yes they be heavy!

 

[Farmer Fran]

Chrysler took the unusual step of holding its new Dodge Ram's capabilities where the outgoing models' were. "We did a lot of customer research," explains Ram chief engineer Mike Cairns. "That data showed that well over 90 percent of light-duty truck customers were happy and satisfied with their current tow ratings, well over 80 percent tow less than a 6000-pound trailer, and an overwhelming majority were looking for improved fuel economy. We took that to heart. To improve tow ratings, you're going to add weight and cooling drag, both of which reduce fuel economy, so we didn't think that made sense.

Yeah duh FCA, the tow rating is fine. Mine can "tow" 11000lbs. Who wouldn't be happy. But number is ********. Ask those same people if they want less payload than a Honda Ridgeline.

 

[Farmer Fran]

Well that takes me out of that market. Puke.

Tows more than the outgoing live axle, has a better ride than the live axle and you can fit actual adults in the 3rd row seats.

If you really are in that market you would be crazy not to look at them.

 

[ramffml]

Yeah duh FCA, the tow rating is fine. Mine can "tow" 11000lbs. Who wouldn't be happy. But number is ********. Ask those same people if they want less payload than a Honda Ridgeline.

The Ridgeline can't handle 1500+ pounds. And before you get to that max weight, putting 1000 pounds into a ridgeline is going to be far worse than putting 1000 pounds into a 1500, regardless of what the payload is. The 1500 is far beefier all around and can handle the same weight far better.

Sometimes the numbers don't tell the full story.

 

[Quyonmob]

Tows more than the outgoing live axle, has a better ride than the live axle and you can fit actual adults in the 3rd row seats.

If you really are in that market you would be crazy not to look at them.

Nope. Only interested if they would go to utility over luxury. I hate the market they have priced themselves into.

 

[Farmer Fran]

The Ridgeline can't handle 1500+ pounds. And before you get to that max weight, putting 1000 pounds into a ridgeline is going to be far worse than putting 1000 pounds into a 1500, regardless of what the payload is. The 1500 is far beefier all around and can handle the same weight far better.

Sometimes the numbers don't tell the full story.

While agree, my point was... had FCA mentioned to those "80-90%" that the payload was that of a Honda i bet they would have got a totally different reaction.

 

[ramffml]

While agree, my point was... had FCA mentioned to those "80-90%" that the payload was that of a Honda i bet they would have got a totally different reaction.

Try adding a massive panoramic sunroof, ram boxes, skid plates, a beefy v8, etorque + battery, 4x4 transfer case, 12 inch screen, all the electronics etc to the Ridgeline and recalculate its payload. Guaranteed it will be far less than a loaded limited. It's easy to build a truck with lots of payload when it doesn't have anything mounted to it.

 

[Quyonmob]

Try adding a massive panoramic sunroof, ram boxes, skid plates, a beefy v8, etorque + battery, 4x4 transfer case, 12 inch screen, all the electronics etc to the Ridgeline and recalculate its payload. Guaranteed it will be far less than a loaded limited. It's easy to build a truck with lots of payload when it doesn't have anything mounted to it.

exactly my 4th Gen at 1640lbs, lol.