Synthetic Oil

[Burla]

Hemi Lifter controversy, funny how more then half this forum doesn't think there isn't one, lol. His "research" is 5% of hemi's have cam/lifter issues, I's like to know his research. Mom and Pop's don't have their data in any "research", so likely he gets those numbers from working when he was working at fca. And most trucks that get worked on by dealer are newer, so just imagine the numbers that didnt make his research if 5% of newer hemi's die the cam/lifter death.

Damn painful to get to point, guys just fast forward 13 minutes. As if I needed another reason to hate mds. I think he's hookie, turn all mds all the time is his answer. The entire reason there is an issue according to him is the mds lifter and what they did to it to make sure is sits on the cam lob when oil aint there, spring this spring that.

It just seams to me it is a complex engine, and that is the nature of it's problem. He has no answers for anything, just guesses, and doesn't even make a guess if you do away with mds will you avoid the issue, and his answer is well HP applications tend to break down. Yeah, but the average guy just wants a long lived engine, so would making it High Performance but using like a grown up make the engine last longer? It is interesting, the main takeaway is for a possible answer turn on mds all the time, without ever even having done it himself or any info, I can only say I will not guinea pig that one. Why not just make it a 4 cylinder in the first place? Good find Corey, but I'm not convinced. Many other trucks out there with no mds just don't have lifter issues, how do they accomplish that.

Clearly he thinks there is a lubrication issue.

 

[Burla]

This was his thoughts on his 5% guessimate... Like I thought, his guess that 5% is from just working at a dealer on newer trucks. Here's the thing, I don't really have a guess, how's that. Why bring it up if you have no concrete evidence? Just a thought.

No scientific data, just my own observations from keeping track the last few years at the dealers I've worked at. It's admittedly not the most concrete, but I've found that whatever dealer you are working at you can generally get a good feel for the amount of issues based on month to month data.

 

[Octane]

This was his thoughts on his 5% guessimate... Like I thought, his guess that 5% is from just working at a dealer on newer trucks. Here's the thing, I don't really have a guess, how's that. Why bring it up if you have no concrete evidence? Just a thought.

No scientific data, just my own observations from keeping track the last few years at the dealers I've worked at. It's admittedly not the most concrete, but I've found that whatever dealer you are working at you can generally get a good feel for the amount of issues based on month to month data.

5% is a big failure rate.

 

[Hemi395]

I just reenabled MDS via HPTuners and went for a drive. I was monitoring the MDS solenoids with my scan tool and found that they are activated while coasting quite a bit. I have no idea why it would matter if it's in MDS while coasting since fuel delivery is at a minimum or cutoff completely. Only thing I can think of is it's there to give the lifters a shot of oil.

Sounds like the best case scenario for would be to do a full MDS delete with a non MDS cam/lifters and put the solenoid plugs in so it gets oil there all the time.

Completely speculating here but it seems reasonable....

 

[Hemi395]

For those that don't know my truck started to get a passengers side hot idle tick. To the point where the wife pointed it out to me. I was dropping the wife off at a store and you could clearly hear it ticking off the side of the store. She asked me if it was supposed to make that noise. When she notices a noise I start to look into it.

Long story short, I was prepping to do a cam lifter swap and then this past weekend it quieted up quite a bit. Still there, but not to the point where the avg person wouldn't notice. I have no idea why.

Fast forward to today and after seeing that video I enabled MDS and went for a drive. Got back and took this video. Passengers side is definitely louder than the drivers but to hear I literally had to shove my phone up against the wheel well liner and got Fluid Film all over it. Standing next to the fender you really have to listen to hear it. Also, I have shorty headers so any valvetrain noise is really noticeable compared to the manifolds.

So yeah at this point if there are people disabling MDS by way of a tuner, hitting T/H, or selecting a gear every time you drive, I would recommend not doing that.

 

[stevenram]

So is the consensus to leave mds on for better lubrications?

 

[HEMIMANN]

I just reenabled MDS via HPTuners and went for a drive. I was monitoring the MDS solenoids with my scan tool and found that they are activated while coasting quite a bit. I have no idea why it would matter if it's in MDS while coasting since fuel delivery is at a minimum or cutoff completely. Only thing I can think of is it's there to give the lifters a shot of oil.

Sounds like the best case scenario for would be to do a full MDS delete with a non MDS cam/lifters and put the solenoid plugs in so it gets oil there all the time.

Completely speculating here but it seems reasonable....

Uh oh.

You think maybe the oil port to the MDS unlock push pin might push oil down onto the roller? Think you should post a sticky or something for all us tuners shutting off MDS? (I'm too cheap to get an OBDII reader).

 

[Hemi395]

So is the consensus to leave mds on for better lubrications?

After seeing how all the lifters get pressurized oil during MDS operation, I would say yes.....

 

[Hemi395]

Uh oh.

You think maybe the oil port to the MDS unlock push pin might push oil down onto the roller? Think you should post a sticky or something for all us tuners shutting off MDS? (I'm too cheap to get an OBDII reader).

Yeah, thats exactly what I said when I saw that since I've had MDS turned off for a couple years now.

I'm going to run my truck like this for awhile before I go and post that. I want to see what happens with after a few weeks or a month...

 

[HEMIMANN]

Thanks for headsup, Hemi395.

I think I'll flip mine back on for now.

 

[grizzstang]

Not sure I buy this. Most 5.7 Hemi owners don’t even know how to turn the MDS off yet they still have cam and lifter failures. How many people that turn it off religiously (like me) or tune it out have failures? We don’t really know.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[tidefan1967]

For those that don't know my truck started to get a passengers side hot idle tick. To the point where the wife pointed it out to me. I was dropping the wife off at a store and you could clearly hear it ticking off the side of the store. She asked me if it was supposed to make that noise. When she notices a noise I start to look into it.

Long story short, I was prepping to do a cam lifter swap and then this past weekend it quieted up quite a bit. Still there, but not to the point where the avg person wouldn't notice. I have no idea why.

Fast forward to today and after seeing that video I enabled MDS and went for a drive. Got back and took this video. Passengers side is definitely louder than the drivers but to hear I literally had to shove my phone up against the wheel well liner and got Fluid Film all over it. Standing next to the fender you really have to listen to hear it. Also, I have shorty headers so any valvetrain noise is really noticeable compared to the manifolds.

So yeah at this point if there are people disabling MDS by way of a tuner, hitting T/H, or selecting a gear every time you drive, I would recommend not doing that.

Sounds pretty normal for an engine with headers to me, like you said headers really do amplify the **** out of valvetrain noise. I did the first oil change on the wife's JGC last weekend and was tempted to leave the engine cover off but it was just too noisy so I put it back on. By the way I went with Rotella Gas Truck 5W20 instead of the recommended 0W20. I had a bunch of that RGT that Advance had on sale early last year for like $2 a quart to use.

 

[U&A]

Going to get worse before it gets better. What is wrong with this world. Now the news is giving parenting advice and tips.....!!!!!!

Cant see it in the pic but this is on the news EVERY DAY now!!


Make sure they get good sleep
Feed them breakfast
Get them ready for school

No JOKE!!! That was the advice today

Up next. The Gestapo will be at your door taking what they think you dont need.



Sent while firmly grasping my redline lubed RAM [emoji231]

 

[Hemi395]

Not sure I buy this. Most 5.7 Hemi owners don’t even know how to turn the MDS off yet they still have cam and lifter failures. How many people that turn it off religiously (like me) or tune it out have failures? We don’t really know.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah I hear you, this would mean everyone that tunes out MDS should be having lifter failures.

Only thing I can think of is most people that tune their trucks also run them harder than the avg person which higher RPMs gives the cam more splash lubrication from the crank, higher oil pressure, etc.

Either way I'll run with MDS turned on for awhile and see what happens....

 

[Burla]

5% is a big failure rate.

10-15% would be real ****** then.

For those that don't know my truck started to get a passengers side hot idle tick. To the point where the wife pointed it out to me. I was dropping the wife off at a store and you could clearly hear it ticking off the side of the store. She asked me if it was supposed to make that noise. When she notices a noise I start to look into it.

Long story short, I was prepping to do a cam lifter swap and then this past weekend it quieted up quite a bit. Still there, but not to the point where the avg person wouldn't notice. I have no idea why.

Fast forward to today and after seeing that video I enabled MDS and went for a drive. Got back and took this video. Passengers side is definitely louder than the drivers but to hear I literally had to shove my phone up against the wheel well liner and got Fluid Film all over it. Standing next to the fender you really have to listen to hear it. Also, I have shorty headers so any valvetrain noise is really noticeable compared to the manifolds.

So yeah at this point if there are people disabling MDS by way of a tuner, hitting T/H, or selecting a gear every time you drive, I would recommend not doing that.

so redline failed and mds is good, man this thread went into a different direction

So just turning on mds pressurized the lifters? What info does it give back for mds solenoid? Looking forward to hearing how it does long term, if the tick is really gone, thanks.

 

[Hemi395]

10-15% would be real ****** then.



so redline failed and mds is good, man this thread went into a different direction

So just turning on mds pressurized the lifters? What info does it give back for mds solenoid? Looking forward to hearing how it does long term, if the tick is really gone, thanks.

I wouldn't say Redline failed per se, I'm surprised it took until 69k for it to come back TBH. My tick started around 2000miles if I remember right.

This time It was never the loud tapping sound it was on PP 5w20 back then, it was just louder than it had been on RL since then...

So for now turning MDS back on for me is free so I'll run it that way. If it doesn't work I'll be doing a full MDS delete with Hellcat lifters[emoji106]

 

[Burla]

What we know about redline is that is less effective in high mileage trucks, we know for a fact, the % goes way down. What we didn't know is if all of us on redline were going to avoid issues long term. It appears that when tolerances widen, the magic in the voodoo goes away. And in your case that would be bad because the "fix" may not be desirable due to the cold, my guess is going up in visc would help. So for now rock the mds, whatever works.

 

[HEMIMANN]

What we know about redline is that is less effective in high mileage trucks, we know for a fact, the % goes way down. What we didn't know is if all of us on redline were going to avoid issues long term. It appears that when tolerances widen, the magic in the voodoo goes away. And in your case that would be bad because the "fix" may not be desirable due to the cold, my guess is going up in visc would help. So for now rock the mds, whatever works.

Seems to be sufficient evidence that Redline helps - how much and for how long is anybody's guess without a costly, time-consuming endurance test like we used to do. Since FCA ain't playin' ball with us, I guess we just share experiences the best we can.

I appreciate everybody's input! I'm still bothered by the whole hemi oiling system - I googled it and didn't find enough detail to assess. I can't see if all 16 lifter bores are ported with an oil galley, or only the 8 MDS bores. I can't find if MDS lifters are in all 16, or only the 8. This engine is a hidden enigma known only to those that caused the problem. Stinks.

 

[Murphy Slaw]

So wait.

Now we're supposed to leave the mds on?

I forget to turn it off about half the time, so I should be good......

 

[grizzstang]

I drove a third of the way to work today with the MDS on then shut it off at a stop light.

The hesitation drives me crazy when coming off MDS.

I think I would rather replace the cam and lifters than drive a 4 cylinder full size truck.