Synthetic Oil

[SyN]

Ram Designs: From I just read the pro synthetic filters are made for synthetic oil and guaranteed up to 15K miles. I would say yes very similar.

 

[SlowRoller]

Fram Pro Series

http://www.autoserviceprofessional....es-filter-program-for-professional-installers

IMHO, probably the same/similar guts,, no 'filter grip' coating,,,, Different packaging.

Most likely offered at a 'significantly lower unit price' when sold in quantity, with auto servicing/auto repair shops as the intended market.

 

[Irrivirsible]

My owners manual says recommended for the MS 6395 spec but it also says recommended for Mopar oil filter and you don't have to use that. Maybe in the end it wouldn't be an issue unless they just wanted to play games. It does not say mandatory.

 

[Burla]

Fram Pro series looks like they are going backwards, leave it to Fram, lol. The one thing they had on RP was grip. Hey, lets take the cool grip off the filter, lol. What a bunch of idiots! I bet if you pulled it apart Royal Purple filters would be better in every way. I will stay with RP for now.

 

[Talon_66]

How do K&N oil filters stack up in the debate?

 

[Burla]

I think K&N haven't embraced synthetic media yet. I think their powersports line is synthetic, but no option yet for the 5.7 last i checked. Funny, their "pro" line costs the same as their powersports line, but doesn't say synthetic. The more people know the difference, you would have to be brain dead to use paper filters. Most of the paper filters even say 3 months max. Paper degrades under hot oil, go figure. Spun glass never degrades. So I'm gonna risk engine wear over the 5 bucks difference even though the filter lasts a minimum of 4 times longer? Even longer then that but at some point you are at risk of clogging, usually would get a hint on the dip stick though. If you don't like the Royal Purple name, I'd opt for Amsoil synthetic filters. Haven't used them personally, but RP and Amsoil really did good on a recent filter test, Fram not so much.

 

[Burla]

Fran Toilet Paper oil Filter.

 

[SlowRoller]

Most of the paper filters even say 3 months max.

Please post the links to filters that say '3 months max'

 

[Burla]

Most of the paper filters even say 3 months max.

Please post the links to filters that say '3 months max'

Again? I have posted many. Instead I'll do you one better, you post up a paper filter that recommends more then 3 months.

 

[SlowRoller]

Again? I have posted many. Instead I'll do you one better, you post up a paper filter that recommends more then 3 months.

That's too easy,,,
1. Because I've never seen any manufacturer ever indicate their oil filter has a 3 month maximum life span,,,
2. How about the OEM filters? All one has to do is read the owners manual and see 3 months filter change intervals were NEVER a requirement, nor were synthetic filters.
3. Literally MILLIONS of folks have run Frams OCOD for several decades before today with far, far, far longer than 3 months on them without issues,,, (And there has never been any 3 month warning on them since the canister filter was invented, so???)

OK, Your turn,,

Show us a manufacturer that says their filter is only good for 3 months,,,

Show us ANY manufacturer that says their filter is only good for 3 months,,

Not some ~article~ off the net, but a manufacturer that indicates 3 months max. is all they recommend for the product they sell.

According to your statement of 'most filters,, 3 months,,,',, that should be easy enough to find, right?

 

[Burla]

Purolator PureONE oil filters should be replaced every 3,000 miles or 3 months depending on the driving condition

You will see this one most paper filters.

 

[SlowRoller]

You conveniently forgot or unless otherwise specified by the vehicle's manufacturer. Which pretty much means the '3 month part' applies to nothing made by any major automobile manufacturer.

And,,, The Purolator Pure One is one of their 'mid-grade' filters with a fiberglass enhanced paper media, so it's not just 'paper',,,

So are you now implying a synthetic blend filter is only good for 3,000 miles???

No such verbiage on the Puro Classic page, or the Puro Synthetic page. Apparently, time isn't a factor with Classics pure paper or the full synthetic media in the eyes of Purolater,,,

So why just Pure One???

So, at face value, this example only ~applies~ to the Pure One semi-synthetic filter used on vehicles that either do not have owners manuals or do have manuals that require an oil filter change at least every 3 months,,,,,,,,,,, (Have yet to see anything like that,,,) ,,,,,,,,,, and pretty much nothing else,,,,

Damn Burla, as far as 'proof' that paper filters have a 3 month life span,,,, that's a helluva 'stretch',,, even for ole Stretch Armstrong,,,,,,,

 

[hemihustlin]

Nobody said you will suffer catastrophic engine failure at 3 months and 1 day but if you cut open cheap filters after a few months service you will see that the condition is far from optimum. The pleats are spread and/or twisted and sometimes there are small tears depending on the application.
Upon cutting a syn filter after over 1 year in service you will remark that it is in excellent condition on the inside.
I prefer using a high quality filter and leaving it on for 2 oil changes. It saves time and resources not to mention filtering better over its service life.

So the real debate here is wether having a few extra microscopic pieces of dirt in circulation over the life of a vehicle is detrimental or not.

 

[RAM_Designs]

Fram Pro series looks like they are going backwards, leave it to Fram, lol. The one thing they had on RP was grip. Hey, lets take the cool grip off the filter, lol. What a bunch of idiots! I bet if you pulled it apart Royal Purple filters would be better in every way. I will stay with RP for now.

I was thinking about getting them since I can get them for about $6.50 each when buying 6 at a time. I gave a Fram filter wrench, so no grip is no biggie for me. I probably leave mine loose enough to get it off without needing the grip anyways (if I have clean hands). If they're the same filter inside, which I have seen people claim...then hell I'll get a couple 6 packs and be set for a good while. Might even have to start using synthetic oil to double my OCI and really cut down on costs.

 

[Burla]

Gotta change your name to slow troller cause u just want to start a fight again. It's all good, common sense says you shouldn't leave a paper filter in hot oil for a long time, and if you follow my advice you never would use paper, whereas some members think they are great. Each guy should use his common sense and go off that. My common sense says run synthetic filters and oil. Another cam lob collapse thread is in the forum, probably couldn't be avoided shrug.

 

[Burla]

So the real debate here is wether having a few extra microscopic pieces of dirt in circulation over the life of a vehicle is detrimental or not.

Not really, all of the micron ratings are on brand new paper, even after a month 20 micron filter goes out the window. Whereas glass doesn't change at all, unless maybe gets more efficient as carbon builds up. Literally the only reason not to use synthetic fiber filter is upfront cost. Slow roller doesn't even believe in cutting open his filters, says it doesn't prove anything. Maybe he works for the paper industry, lol. He says don't bother testing your own stuff and don't listen to people who test their stuff unless it is over at Bobs then it is legit. Burla doing a bil ol Yawn.

I give him the last word on it, no reason to keep going on about synthetic versus paper filters. For my part at mucking up the discussion, I apologize to the forum, not to the guy who wants a constant fight about stupid stuff.

 

[rocket]

Nobody said you will suffer catastrophic engine failure at 3 months and 1 day but if you cut open cheap filters after a few months service you will see that the condition is far from optimum. The pleats are spread and/or twisted and sometimes there are small tears depending on the application.
Upon cutting a syn filter after over 1 year in service you will remark that it is in excellent condition on the inside.oil changes. It saves time and resources not to mention filtering better over its service life.

I prefer using a high quality filter and leaving it on for 2
So the real debate here is wether having a few extra microscopic pieces of dirt in circulation over the life of a vehicle is detrimental or not.

I've actually done this, albeit on my motorcycle........was wondering if it did any harm at all...

 

[Irrivirsible]

Like anything else i n life arguments can be made for both sides. The vehicles with oil life monitors usually go several thousand miles and I believe most manufacturer branded oil filters are paper and anyone going to the dealership or other places to have their oil changed unless specified are going to get paper. I don't think the oil life monitor is going to go off at 3000 miles if there is a paper filter in there. I do however understand the argument you are making for the better oil filters.

 

[SlowRoller]

Not really, all of the micron ratings are on brand new paper, even after a month 20 micron filter goes out the window. Whereas glass doesn't change at all, unless maybe gets more efficient as carbon builds up. stuff.

That statement in itself only proves your skillset in regards to filtering or how usage affects particulate removal.

You do make a few accurate points here and there, but the amount of speculation and misinformation you spread in between really is telling.

Why would I feel that way?

I research oil and filters on a website that has 811 PAGES of threads just about automotive oil filters,,, Close to 200,000 posts just on automotive oil filtration,,,,

Soon, we'll be closing in on 900,000 posts just on automotive oil,,,

These are just (2) subjects out of (46) on the site that deal with all kinds of lubrication/filtration.

But hey, if you feel you have a skillset superior to the combined knowledge of that website, and wish to portray that skillset here, eh,,, more power to ya!

But,, as nothing has changed, once again, it's time to put you back on the "I" list,,,

 

[SlowRoller]

I've actually done this, albeit on my motorcycle........was wondering if it did any harm at all...

Some Yamaha motorcycles call for that. Oil at each 4k and filter at 8k intervals.

Some Honda cars are like that as well. It's called Schedule A and Schedule B maintenance. Oil twice, filter once.

One 'assumed caveat' is that some used oil is left behind in the filter. Yes, some oil is left behind, but it's not like you are getting 100% out otherwise.

One example: My Honda MC, when assembled in the factory, initially holds 5 quarts. (Also takes 5 qts after a full disassembly). It only takes 4 quarts for an oil and filter change thereafter. 1 qt of used oil (20%) stays inside after each oil change for the entire life of the engine. Even with that percentage of used oil, (and a shared sump to boot) , the engines will run 100k + like it's nothing,,,