torque converter and valve body questions.

Disclaimer: Links on this page pointing to Amazon, eBay and other sites may include affiliate code. If you click them and make a purchase, we may earn a small commission.

jag1886

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2015
Posts
434
Reaction score
123
Location
Boise Id Gods country
Ram Year
2014
Engine
Demi 5.7 S&B CAI, flowmaster merge collector, Gibson cat back, oil catch can, 87
I see people using 3000 stall converters and my questions on these are, do they act like a stock converter until you brake and bring up the revs and do they hurt gas milage?
I also see people do valve body modifications, what does this do? I've asked a couple of times but no seems to have an answer.
 

hemihustlin

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2013
Posts
1,721
Reaction score
1,316
Location
Lower Southwest Quebec
Ram Year
2021
Engine
5.7 HEMI
I used my google-fu to locate some OK info from allpar

so you already have a car with an automatic, or want one which only comes with a "slushbox" (so named because the engine's power has to travel through "slush," or, more accurately, oil). What can you do? Most people do not want to retrofit their car with a manual, or can't. Hence the shift kit for better shifts, and the manual valve body for "manumatics." Or, as Ean Orsel wrote...

Manual Valve Body: Turns your auto tranny into a partial-manual tranny.
Shift Kit: Makes your auto tranny do the exact same thing it does now, but better.
(There does not appear to be a manual valve body for the four-speed electronic automatic used by current Chrysler, Dodge, and Plymouth front-wheel-drive vehicles, since it does not have a valve body as such, according to Damien Civiello.)

Shift kits
Steve Knickerbocker wrote that "Smooth shifting transmissions accomplish [smoother shifting] by being in two gears at once when shifting up. It's known as shift overlap. Shift kits reduce or eliminate the shift overlap and speed up actuation of the shift, hence the harder feel to the shift. A shift kit will reduce wear because you won't have the trans trying to be in two gears at once."

Ross Bond wrote: "A firm shift is best for the transmission, the biggest problem with the 604, is the clutches are slipped so much between shifts, which gives you a very smooth shift, but makes lots of heat and wears out the seals and clutches a lot faster. Also 1994 and older cars are running on software in the controller which is bad for the transmission. They have what is called EMCC, this means an electrically modulated converter clutch, which partially locks up the torque converter to reduce slippage and fuel economy loss in the lower gears, but think about the heat that the converter clutch is making when it is partially applied. Which in turn kills the seals in the transmission. Some controllers are flashable and some are not. You can update to the newer ones in an older vehicle." ... "you can tell if the controller is flashable by looking at it. It is usually on the pass fenderwell. If it has cooling fins on the side of it, it is flashable. "

There appears to be a shift kit for the A-604/Ultradrive transmission, which seems to be based on replacing or upgrading the current computer. Damien Civillo wrote:

As I understood the shift kit it was similar to one for a standard transmission in that it replaced/modified some of the parts in the stock valve body so that the fluid flow is different. In other words, since the valves monitor/control fluid flow in the valvebody (the valves are electronic rather then hydraulic) this kit changed the way fluid flows through the valve body so that it modifies the input signals and tricks the tranny into behaving differently. Sort of like the boost bleed switches that some people rig up. We're just tricking the tranny into thinking that something else is happening when it's not.

Should answer most of your questions. If not give you more :p
 

Hemi_Express2013

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2013
Posts
728
Reaction score
375
Location
Nantucket, Ma
Ram Year
2013
Engine
Hemi 5.7
These 2 mods, I did almost immediately from new. What it's like, what are the difference from stock is very hard to remember. Part throttle the TC acts a lot like stock but it's easy to bring the rpms up without building much speed. When I punch it, I lock up at or around 3500-3800. When I lock up at those rpms I'm in or approaching (4200) peak torque on my truck. Means I'm in the power at lock up. If I power brake, wheels dont spin till around 2800-300 The valve body puts the tranny in gear faster, less lag between gears, less slush, less clutch slipping = less heat, longer tranny life, almost a manual feel to it. I've forgot what stock feels like, but I hope this helps. I'm sure someone will add much more to this description.
 

2015HemiSport

Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2015
Posts
35
Reaction score
14
Location
Colorado
Ram Year
2015
Engine
Hemi 5.7
Modified valve bodies will also increase line pressure. Increased line pressure= increased clamping force on the clutches which in turn will cause less slipping and longer trans life and better power holding abilities.
 
OP
OP
jag1886

jag1886

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2015
Posts
434
Reaction score
123
Location
Boise Id Gods country
Ram Year
2014
Engine
Demi 5.7 S&B CAI, flowmaster merge collector, Gibson cat back, oil catch can, 87
OK this helps but surely this isn't a manual valve body you guys are talking about. That would be a total pain the butt. No one knows about the hit if there is one on milage? I don't mind that it gets pretty bad milage now but not to willing to give up more.
 

charonblk07

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 14, 2013
Posts
4,056
Reaction score
2,088
Location
Calgary, Ab
Ram Year
2009
Engine
F1-A forged 349ci
Fuel mileage: small hit but no real issues with 3000 or lower stall converter on a street driven vehicle. Just remember with a factory 2600 stall you need to rev to 2600 to really get the vehicle moving from a stop on flat ground, same thing happens with a higher stall converter. You'll move but not that fast until you get to your stall rpm then you'll really get moving. The higher your stall the higher your rpm needs to be to really get going, too high and you'll be running high rpm and burning more fuel before you even get moving in the first place.

My 2800 converter actually flashes at 3400 since I put the blower on it, I can now sit at a light with my foot off the brake and I don't go anywhere until about 3000 rpm.

Valve bodies won't affect fuel mileage, but you'll get much faster shifts which reduces the rpm drop between gears. Over a long enough period you MAY see some fuel economy increase but I wouldn't even be looking for it there.
 

Hemi_Express2013

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2013
Posts
728
Reaction score
375
Location
Nantucket, Ma
Ram Year
2013
Engine
Hemi 5.7
OP
OP
jag1886

jag1886

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2015
Posts
434
Reaction score
123
Location
Boise Id Gods country
Ram Year
2014
Engine
Demi 5.7 S&B CAI, flowmaster merge collector, Gibson cat back, oil catch can, 87
Just remember with a factory 2600 stall

Are you saying the factory stock converter stalls at 2600. That seems real high for a stock converter.
 

Hemi450hp

Moe's Performance
Joined
Jul 17, 2012
Posts
9,421
Reaction score
4,709
Location
Conroe, TX
Ram Year
2014 Ram 1500
Engine
Whipple Supercharged 422" Hemi
The 6sp RT trucks came stock with a 2600 stall converter, but the regular converter flashes closer to 1900-2000 rpms.
 

HammerHead

USMC 0313
Joined
Feb 18, 2015
Posts
2,284
Reaction score
2,834
Location
Georgia/Florida
Ram Year
2019 4Runner
Engine
4.0
I like my stage 2, not harsh on the street but I wouldn't mind trying the stage 3 either. I only know the stage 2 has good street performance manners.

I spoke with the guys at SharaDon and they recommended a 2.5... They said if it's a daily driver / weekend track truck somewhere between II and III would be ideal. Only thing is I have to send my VB in to have it worked so my truck will be sitting in the garage. If I go that route I'll report back will y'all.
 

hemidup

Senior Member
Joined
May 3, 2014
Posts
150
Reaction score
42
Ram Year
2005
Engine
Supercharged 6.4 Hemi
I spoke with the guys at SharaDon and they recommended a 2.5... They said if it's a daily driver / weekend track truck somewhere between II and III would be ideal. Only thing is I have to send my VB in to have it worked so my truck will be sitting in the garage. If I go that route I'll report back will y'all.

Not to bash sharadon, but I'm the guy that helped develop and built the sharadon valve bodies years ago and the one who currently builds the Super Street Performance valve bodies. There's no such thing as stages in the Gen 4 valve bodies as there is in the Gen 3's. You can only modify the Gen 4 valve body one way. The same way I built Matt's at Moe's and Matt can attest that it works. In fact I currenty have two sharadon stage 2 1/2 Gen 4 valve bodies at the shop that were sent to me by sharadon customers because after they were built they were no better than stock. Just sayin.
 

HammerHead

USMC 0313
Joined
Feb 18, 2015
Posts
2,284
Reaction score
2,834
Location
Georgia/Florida
Ram Year
2019 4Runner
Engine
4.0
Not to bash sharadon, but I'm the guy that helped develop and built the sharadon valve bodies years ago and the one who currently builds the Super Street Performance valve bodies. There's no such thing as stages in the Gen 4 valve bodies as there is in the Gen 3's. You can only modify the Gen 4 valve body one way. The same way I built Matt's at Moe's and Matt can attest that it works. In fact I currenty have two sharadon stage 2 1/2 Gen 4 valve bodies at the shop that were sent to me by sharadon customers because after they were built they were no better than stock. Just sayin.

PM sent...
 
Back
Top