Another stuck roller lifter?

[crockett]

I apologize that you are experiencing this, @crockett. If you do work with your dealer, I am more than happy to escalate a case on your behalf for further support through that process.

Mark
RamCares

Thank you for offering Mark.

That being said, all my reading concluded that there is no real long-term fix. New parts will suffer the same fate due to a design failure in the engineering process. And I can confirm the issue just by seeing those affected parts and the block from watching videos. I hold a degree in Engineering, and used to work for Benz in Research & Development, in Germany. I was at home with the C, SLK and SL class.

The lifters in the current 5.7 HEMI don't see enough oil, so they get slightly stuck at times, matching marks can be seen on those lifters, then the needle bearings in the roller gets a beating from the cam lobe, and once the roller collapses and gets stuck, the lobe on the cam gets destroyed. All with metal shavings to be distributed throughout the entire engine, causing more long-term harm to other bearings and contact surfaces.

I bought this truck new and planned to keep it around until the wheels fall off. This plan will not work out with such a questionable engine design. Hence I will not keep a new vehicle around that needs major repair from the get go, because my trust is lost at that point, especially considering that repairs don't fix this issue.

You could do me (or us) a favor though: please provide some feedback to upper management (not executive office, that's just a firewall to keep the noise away from the decision makers, aka board members). There REALLY is a new and developing demand for 2 markets / buyer groups:


1.) We need a small and simple truck again. All half tons are monster trucks compared to small pickups of the past. Not everybody wants to tow a 12k trailer. What so many have been asking for, for years, is a truck with these features:

- regular cab
- long bed
- much smaller than the current Ford Ranger
- 4 banger turbo diesel
- manual
- 4WD optional
- lockable diffs optional
- no luxury nonsense
- max $22k


2.) We need quality and reliability over features and design elements.

 

[Dodge 1500 4X4]

my 2020 truck is a tiny bit louder than the 2011 Durango that i have. the 2011 Durango makes a tick at startup then a few seconds latter is absolutely quiet.

a question for you all. with my new truck 2020 rebel, i got all of the extended warranties etc. the first oil change is at 5,000 miles (included at dealer) should i just go ahead and do my own or just wait?

right now its got 400 miles, so i think everything needs to break in some more.

Please for your own preventive maintenance get rid of that factory oil and put some redline 5w-30w full synthetic and a royal purple or K/N oil filter W synthetic media and silicone anti drain back valve, and 15oz of LubeGard Biotech engine protectant W/Moly you'll sleep better.

 

[pacofortacos]

Yeah, I would go with a different oil and filter. On my truck, the filter has a lot to do with any lifter noise at start up.
The lifter is one of the last things to get oil, so if your anti drain back valve in the filter is not up to *****, the oil drains out and you end up filling the lifter with air and air/oil combo for the first bit.

Also as far as extended oil changes - well I won't go there.

 

[pacofortacos]

Thank you for offering Mark.

That being said, all my reading concluded that there is no real long-term fix. New parts will suffer the same fate due to a design failure in the engineering process. And I can confirm the issue just by seeing those affected parts and the block from watching videos. I hold a degree in Engineering, and used to work for Benz in Research & Development, in Germany. I was at home with the C, SLK and SL class.

The lifters in the current 5.7 HEMI don't see enough oil, so they get slightly stuck at times, matching marks can be seen on those lifters, then the needle bearings in the roller gets a beating from the cam lobe, and once the roller collapses and gets stuck, the lobe on the cam gets destroyed. All with metal shavings to be distributed throughout the entire engine, causing more long-term harm to other bearings and contact surfaces.

I bought this truck new and planned to keep it around until the wheels fall off. This plan will not work out with such a questionable engine design. Hence I will not keep a new vehicle around that needs major repair from the get go, because my trust is lost at that point, especially considering that repairs don't fix this issue.

You could do me (or us) a favor though: please provide some feedback to upper management (not executive office, that's just a firewall to keep the noise away from the decision makers, aka board members). There REALLY is a new and developing demand for 2 markets / buyer groups:


1.) We need a small and simple truck again. All half tons are monster trucks compared to small pickups of the past. Not everybody wants to tow a 12k trailer. What so many have been asking for, for years, is a truck with these features:

- regular cab
- long bed
- much smaller than the current Ford Ranger
- 4 banger turbo diesel
- manual
- 4WD optional
- lockable diffs optional
- no luxury nonsense
- max $22k


2.) We need quality and reliability over features and design elements.

You do realize that a very small percentage of hemi engines actually have cam failure, don't you?
It isn't a "fatal flaw" that some would have you believe. If it was then the vast majority would fail.

 

[buddy guy]

For the people who run into this issue and the dealer won't fix it for whatever reason, I think ots safe to say they would consider it to be a "fatal flaw".

From an engineering perspective, when it happens it indeed would be a flaw in design, fatal where the cost is prohibitive to repair by the owner if the dealer won't[emoji2] and fatal as well in the sense it can not only wreck cams & lifters, but can effectively destroy a motor (as I understand it anyway, if FCA in some cases has just replaced the motor).

If it turns out largely to be lubrication related fixable only by the customer having to do a number of things..ie..no idle time, keeping the engine above a certain rpm manually, using an oil & filter that fca won't endorse or you could break your warranty, thats a fatal flaw in design & response to the issue.

Sent from my SM-N960W using Tapatalk

 

[crockett]

Yeah, I would go with a different oil and filter. On my truck, the filter has a lot to do with any lifter noise at start up.
The lifter is one of the last things to get oil, so if your anti drain back valve in the filter is not up to *****, the oil drains out and you end up filling the lifter with air and air/oil combo for the first bit.

Also as far as extended oil changes - well I won't go there.

What filter do you suggest?

 

[crockett]

You do realize that a very small percentage of hemi engines actually have cam failure, don't you?
It isn't a "fatal flaw" that some would have you believe. If it was then the vast majority would fail.

Wrong, it is a major design failure, as I explained above, period.

 

[Burla]

There is no tracking of this issue in mom and pop shops, and because they are much cheaper, this is where all the hemi's are getting fixed. Lifters on back order everywhere, and every mechanic with an internet presence knows about cam lifter issues. Also, dealers play the hopefully the tick wont fail in warranty game and call hemi tick normal.

When you look at uncle tony's video, it's clear as day, this is a bad design. Almost every lifter in a hemi is scuffed, mechanics have never seen this from any other application. Perpendicular force on all hemi lifters, lack of lubrication that causes the lifter to **** in the cavity. You know, many guys that sell everything for hemi engines including RF sponsors, simply don't sell lifters, LOL. They freaking opted out! They can sell you a new lifter, and it will tick like the old ones, because of the design, so they just opt out. They will sell you a cam, or anything else in your engine, but they wont even sell you lifters.

 

[parkerbows]

loved my 2013 ram 1500. but 2 friends had this problem and it was just I didn't trust it anymore. both paid around 5 grand.
I honestly don't know anyone else that had any other brand of truck that had to put that kind of money in their trucks with less than 90 thousand miles

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

 

[Wild one]

There is no tracking of this issue in mom and pop shops, and because they are much cheaper, this is where all the hemi's are getting fixed. Lifters on back order everywhere, and every mechanic with an internet presence knows about cam lifter issues. Also, dealers play the hopefully the tick wont fail in warranty game and call hemi tick normal.

When you look at uncle tony's video, it's clear as day, this is a bad design. Almost every lifter in a hemi is scuffed, mechanics have never seen this from any other application. Perpendicular force on all hemi lifters, lack of lubrication that causes the lifter to **** in the cavity. You know, many guys that sell everything for hemi engines including RF sponsors, simply don't sell lifters, LOL. They freaking opted out! They can sell you a new lifter, and it will tick like the old ones, because of the design, so they just opt out. They will sell you a cam, or anything else in your engine, but they wont even sell you lifters.

Just for the record Mike,very few of the guys who do an aftermarket cam with the hellcat lifter have very few issues even when done on high milege motors.So theres seems to be a work around by going to better parts,but it's still an expensive fix that shouldn't be required. Remember that video MMX did with the stupid garden sprayer test on TSP's lifters,maybe TSP is ahead of the game with their bleed down lifters,lol

 

[pacofortacos]

What filter do you suggest?

"Please for your own preventive maintenance get rid of that factory oil and put some redline 5w-30w full synthetic and a royal purple or K/N oil filter W synthetic media and silicone anti drain back valve, and 15oz of LubeGard Biotech engine protectant W/Moly you'll sleep better."

Or top of the line Fram is good, WIX, or even the Mopar SRT filter.

I can't run the 5w-30 in my 16 but many have good luck with it. But I do run some redline oil mix.

The pictures of camshafts with pitted lobes is not an oil issue, it is a poor metal issue.

I personally will not exceed 5k miles on my oil changes which can be as short as a couple of months since I tend to put 3-4k on in a week when I use the truck.

Long oil changes are not designed for long life, they are meant for JD Power cost of ownership AND to just get past the warranty period.

Too much oil can be a problem with rollers also.

 

[16RamHemi]

"Please for your own preventive maintenance get rid of that factory oil and put some redline 5w-30w full synthetic and a royal purple or K/N oil filter W synthetic media and silicone anti drain back valve, and 15oz of LubeGard Biotech engine protectant W/Moly you'll sleep better."

Or top of the line Fram is good, WIX, or even the Mopar SRT filter.

I can't run the 5w-30 in my 16 but many have good luck with it. But I do run some redline oil mix.

The pictures of camshafts with pitted lobes is not an oil issue, it is a poor metal issue.

I personally will not exceed 5k miles on my oil changes which can be as short as a couple of months since I tend to put 3-4k on in a week when I use the truck.

Long oil changes are not designed for long life, they are meant for JD Power cost of ownership AND to just get past the warranty period.

Too much oil can be a problem with rollers also.

My last 2 uoa's have shown that 7300 and then 8100 miles on redline still had life left. Both were suggested to be pushed up to 8500 and 10k miles. I agree with the overall notion of shorter oci are better, but it's being proven that redline 5w30 is holding up with longer oci. Who is to say some of these other oils being changed at 5k are protecting later in their run? Safe to say most people do not do uoa's.

 

[16RamHemi]

What filter do you suggest?

I recommend royal purple 20820 filter. It's their bigger filter, but I'm seeing great results with them and redline 5w30 over the last 15k miles. Uoa's of the last 2 changes are showing very low wear numbers on my truck. 2014 with now 86k miles. It's a great filter.

 

[pacofortacos]

My last 2 uoa's have shown that 7300 and then 8100 miles on redline still had life left. Both were suggested to be pushed up to 8500 and 10k miles. I agree with the overall notion of shorter oci are better, but it's being proven that redline 5w30 is holding up with longer oci. Who is to say some of these other oils being changed at 5k are protecting later in their run? Safe to say most people do not do uoa's.

I would say probably very few people do uoa's - I have never done one.

The truck oci indicator generally runs about 10k miles and if done at the dealer is using a blend oil and paper filter.
What happens when the filter starts to get restricted, the bypass stays open more often which sends unfiltered oil through the engine. This is one area the SRT filter is known to shine as it has a higher bypass pressure. Do any of the other filter manufacturers state the bypass pressure?

 

[16RamHemi]

I would say probably very few people do uoa's - I have never done one.

The truck oci indicator generally runs about 10k miles and if done at the dealer is using a blend oil and paper filter.
What happens when the filter starts to get restricted, the bypass stays open more often which sends unfiltered oil through the engine. This is one area the SRT filter is known to shine as it has a higher bypass pressure. Do any of the other filter manufacturers state the bypass pressure?

I don't know if they do or not. I almost went with the srt filter this last change but decided to stay with the big rp filter.

 

[Burla]

I'm wondering with those loose thick pleates of RP filters if the bypass even opens up much, my bet would be even oil is cold and thick it is making it through the filter media, of course depends on how cold it actually gets.

Either filter srt or RP would be very top choice.

 

[Simpleman]

I would do what burla & others recommend using redline 5w30 & a good filter. I had the same problem and listened to burla and now no more ticking

 

[seabrook]

Thank you for offering Mark.

That being said, all my reading concluded that there is no real long-term fix. New parts will suffer the same fate due to a design failure in the engineering process. And I can confirm the issue just by seeing those affected parts and the block from watching videos. I hold a degree in Engineering, and used to work for Benz in Research & Development, in Germany. I was at home with the C, SLK and SL class.

The lifters in the current 5.7 HEMI don't see enough oil, so they get slightly stuck at times, matching marks can be seen on those lifters, then the needle bearings in the roller gets a beating from the cam lobe, and once the roller collapses and gets stuck, the lobe on the cam gets destroyed. All with metal shavings to be distributed throughout the entire engine, causing more long-term harm to other bearings and contact surfaces.

I bought this truck new and planned to keep it around until the wheels fall off. This plan will not work out with such a questionable engine design. Hence I will not keep a new vehicle around that needs major repair from the get go, because my trust is lost at that point, especially considering that repairs don't fix this issue.

You could do me (or us) a favor though: please provide some feedback to upper management (not executive office, that's just a firewall to keep the noise away from the decision makers, aka board members). There REALLY is a new and developing demand for 2 markets / buyer groups:


1.) We need a small and simple truck again. All half tons are monster trucks compared to small pickups of the past. Not everybody wants to tow a 12k trailer. What so many have been asking for, for years, is a truck with these features:

- regular cab
- long bed
- much smaller than the current Ford Ranger
- 4 banger turbo diesel
- manual
- 4WD optional
- lockable diffs optional
- no luxury nonsense
- max $22k


2.) We need quality and reliability over features and design elements.

No thanks lol I grew up in the 80s and those small crappy trucks sucked! So tell management no thanks I like the newer trucks lol. If anything tell management I’ll be happy to pay more for more power and luxury hehe I want it to haul *** and be reliable till 100k then I get a new one

 

[crockett]

No thanks lol I grew up in the 80s and those small crappy trucks sucked! So tell management no thanks I like the newer trucks lol. If anything tell management I’ll be happy to pay more for more power and luxury hehe I want it to haul *** and be reliable till 100k then I get a new one

The demand for those small pickup trucks is so high, that Ford is bringing one out later this year, while Fiat is sleeping yet again. Just because they bring a new small truck doesn't mean that your "powerful and luxury" trucks fall off the cliff or can't be made more excessive.


https://www.motortrend.com/news/2022-2023-ford-compact-pickup-truck-name-maverick/


So what high powered and luxury truck do you own? Ah, I see.. a 1500 night edition. So luxurious and powerful! Damn. I'll post my 75k Denali Dmax below.

Go troll somewhere else.

 

[pacofortacos]

I actually prefer the Dakota quad cab size over my Ram crew cab size - but no thank you if only a 6 banger.
My 01 Dakota was a nice overall size truck for my needs and the 5.9 had the low rpm power I needed.
That body, with a 5.9 with the 8 speed trans with 3.55 gears would be my ideal truck. lol