What's better? 6.4L or the Cummins Diesel

[GsRAM]

I totally agree, they are both great trucks and both have their own purpose, pros and cons. It's great we still have the freedom to choose. The world would be a boring place if we all liked and bought the same things.

If your towing south of 10k, infrequently (I tow my TT 7 times per year or so), and you don't run it much (my truck has 14,303 miles on it) I think gas is the way to go.

Anything sitting too much isn't good, but especially diesels. Short trips, lots of idling is bad for a diesel (not good for the hemi or any engine really)

These are just my opinions and what is best for me. YMMV and that's perfectly ok too.

 

[dhay13]

Sorry you took that personal. Wasn't directing that at anyone in particular. Just calling out a trend that people are quick to point out that diesels are a waste of money unless you "need" it. As if we truly "need" most of the stuff we have on our trucks these days. If we truly purchased a truck based on need, most would have two wheel drive regular cab long bed tradesman's with vinyl flooring and crank windows.

I just think its funny that nobody calls anyone out for being wasteful, unless they daily drive a diesel, or install a lift kit. I chose to allocate my money towards appearance and performance. Some choose to have comfort and convenience. Some want both. Some would call owning a boat or an RV a waste of money. At the end of the day, if you can afford it and you enjoy it, I say do it. Life is too short to sit around worrying about money, and it's way to short to worry about how others spend their money.

In my opinion there is no correct answer to the OP's question without knowing, what do they plan to do with the truck? and what options are available for them at the time of purchase. I think both are incredible engines and had the right deal been available when I was shopping I would be driving a 6.4.

Nothing personal. Actually it's a good discussion. Hey I spent a bundle on a boat so I'm guilty there but my point was more like I 'could' have bought a bigger boat but didn't need that big of a boat. I looked at a few bigger than the one we bought but this one does everything we need and expect from a boat. There were a couple on here that commented that the 6.4 is worthless. I rebutted by pointing out that it is no more worthless than a diesel that isn't needed. Wasn't specifically pointing to you just that a couple of my points were in response to your post. But no hurt feelings here

 

[corneileous]

...a damned piece of metal.

One thing about it, at least our trucks are made out of a real metal and not recycled beer cans. Lol.


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[corneileous]

There were a couple on here that commented that the 6.4 is worthless.

I’m not sure about the new fifth-Gen three-quarter tons that have that eight speed in them, but one thing I will say, the one and only 2018 three-quarter ton crew cab short bed with the hemi that I test drove, for having a big ole 6.4L 392ci engine under the hood, it really didn’t feel like it was any more powerful than the 5.7L hemi then was in my 1500 that I bought.

But then again, The factory horsepower difference between those two engines really isn’t a whole lot; I think you’re really only talking less than 20 more horsepower and maybe 25 more foot pounds of torque. I mean, I realize they design this stuff a certain way for a purpose for longevity but damn, you would think that since that little 3.5 Egoboost is putting out close to 500 foot pounds of torque and 450 hp that they could’ve turned up that 392 hemi just a little bit more than what they did.


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[HEMIMANN]

One thing about it, at least our trucks are made out of a real metal and not recycled beer cans. Lol.


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Not as much plastic as GM, neither!

 

[HEMIMANN]

I’m not sure about the new fifth-Gen three-quarter tons that have that eight speed in them, but one thing I will say, the one and only 2018 three-quarter ton crew cab short bed with the hemi that I test drove, for having a big ole 6.4L 392ci engine under the hood, it really didn’t feel like it was any more powerful than the 5.7L hemi then was in my 1500 that I bought.

But then again, The factory horsepower difference between those two engines really isn’t a whole lot; I think you’re really only talking less than 20 more horsepower and maybe 25 more foot pounds of torque. I mean, I realize they design this stuff a certain way for a purpose for longevity but damn, you would think that since that little 3.5 Egoboost is putting out close to 500 foot pounds of torque and 450 hp that they could’ve turned up that 392 hemi just a little bit more than what they did.


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Yeah, and that little ecoboost burns up @ 70,000 miles. A Top Fuel Dragster puts out over 8,000 horsepower - for up to 36 seconds (5-6 runs) before it's junk.

The analogy isn't valid. Both the 5.7 & 6.4 are the same block size - they're both small blocks. Big blocks went away as sucking too much fuel. Diesels now have an exhaust chemical factory attached to them.

Is it any wonder there is so much work on EV's?

 

[ramffml]

I’m not sure about the new fifth-Gen three-quarter tons that have that eight speed in them, but one thing I will say, the one and only 2018 three-quarter ton crew cab short bed with the hemi that I test drove, for having a big ole 6.4L 392ci engine under the hood, it really didn’t feel like it was any more powerful than the 5.7L hemi then was in my 1500 that I bought.

But then again, The factory horsepower difference between those two engines really isn’t a whole lot; I think you’re really only talking less than 20 more horsepower and maybe 25 more foot pounds of torque. I mean, I realize they design this stuff a certain way for a purpose for longevity but damn, you would think that since that little 3.5 Egoboost is putting out close to 500 foot pounds of torque and 450 hp that they could’ve turned up that 392 hemi just a little bit more than what they did.


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The 3.5 ecoboost also puts out roughly as much torque as the Ford 7.3. Guess which one they put in their "real" trucks? Don't fixate on one aspect of an engine, the 6.4 will far outlive the ecoboost if you're going to be working both, and probably get better MPG in the process.

 

[Sandevino]

Resale is not even close to being a push. You saying that just hurts your credibility.

Let’s assume like for like vehicles with Hemi and Cummins power train.

New Ram 2500 Cummins - $60k
New Ram 2500 Hemi - $45k
$15k difference favoring Cummins.

Used Ram 2500 Cummins - $35-40k
Used Ram 2500 Hemi - $25-30k
$10k difference favoring Cummins

You spent more up front so you expect to get more in resale. However the resale gap is $10k instead of $15k new.

Here’s two real world examples for sale now. The Cummins on the left has half the miles as the Hemi on the right and is selling for a little over $11k more. If the mileage were the same I’d expect to see the Cummins $8-9k higher than the Hemi.

Looks like you’re right, but not how you thought. It’s not a push at all. The Cummins depreciates faster and sells for less of a premium used compared to new.

Go troll someone else who cares what you think of them.

 

[corneileous]

Yeah, and that little ecoboost burns up @ 70,000 miles. A Top Fuel Dragster puts out over 8,000 horsepower - for up to 36 seconds (5-6 runs) before it's junk.

The analogy isn't valid. Both the 5.7 & 6.4 are the same block size - they're both small blocks. Big blocks went away as sucking too much fuel. Diesels now have an exhaust chemical factory attached to them.

Is it any wonder there is so much work on EV's?

The 3.5 ecoboost also puts out roughly as much torque as the Ford 7.3. Guess which one they put in their "real" trucks? Don't fixate on one aspect of an engine, the 6.4 will far outlive the ecoboost if you're going to be working both, and probably get better MPG in the process.

You’re right, and I’m glad both y’all said that because it really supports what I’ve been saying all along the times I’ve gotten into it with some jackassed Phord fan who acts like the EgoCrap is so much better because of how much more power it makes even over the 392 and I’ve always said that it probably wasn’t healthy to squeeze that much power out of a factory forced air V6 but you can’t tell them nothin. Lol. I even used the argument that even 395 out of my 5.7 is plenty for me but they try to make it sound like the Hemi is insignificant to the EgoPuke just because the Hemi could be turned up a little more and the Ego really doesn’t have to be turned up as much as it is just to prove a useless point.

But I still think they could’ve turned the juice up just a skosh higher on the 6.4.


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[dhay13]

I’m not sure about the new fifth-Gen three-quarter tons that have that eight speed in them, but one thing I will say, the one and only 2018 three-quarter ton crew cab short bed with the hemi that I test drove, for having a big ole 6.4L 392ci engine under the hood, it really didn’t feel like it was any more powerful than the 5.7L hemi then was in my 1500 that I bought.

But then again, The factory horsepower difference between those two engines really isn’t a whole lot; I think you’re really only talking less than 20 more horsepower and maybe 25 more foot pounds of torque. I mean, I realize they design this stuff a certain way for a purpose for longevity but damn, you would think that since that little 3.5 Egoboost is putting out close to 500 foot pounds of torque and 450 hp that they could’ve turned up that 392 hemi just a little bit more than what they did.


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I haven't driven the 8 speed but have towed the same boat and travel trailer behind both my 2013 1500 5.7 3.55s and my 2018 2500 6.4 4.10's. You are right the numbers are fairly close in terms of the actual number but I can definitely feel the difference under load. The 5.7 ran hard to gt up the same hills that the 6.4 went up much easier. Sure gears make some difference but it feels much better. To add to what you said, the 2500 weighs 1500-2000lbs more so that probably eats up the bigger horsepower and torque. Empty I agree there doesn't feel like a huge difference but towing I can feel the difference

 

[retired]

buddy has a newer F150 with 3.5 EB and lift and 34" tires. We just got back from Moab and his truck definitely leaves my 2020 PW with 35's for dead on the highway. he also kicked my butt in mpg by at least 6 mpg. We drove 75-80mph and it always amazed me how good of mpg he was getting. I have another buddy with an older 3.5 EB and has probably 150,000 miles and no issues and he pulls a older large camper that is probably way over his limit and says it does fine. I love my Power Wagon tho and I did not buy it to race 1/2 ton trucks or even try and out pull them.

 

[jejb]

Let’s assume like for like vehicles with Hemi and Cummins power train.

New Ram 2500 Cummins - $60k
New Ram 2500 Hemi - $45k
$15k difference favoring Cummins.

Used Ram 2500 Cummins - $35-40k
Used Ram 2500 Hemi - $25-30k
$10k difference favoring Cummins

You spent more up front so you expect to get more in resale. However the resale gap is $10k instead of $15k new.

Here’s two real world examples for sale now. The Cummins on the left has half the miles as the Hemi on the right and is selling for a little over $11k more. If the mileage were the same I’d expect to see the Cummins $8-9k higher than the Hemi.

Looks like you’re right, but not how you thought.

That's exactly how I thought. The resale is always higher on the diesel, everything else being equal. Of course they both depreciate, but there is no question the diesel holds a lot of value over the gasser.

 

[sandawilliams]

I’m not sure about the new fifth-Gen three-quarter tons that have that eight speed in them, but one thing I will say, the one and only 2018 three-quarter ton crew cab short bed with the hemi that I test drove, for having a big ole 6.4L 392ci engine under the hood, it really didn’t feel like it was any more powerful than the 5.7L hemi then was in my 1500 that I bought.

But then again, The factory horsepower difference between those two engines really isn’t a whole lot; I think you’re really only talking less than 20 more horsepower and maybe 25 more foot pounds of torque. I mean, I realize they design this stuff a certain way for a purpose for longevity but damn, you would think that since that little 3.5 Egoboost is putting out close to 500 foot pounds of torque and 450 hp that they could’ve turned up that 392 hemi just a little bit more than what they did.


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Keep in mind the 6.4 is moving a truck 2000 pounds heavier than the 5.7

 

[392DevilDog]

That's exactly how I thought. The resale is always higher on the diesel, everything else being equal. Of course they both depreciate, but there is no question the diesel holds a lot of value over the gasser.

What. Ha ha ha. You got us.

 

[HEMIMANN]

You’re right, and I’m glad both y’all said that because it really supports what I’ve been saying all along the times I’ve gotten into it with some jackassed Phord fan who acts like the EgoCrap is so much better because of how much more power it makes even over the 392 and I’ve always said that it probably wasn’t healthy to squeeze that much power out of a factory forced air V6 but you can’t tell them nothin. Lol. I even used the argument that even 395 out of my 5.7 is plenty for me but they try to make it sound like the Hemi is insignificant to the EgoPuke just because the Hemi could be turned up a little more and the Ego really doesn’t have to be turned up as much as it is just to prove a useless point.

But I still think they could’ve turned the juice up just a skosh higher on the 6.4.


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Thanks, but this is just physics - not some personal revelation.

I worked for Cummins for 22 years, and another 12 in the drivetrain industry. I watched the architectural battle between engine makers for years in meeting US EPA CAFE standards. Some made little engines scream, others made big engines cutout. Both have advantages and disadvantages. Being a fan-boy of one or the other just because it's what you bought is ridiculous.

I mean, who gives a ****? You didn't design it or build it! Why would anybody get worked up about getting judged by a friggin truck? It's stupid.

Anyway, that aside, the big motor cylinder cutouts have their own problems. Making a rotating assembly stop working on a temporary basis reliably ain't easy either. GM's pump oil like an oil well, Ram fails lifters and wipes cams. So which is better? An engine with a 70k mile lifespan, or an engine that destroys itself around then or earlier?

Neither, right? Those that went to GDI as the holy grail were mistaken as well. They tried to reduce expense on an already expensive architecture by using a single, direct injector. Well, when under high load, the rich burn mode doesn't have enough time to burn completely and loads the oil with soot! So these engines don't last and need frequent oil changes, and have LSPI detonation issues.

The only solution is to use 2 injectors - put the rich burn injector back in the intake ports. Now there's 2 injectors per cylinder, and more electronics.

There ain't no free lunch for low fuel consumption. Period.

 

[corneileous]

buddy has a newer F150 with 3.5 EB and lift and 34" tires. We just got back from Moab and his truck definitely leaves my 2020 PW with 35's for dead on the highway. he also kicked my butt in mpg by at least 6 mpg. We drove 75-80mph and it always amazed me how good of mpg he was getting. I have another buddy with an older 3.5 EB and has probably 150,000 miles and no issues and he pulls a older large camper that is probably way over his limit and says it does fine. I love my Power Wagon tho and I did not buy it to race 1/2 ton trucks or even try and out pull them.

That’s odd about his mileage because all the people I’ve heard about didn’t really get all that great of mileage when them little hair dryers are spooled up.

But hey, what else would you expect when he walks off and leaves you?...lol. Your truck is a whole lot heavier than his bein that it’s a 3/4-ton and his has a bunch of aluminum and not only that, he’s got you by 40 ponies and almost 75 foot pounds of torque. Of course his truck will be faster, that’s a no-brainer.


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[HEMIMANN]

That’s odd about his mileage because all the people I’ve heard about didn’t really get all that great of mileage when them little hair dryers are spooled up.

But hey, what else would you expect when he walks off and leaves you?...lol. Your truck is a whole lot heavier than his bein that it’s a 3/4-ton and his has a bunch of aluminum and not only that, he’s got you by 40 ponies and almost 75 foot pounds of torque. Of course his truck will be faster, that’s a no-brainer.


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Exactly - that was the Ford marketing scam - whizmotors don't get great mileage when you load 'em (pulling trailers), only when deadheading. But a lot of guys deadhead a lot, so they're ok with it.

 

[corneileous]

Keep in mind the 6.4 is moving a truck 2000 pounds heavier than the 5.7

Exactly. I figured around that but still wasn’t impressed. But then again, a lot people weren’t crazy about that 6-speed, either. I wonder how different the experience would be now that they have the 8-speed...


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[Sandevino]

That's exactly how I thought. The resale is always higher on the diesel, everything else being equal. Of course they both depreciate, but there is no question the diesel holds a lot of value over the gasser.

 

[392DevilDog]

We have agreed the Cummins costs about 9k more new.

Guess I am not smoking crack when I say the Hemi is the better value.





I can show more. But I think this will be enough. Oh wait. Now we will say the Cummins is cheaper. It goes on and on my friend. Good times