What's better? 6.4L or the Cummins Diesel

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jejb

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So you saved 10.83 on the trip. The avg transaction price is a minimum of 8k difference between a diesel and a Gas truck.

So we can make that trip 800ish times until we are even.
Kind of a specious argument here. You are adding in the price of the diesel purchase on the front end but giving no credit for it on the back end. Everything else being equal, a Cummins equipped RAM will always be worth more than a gasser. Usually quite a bit more.

For me personally, it's not about the price, maint cost, etc. It's about having the pulling power *I* want. I don't want a motor screaming at max RPM on my big climbs. I want to be able to pull at whatever speed I want. Here are a couple of videos of the infamous Ike Guantlet tests. The newest for the Cummins I could find was a 2015 (so less powerful than the newer Cummins), vs a 2020 6.4. The 6.4 was 3 minutes slower and screaming its guts out all the way up. I am not willing to tow with my foot on the floor. I think it's much harder on the engine and tranny. Downhill run for the 6.4 was not good either.


 

Sandevino

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I like the TFL guys but they only tell half the story....

This is the age old issue of trying to prove superiority of one thing over another while neglecting use-case and intended purpose. Comparing diesel to gas across the board is like comparing a roofing nailer to a pin nailer. Both are nailers but have entirely different use-cases.

I will agree hands down that the Cummins is far superior engine in a vacuum. Compare it to its peers (Duramax, Powerstroke, International, Cummins Commercial, etc) and the comparison is on a level playing field. The light duty Cummins in the Ram quickly gets left in the dust by the big boys. With that said, the Cummins is not the superior engine across the board when you factor in use-case. Off-road, payload, maintenance, fuel availability and consistency and EPA regulations favor gas. Towing and fuel mileage towing favor diesel. Resale and longevity are a push.

From personal experience, Diesel excels at towing but its Achilles heel is the payload of the vehicle it’s installed in such as the Ram 2500 with its paltry 2000# payload WITHOUT DRIVER, PASSENGERS, CARGO OR TRAILER TONGUE / PIN WEIGHT ADDED. Most 5th wheel trailers have a pin weight in the 1500-3000# range which blows your payload out of the water. 3500-5500’s have better payload but if you get north of 26000# you’d better have a CDL or your operating illegally.

Why do the diesel guys keep trying to convince everyone theirs is bigger, err better, than everyone else’s? Love the one you’re with...
 
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392DevilDog

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Kind of a specious argument here. You are adding in the price of the diesel purchase on the front end but giving no credit for it on the back end. Everything else being equal, a Cummins equipped RAM will always be worth more than a gasser. Usually quite a bit more.
I buy my trucks used and do not buy them to sell them.

When you buy the Cummins it is 8 to 11k more.

When you sell the Cummins it is 8 to 11k more

Someone buys a Cummins to drive to the beach and I buy a gas truck to drive to the beach. We each have 50k to do this

They payed 8 to 11k more than me. They saved 10 bucks. I still have 8 to 11k to get home.

Yes. A 3rd Gen Cummins is selling for much Higher than a 3rd Gen Hemi.

But in my experiment we are talking 6.4l HEMI to Cummins in 2500. They retain there value the same at an 8 to 11k difference.

Now if we sell the truck at the beach he got his 8 to 11k back. Mine might take a bit longer to sell as the Cummins is still the more popular choice.

But that is changing. And this thread proves it.


But my I only know about tootsie pops
 

392DevilDog

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And just wait til the next Gas truck comes out. It is going to close the gap even more.

I am talking 2500 trucks.

In a 3500 DRW the Cummins will be the go to. It has to be in order to hit the GCWR.

And it is only a matter of time til us Cummins and Hemi guys are on the same team arguing against the electric autonomous trucks. Guys arguing who do not even control there trucks steering wheel with the guys who still love to hear and engine and shift a manual gearbox
 

Sandevino

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In a 3500 DRW the Cummins will be the go to. It has to be in order to hit the GCWR.

The 3500 DRW is rated at 14000# GVWR which leaves 12000# available for trailer and payload. The magic number is 26001# which moves you out of class C licensure and into class A license requirements.
 

392DevilDog

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The 3500 DRW is rated at 14000# GVWR which leaves 12000# available for trailer and payload. The magic number is 26001# which moves you out of class C licensure and into class A license requirements.
I am not discussing license requirements.

The GCWR of a 2019 3500 Cummins HO DRW is 43k. The Hemi DRW has the same GCWR as rhe 2500. The HEMI tops out on GCWR.

Which is why I say the Cummins is the Better engine. But in a 2500 it isnt the better truck.

And since you brought up the license requirement...it shows even less of a use case for joe homeowner for a Cummins.
 

ramffml

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Kind of a specious argument here. You are adding in the price of the diesel purchase on the front end but giving no credit for it on the back end. Everything else being equal, a Cummins equipped RAM will always be worth more than a gasser. Usually quite a bit more.

For me personally, it's not about the price, maint cost, etc. It's about having the pulling power *I* want. I don't want a motor screaming at max RPM on my big climbs. I want to be able to pull at whatever speed I want. Here are a couple of videos of the infamous Ike Guantlet tests. The newest for the Cummins I could find was a 2015 (so less powerful than the newer Cummins), vs a 2020 6.4. The 6.4 was 3 minutes slower and screaming its guts out all the way up. I am not willing to tow with my foot on the floor. I think it's much harder on the engine and tranny. Downhill run for the 6.4 was not good either.




I don't drive like Andre. It's completely nuts to put your foot to the floor and scream your way up for 10 minutes straight, unless you're simply trying to find min time it takes to get up the hill. Normal people would reduce their speed a little bit, or tow less than max tow rating (I'd never push my truck that hard or to the limits as they do).

Keep in mind that a diesel is working pretty hard to. Yeah it's RPMs are a lot lower, but its redline is half that of the hemi too. When you're pushing 3000+ rpms in a diesel, that thing is working very hard near its redline, it just sounds better to your ears because you know a gas "sounds worse". But redline is redline, and diesels push near their redline quite a bit too going up that hill.
 

dhay13

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"If you dont tow and you buy a diesel your wasting money"
Same person... Buys new truck every two years to get a bigger dashboard screen
?
Bought my first Ram new in 2007 then traded it in 2013 on a new 1500 then traded that in 2018 for this one. Haven't noticed many on here swapping trucks every 2 years and didn't notice it mentioned by anyone. But I agree, a new truck every 2 years is wasting money, just like buying a diesel to daily drive and not use it like it was meant to be used is also wasteful.
 

corneileous

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"If you dont tow and you buy a diesel your wasting money"
Same person... Buys new truck every two years to get a bigger dashboard screen

I pretty much am that guy that you described within your quoted sentence but I am definitely not the same guy who buys a new truck every two years… I can actually see buying a new truck every three years, once the factory warranty runs out but buying a new truck every two years is just plain ******* stupid, in my book.


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SOKY_RAM

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Bought my first Ram new in 2007 then traded it in 2013 on a new 1500 then traded that in 2018 for this one. Haven't noticed many on here swapping trucks every 2 years and didn't notice it mentioned by anyone. But I agree, a new truck every 2 years is wasting money, just like buying a diesel to daily drive and not use it like it was meant to be used is also wasteful.

Sorry you took that personal. Wasn't directing that at anyone in particular. Just calling out a trend that people are quick to point out that diesels are a waste of money unless you "need" it. As if we truly "need" most of the stuff we have on our trucks these days. If we truly purchased a truck based on need, most would have two wheel drive regular cab long bed tradesman's with vinyl flooring and crank windows.

I just think its funny that nobody calls anyone out for being wasteful, unless they daily drive a diesel, or install a lift kit. I chose to allocate my money towards appearance and performance. Some choose to have comfort and convenience. Some want both. Some would call owning a boat or an RV a waste of money. At the end of the day, if you can afford it and you enjoy it, I say do it. Life is too short to sit around worrying about money, and it's way to short to worry about how others spend their money.

In my opinion there is no correct answer to the OP's question without knowing, what do they plan to do with the truck? and what options are available for them at the time of purchase. I think both are incredible engines and had the right deal been available when I was shopping I would be driving a 6.4.
 

corneileous

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Bought my first Ram new in 2007 then traded it in 2013 on a new 1500 then traded that in 2018 for this one. Haven't noticed many on here swapping trucks every 2 years and didn't notice it mentioned by anyone. But I agree, a new truck every 2 years is wasting money, just like buying a diesel to daily drive and not use it like it was meant to be used is also wasteful.

Egh, since there’s people out there that can easily spend 3 or $4million on a Bugatti Veyron supercar every three or four years and also be able to drop another $40,000 like pocket change to send their wheels and tires back to France to have new tires put on and shipped back to you when it comes time to put new tires on it, some people can afford to buy a big ole diesel truck as a daily driver so it really doesn’t matter as long as your bank account is big enough. It’s really only wasting money to the ones that really don’t need it, and could be better off using the money elsewhere but then again, whether it’s truly considered wasteful or not, what everybody does with their finances is their business.

But ****, I guess that in that sense, I wasted money on buying my half-ton because come to think of it, I really don’t even need a truck. I could’ve done everything that I’ve ever needed to do with even for a little over what I spent on my Ram, a 392 R/T Durango and could be having some serious fun but since I like trucks, I bought a truck.


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corneileous

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Sorry you took that personal. Wasn't directing that at anyone in particular. Just calling out a trend that people are quick to point out that diesels are a waste of money unless you "need" it. As if we truly "need" most of the stuff we have on our trucks these days. If we truly purchased a truck based on need, most would have two wheel drive regular cab long bed tradesman's with vinyl flooring and crank windows.

I just think its funny that nobody calls anyone out for being wasteful, unless they daily drive a diesel, or install a lift kit. I chose to allocate my money towards appearance and performance. Some choose to have comfort and convenience. Some want both. Some would call owning a boat or an RV a waste of money. At the end of the day, if you can afford it and you enjoy it, I say do it. Life is too short to sit around worrying about money, and it's way to short to worry about how others spend their money.

In my opinion there is no correct answer to the OP's question without knowing, what do they plan to do with the truck? and what options are available for them at the time of purchase. I think both are incredible engines and had the right deal been available when I was shopping I would be driving a 6.4.

I don’t think anybody’s feathers ever got necessarily ruffled but if they did, they really need to re-learn how to take things and how to comprehend what people said because, just because somebody might act like somebody made a wasteful purchase, that only applies to the person who bought it if and if they don’t think they wasted money, then who gives a **** what anybody else says.

Take me for example; as I said in my previous post, I really don’t need a truck. I don’t go off road, I don’t haul anything in my bed except for a little bitty toolbox that has a few tools and my trailer hitch, and another little box that holds other essential items that I really don’t want in the cab like ratchet straps, a little socket set and a set jumper cables just because I don’t want them in the cab of the truck. Hell, I even have a carpeted bed liner and a solid, painted to match fiberglass tonneau cover that covers it so essentially all my truck bed is, is just one large big ass trunk… LOL.

But as far as that goes, I rarely haul anything in my truck. And the only trailer I pull is a little utility trailer that I haul my lawnmower on because it won’t fit in the back of the truck so yeah, my truck could be considered as wasteful but like I said, I like trucks, I wanted a truck and I bought a truck whether I needed it or not.

But yeah, you are correct, there is no correct answer for the OP because only he can answer that. It all boils down to what he wants, what he needs, and what he can afford. All we can do is give him pros and cons of both options but he’ll have to take it from there.

Matter of fact, before I bought my new truck I came real close to buying a three-quarter ton short bed crew cab with the Cummins in it just because I’ve always wanted a diesel but ever since the EPA screwed up diesel engines, that thought of buying a truck with any diesel got quickly tossed out the window. And then after that at one point, I even considered a three-quarter ton crew cab short bed that had the 392 in it and even though Ram has that option of the rear air ride, I came pretty damn close to buying one of those just because of that rear air ride not beating me to death like a normal three-quarter ton and not to mention the very unexciting 6 speed, I don’t need a truck and I certainly don’t need no big old three-quarter ton either so that’s why I settled on my half ton. Made better sense to me. Much easier to maneuver, much smoother ride and much easier for people to get in and out of.


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GsRAM

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As said numerous times in this thread, it depends.

If I was towing frequently and north of 10k, Cummins all the way.

But right now and until I retire, I won't be so the 6.4 does everything I need it to and then some. Its the best pulling gas powered truck I've ever owned! (Even with the supposed crappy 6 speed...its not bad for me)

If you need a sledgehammer, buy a sledgehammer, but don't buy a sledgehammer to drive finish nails, unless you just want one, then do it!

You may have some smashed fingers as a result, but it's a free country! :)
 

jejb

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With that said, the Cummins is not the superior engine across the board when you factor in use-case.
I don't think anyone said it was. This thread is about towing, not other use cases.
Resale and longevity are a push.
Resale is not even close to being a push. You saying that just hurts your credibility.
 

jejb

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I buy my trucks used and do not buy them to sell them.

When you buy the Cummins it is 8 to 11k more.

When you sell the Cummins it is 8 to 11k more

Someone buys a Cummins to drive to the beach and I buy a gas truck to drive to the beach. We each have 50k to do this

They payed 8 to 11k more than me. They saved 10 bucks. I still have 8 to 11k to get home.

Yes. A 3rd Gen Cummins is selling for much Higher than a 3rd Gen Hemi.

But in my experiment we are talking 6.4l HEMI to Cummins in 2500. They retain there value the same at an 8 to 11k difference.

Now if we sell the truck at the beach he got his 8 to 11k back. Mine might take a bit longer to sell as the Cummins is still the more popular choice.

But that is changing. And this thread proves it.
I guess this is a round about way to agree with me?
 

jejb

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And just wait til the next Gas truck comes out. It is going to close the gap even more.
I hope so. I'd love to see them come out with a gas motor that put out 800-1000lb ft of torque in a pickup in stock trim. I don't like the whole DEF thing and slightly higher DIY maint costs. I'd go back to a gasser like that pretty quickly, most likely. But the 6.4 is only about half way there, so it's going to take a big jump.
 

sandawilliams

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I hope so. I'd love to see them come out with a gas motor that put out 800-1000lb ft of torque in a pickup in stock trim. I don't like the whole DEF thing and slightly higher DIY maint costs. I'd go back to a gasser like that pretty quickly, most likely. But the 6.4 is only about half way there, so it's going to take a big jump.

Twin turbo for the 6.4 would be great.
 

HEMIMANN

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I don't think any of us are saying "don't buy a diesel". We're just trying to help out OP by pointing out pros and cons is all. No point getting your personality associated with a damned piece of metal.

I don't care if anybody wants a diesel . I don't care what your reason is. The OP didn't ask any of that. Let's keep the thread on track for the OP and not get so defensive about why WE "like" one or the other, hey?
 

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