Lookin for Advice on getting Max Clearance, Wheel Travel, with Minimum Lift

[Kevin petro]

So I took my new (to me) 2017 Ram out into the desert for the first time last Friday and was quite let down by the experience. The truck is stock with some plates on the bottom to cover the transmission and front diff, and the bottom of the bumper cut off.

I have previously driven a Toyota FJ cruiser with a 2" lift for 3 years in the desert, and was quite used to desert driving, so to experience the bottoming out, or the front crossmember hitting the sand at every little bump I hit was quite frustrating.

So ideally what I would like to build is a trophy truck. However, I'm not going to spend much. So what I am looking for is maximum ground clearance, wheel travel, and minimum lift. Given that with no lift I am smashing into the ground on every bump, I don't think my initial plan of a 2" lift via Coil over will be adequate. I'm hoping not to go for the long travel suspension kit as it would double the price of the suspension I'm looking to setup. One thing I've been considering is cutting some of the crossmember out between the lower control arms to take it up about 2 inches similar to the 4" drop bracket lifts do.

Does anyone know how much wheel travel the stock suspension components (minus the strut and spring) are capable of? I'm interested in seeing if I can install a coilover up front that woould maximize wheel travel and give at least a 2" lift over stock. Also in back I would like to get the maximum wheel travel the supsension can allow.

 

[RedSRT4Me]

In order to gain travel you'll either need to lift or lengthen the front wheel base from center.

I'm guessing you just need a 2.5" coilover with up to 3" of lift and an UCA upgrade. That would put you back into a similar desert driving experience like your FJ.

 

[ram1500rsm]

I posted what youi'll need in the thread you created in the general section
King or Fox 2.5 CO's and 2.5 rear shocks, set your front CO's at 2.5" with Icon UCA's and rear 1.5" icon rear springs will be all you'll need At least for a basic mid travel setup that can give you a ton of un in the dunes.

I also posted couple of links to Long travel setups for our RAM's if you're interested in going that way for the absolute max perfomance setup. That will require glass fenders, and a bunch of other parts both Dirt King and Gorracing offer, with Coilovers and external triple bypasses etc.

https://www.ramforum.com/posts/2441364/

Have fun.

 

[Nick@GotExhaust]

2.5's all around, better coils, and a set of UCA's. For some added performance I would also do at least a set of rear control arms. Those will help with wheel hop and help keep the rear more planted.

Let me know if we can help. We offer ICON, King, Fox, etc....We can help set you up with a package that will fit your needs and budget. Message me for a quote on anything.

 

[kurek]

Does anyone know how much wheel travel the stock suspension components (minus the strut and spring) are capable of? I'm interested in seeing if I can install a coilover up front that woould maximize wheel travel and give at least a 2" lift over stock. Also in back I would like to get the maximum wheel travel the supsension can allow.

The front suspension really maxes out right around 9.5" of travel per wheel with the stock lower control arms and CV axles.

Even if you sort out everything to do with the ball joints and steering you still encounter the maximum cup angle of the inner CV joints, once you exceed that the next step is cracking the front axle housing.





- There is no way around this other than installing a full, long travel suspension which you said you want to avoid (understandably) for budget reasons.

So you have to work with the stock geometry or ignore our well intentioned advice and learn on your own what we all learned along the way


The front strut is located right about 2/3 of the length of the lower control arm which means your actual wheel travel is just about 150% of the strut travel. I don't think anyone has published exact measurements of the stock front strut but the KYB replacement has a total travel of 5.51" which results in about 8.3" or 210mm of suspension travel. By comparison the very popular Bilstein 5100 front struts have 6.2" of strut travel which results in about 9.3" or 236mm of suspension travel.

In the case of your truck in particular since you shared photos on that other thread it really appears your truck is sitting lower than stock (at least in comparison with USA domestic market, standard 4wd) you will also probably want new springs in front, or struts which include new springs to ensure you get maximum usable suspension height.

Before you call that a death sentence because Raptors have 13" travel... well yeah they do, they have long travel suspension so if a Raptor is in the budget for you that's the easiest way to get 13" of travel just buy one of those, sell your Ram & go have fun! We're here talking about making the absolute best of the Ram you have today, for a realistic price.

You can spend any amount of money on the front end, and you've received good suggestions there. Everyone seems to have their own recipe so I could tell you exactly what I have, ten other people could tell you exactly what they have & nobody would be necessarily right or wrong.

My opinion is at minimum you will want decent struts that maximize travel and upper control arms built to correct lift geometry. There are a variety of struts available like the popular Bilstein 5100's, Eibach, Rough Country, Rancho, Skyjacker, Procomp, and of course higher end offerings like King and Icon and Fox. All of these would result in about the same ride height, ground clearance and total suspension travel - the difference would be in comfort and longevity under rough use. I can only speak first-hand about the Bilsteins, they've been good to me so far but I run a lightweight truck so I'm not putting as much heat into the shocks as someone who carries more weight or drives faster.


For the rear suspension at stock height one of the major limitations is the length of the rear coil spring, you could install longer-travel rear shocks and bumpstop extensions to gain a sizeable amount of rear suspension travel. The stock rear shocks have an extended length of 25.5" and a compressed length of 16.5" for a total shock travel of 9.0" (229mm) - the shock travel in the rear is not exactly 1:1 with total suspension travel and I don't know the exact numerical relationship but it's around 80% so 9" of shock travel means about 11.25" or 286mm of total suspension travel per wheel. An example rear shock absorber that is included in Mopar's 2" lift kit is Bilstein's 33-185569 which has 11.79" of total travel and should result in a little over 14" (355mm) of rear wheel suspension travel.

This is what that looks like:





Note that it is necessary to extend the rear bumpstops and rear sway bar links & brake hose fixture points to utilize extended rear travel like that.

If you install a longer travel rear shock absorber without also installing a longer coil spring then you risk that the rear coil springs fall out because they are only held in place by tension. With the long Bilsteins I mentioned above stock rear springs or Eibach or Bilstein 1" lift springs will just fall out with no resistance. The only springs I know for sure are long enough are the Superlift 140's, which some people hate and others love.

Individual expectations, driving habits and loading habits will dictate how much you need to spend before you're satisfied.

I don't have anything where I live that's like your sand dunes so I can't compare to that but I never have trouble with ground clearance in the desert of Arizona -


I hope that helps as an example of what works and what the limitations are on stock control arms, axles, CV's and all those other expensive hard parts.

 

[Quick_Shifter]

And that’s just Chapter 1 to the novel

 

[kurek]

We need to talk about synthetic oil next!

 

[Quick_Shifter]

We need to talk about synthetic oil next!

View attachment 236251

LOL that’s a good one

 

[crazykid1994]

I have bilstein 5100 and eibach coils front and rear. I love them for what I do but if everything goes as planned I should be purchasing some used 6112 to replace the fronts with. The eibach coils are a huge upgrade over stock coils in my opinion. If I do end up purchasing the 6112 I’ll leave a review of how they feel compared to the 5100. Just doing a small lift/level with bigger tires is a huge upgrade over stock. I’ve gone off-roading and make it through quite a bit setup how I am but you can tell 5100 struggle to keep up on bigger stuff which is why I’m looking to upgrade to the 6112. Kurek is on point with everything he said and ram1500rsm is my go to for suspension questions.

 

[Joes1500]

Most people dont understand this, but lifts dont give you more ground clearance. Bigger diameter tires do. All the lift does is give you room to run a bigger diameter tire.

Check out the OME lift. It looks promising and is customizable for loads.

 

[Quick_Shifter]

Most people dont understand this, but lifts dont give you more ground clearance. Bigger diameter tires do. All the lift does is give you room to run a bigger diameter tire.

Check out the OME lift. It looks promising and is customizable for loads.

You are correct however......
In this case the op has some sort of lowering kit or failed coil springs. New lifted struts will increase his ground clearance as well as bigger tires he will get a usable truck

 

[Joes1500]

Well with a lowering or something failed , that is different , i agree.

 

[kurek]

I'm pretty darn absolutely aware that when you have independent suspension you gain actual ground clearance everywhere except the rear differential when you lift the vehicle.

I can prove this using ramen cups.

 

[Kevin petro]

Most people dont understand this, but lifts dont give you more ground clearance. Bigger diameter tires do. All the lift does is give you room to run a bigger diameter tire.

You're partially right. Extending the shock/strut length lifts the truck and the front cross member, but makes the front CV joints so they are at angles while driving, which will inevitable wear them out. This is fine with me as long as the can last maybe 100 k km before going out.

 

[Kevin petro]

Deleted. My post repeated....

 

[Evguy1]

I don't think you mention what size tire you are going to run? If your running the stock tires now then 37's give you a couple more inches of ground clearance. I run 37's with a 1 1/2" body lift and moved the cab back 1 1/4" for no rubbing. Then do a couple of inches in the suspension and you have 4" more ground clearance other than the rear diff which would just have the 2" from larger tires.

 

[Klaus756]

The differences in those two vehicles abilities stem from Wheelbase. Because the truck is longer there is more room for bottoming. Like Joe's 1500 said tires and wheels that raise the bottom of the vehicle up is the way to go. If you go big enough you may have to use a lift kit for clearance.

 

[Joes1500]

You're partially right. Extending the shock/strut length lifts the truck and the front cross member, but makes the front CV joints so they are at angles while driving, which will inevitable wear them out. This is fine with me as long as the can last maybe 100 k km before going out.

You can lift the front all you want on a independent front suspension vehicle. Your still going to have the solid rear axle. The only thing that increases its ground clearance is bigger diameter tires. Doesn't really matter if the front can clear something if back cant.

 

[kurek]

Uh... Ok.

 

[RedSRT4Me]

You can lift the front all you want on a independent front suspension vehicle. Your still going to have the solid rear axle. The only thing that increases its ground clearance is bigger diameter tires. Doesn't really matter if the front can clear something if back cant.

Reading this I get your point. The rear axle pumpkin will be the lowest point of the vehicle. But in offroading what your saying doesn't make sense because either:

A: you've never been offroading

or

B: you're simplifying the scenario too much and not account for suspension flex. It's almost like your not comprehending how suspension works based on the above statement.