Synthetic Oil

Burla · Jul 1, 2018

I forget guys can you remind me? Was it the experience of the forum to have lower or higher temps with redline 5w30? I know we had higher pressures slightly, but I thought we had lower temps? I am pretty sure we did with tranny's.

chrisbh17 · Jul 1, 2018

U&A said:
I have seem that stuff. Do you have a VOA/UOA or any base stock info on it?

Same here, no UOA or VOA on BITOG which is odd.

The PI sheet makes it look..meh, but there is still a lot that it doesnt show: https://na21.springcm.com/atlas/Lin...2d889bd1/dd7306bd-0ee0-e711-9c12-ac162d889bd1

U&A · Jul 1, 2018

Burla said:
I forget guys can you remind me? Was it the experience of the forum to have lower or higher temps with redline 5w30? I know we had higher pressures slightly, but I thought we had lower temps? I am pretty sure we did with tranny's.

My engine oil temps dropped significantly. I even say almost 7-10 degrees on average over amsoil and PUP.

My trans temps stay the same (atf+4 and redline c+atf) during normal driving but under heavy loads during towing and what not redline showed a huge difference in temperatures. With redline c+atf Operating temps during heavy towing are almost identical to daily driving ...vs. ATF +4 had a huge spike.

Burla · Jul 1, 2018

chrisbh17 said:
Same here, no UOA or VOA on BITOG which is odd.

The PI sheet makes it look..meh, but there is still a lot that it doesnt show: https://na21.springcm.com/atlas/Lin...2d889bd1/dd7306bd-0ee0-e711-9c12-ac162d889bd1

What stands out to me is the high cst and noack, at least on the 5w20. I wonder what the long term performance would be on a uoa as far as if it holds the operating temp visc over time.

Burla · Jul 1, 2018

U&A said:
My engine oil temps dropped significantly. I even say almost 7-10 degrees on average over amsoil and PUP.

My trans temps stay the same during normal driving but under heavy loads during towing and what not redline showed a huge difference in temperatures. With redline c+atf Operating temps during heavy towing are almost identical to daily driving ...vs. ATF +4 had a huge spike.

So adding friction created lower temps, you must be crazy? Or the industry has created engines with too little friction?

huntergreen · Jul 1, 2018

U&A said:
Mike. Though ZDDP actually creats some friction as well as prevents and controls ( <<< diferent subject) it I am thinking you are associating the “thicker oil & ester/pao makes more friction” with the word “drag” .......or better yet “parasitic drag“ from the grater viscosity and nature of ester/pao?

This i see and agree with 100%. Thicker oil and ester/pao creates more drag so technically more friction. Pao and esters are very “clingy”. This creates friction. But not necessarily metal to metal friction.

Nice post. I have always thought of drag and friction separately. Was under the impression that surfaces needed to be touching in order to creat friction. Am I correct that RL, though creating a barrier against metal on metal, is also the source of friction ? Thanks.

chrisbh17 · Jul 1, 2018

Burla said:
What stands out to me is the high cst and noack, at least on the 5w20. I wonder what the long term performance would be on a uoa as far as if it holds the operating temp visc over time.

Yeah the NOACK was disappointing. Maybe its really really good, just not for long?

Havent driven my truck in a few days, will see what my "might be ticking noise" sounds like today. I added probably half a bottle of MOS2 about a week ago, put maybe 250 miles on it since so hopefully it has an effect. Otherwise Ill drive right to Walmart and pick up some good old PYB

Burla · Jul 1, 2018

Are there only two surfaces? Or does the oil act like a third surface? The oil is the resistance for sure.

Burla · Jul 1, 2018

Two dry surfaces that move over each other is the dreaded stiction.

U&A · Jul 1, 2018

Could the oil between surfaces be considerd “rolling friction” in a sense as the round oil molecules “roll” between the metal parts preventing them from touching. Higher viscosity = larger molecules. Sheared oil molecules = smaller
molecules = thinner oil = less “fluid drag/friction” but possibly greater chance of metal to metal contact/friction.

And then you have somthing like moly filling imperfections, reducing friction, but the ZDDP would be constantly doing its thing > superficially plating and then getting wiped away thus also creating friction/drag... tho preventing metal to metal contact.

Friction is friction. Just that and only that.

Check this **** out (all is good but the last paragraph is great)

https://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/29181/reduce-friction-surfaces

R.L.K. · Jul 1, 2018

Burla said:
Still waiting on an update from Nutshell, at some point everyone should really start thinking about the real benefits of that formula and hemi lubrication. FCA put us in a box with the hemi weaknesses, guys should really think hard on oil choice imo. Motul as well, other alternatives for that formula. Look at that formula from a DI turbo perspective!!!!

Wow ! Thats a **** load of Molybdenum & Magnesium . .[emoji1303]

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R.L.K. · Jul 1, 2018

U&A said:
That oil looks great. Iv always liked motul looking in from the outside. Never tried it though. Someone should seriously try it instead of redline if they are interested in an oil that quiets things down.

Bet it works well

I agree 100% , I'd try it but I'm not risking my smooth and supper quite 5.7L .

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Ramnewbie · Jul 1, 2018

Here's my temps after 60 miles

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R.L.K. · Jul 1, 2018

Nutshell said:
So, after two weeks not much to report. Only 550 miles as I do t drive it too much. Still a slight tick but I will say over all, Hemi is much quieter. One thing that has stood out is a smoother idle, much smoother. I often drive barefoot (thanks Florida) and when I put my feet on the floor of the truck, I can’t feel the engine run anymore. Sitting at a light with the music cranked, I thought the truck had stalled.

We’ll see how this goes but so far, I have to say I’m impressed.

Good luck !

You know I don't think I've ever driven barefoot ?[emoji16]

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U&A · Jul 1, 2018

Cant ask for better temps on a 95 degree day

Ramnewbie · Jul 1, 2018

Is there a difference in the molecule chain between hydro smashed group 3 and the pao/ester group 4and 5?

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U&A · Jul 1, 2018

R.L.K. said:
Good luck !

You know I don't think I've ever driven barefoot ?[emoji16]

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Funny,

I thought nobody is AK owned shoes. Dont you all just wear denim bib overalls with the legs rolled up and no shirt?

Burla · Jul 1, 2018

This has been posted a lot at bob's, you see the structure of pao's. They are branched chain, esters are dense and polar, both are different from hydro cracked.

huntergreen · Jul 1, 2018

U&A said:
Could the oil between surfaces be considerd “rolling friction” in a sense as the round oil molecules “roll” between the metal parts preventing them from touching. Higher viscosity = larger molecules. Sheared oil molecules = smaller
molecules = thinner oil = less “fluid drag/friction” but possibly greater chance of metal to metal contact/friction.

And then you have somthing like moly filling imperfections, reducing friction, but the ZDDP would be constantly doing its thing > superficially plating and then getting wiped away thus also creating friction/drag... tho preventing metal to metal contact.

Friction is friction. Just that and only that.

Check this **** out (all is good but the last paragraph is great)

https://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/29181/reduce-friction-surfaces

Great article! Thanks for this. There is the term I had forgotten about. Fluid friction.

Burla · Jul 1, 2018

U&A said:
Could the oil between surfaces be considerd “rolling friction” in a sense as the round oil molecules “roll” between the metal parts preventing them from touching. Higher viscosity = larger molecules. Sheared oil molecules = smaller
molecules = thinner oil = less “fluid drag/friction” but possibly greater chance of metal to metal contact/friction.

And then you have somthing like moly filling imperfections, reducing friction, but the ZDDP would be constantly doing its thing > superficially plating and then getting wiped away thus also creating friction/drag... tho preventing metal to metal contact.

Friction is friction. Just that and only that.

Check this **** out (all is good but the last paragraph is great)

https://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/29181/reduce-friction-surfaces

I think we found a winner to Burla's question...

If the oil film is sufficient to keep the surfaces separated but is too high a viscosity for the speed of the moving surfaces, then some drag or internal resistance within the fluid (fluid friction) will occur. This can be thought of as friction caused by layers of oil being forced to slide past each other .

Fluid Friction.

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