Gas vs Diesel

I am looking at getting out of a half ton and into a 3/4 ton. I want to get a toy hauler trailer and I have a 4 seater RZR. for what im looking at i will be pulling about 8-11k depending what I end up going with total. I know the diesel is going to pull a little better but I am worried about all the problems there can be. I also would like to by used and let someone else take the hit of a new vehicle. If i was buying new i would just go with the diesel and have a warranty. I have been reading on the 6.4 Hemi there is lifter problems? Is it on certain years or they all can have this? Just looking for some opinions right now.

Brandon32689 said:

I am looking at getting out of a half ton and into a 3/4 ton. I want to get a toy hauler trailer and I have a 4 seater RZR. for what im looking at i will be pulling about 8-11k depending what I end up going with total. I know the diesel is going to pull a little better but I am worried about all the problems there can be. I also would like to by used and let someone else take the hit of a new vehicle. If i was buying new i would just go with the diesel and have a warranty. I have been reading on the 6.4 Hemi there is lifter problems? Is it on certain years or they all can have this? Just looking for some opinions right now.

Click to expand...

If I was considering buying a gas truck right now, it would only be a new 6.4/8-speed combo(until the 2020 7.3/10-speed SuperDuty is available). The lifter problem was a limited issue from mid ‘14-15 models I believe. Some of us with higher mileage are starting to see the exhaust manifold issue that is similar to the 5.7s.

Around here, an used HD truck fetches an almost new price unless it has a couple hundred thousand miles or it has been ragged out. Couple that with the interest rate difference on new and used(if you need to finance) and no warranty, it’s not worth it to go used unless you find a gem.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

NewBlackDak said:

If I was considering buying a gas truck right now, it would only be a new 6.4/8-speed combo(until the 2020 7.3/10-speed SuperDuty is available). The lifter problem was a limited issue from mid ‘14-15 models I believe. Some of us with higher mileage are starting to see the exhaust manifold issue that is similar to the 5.7s.

Around here, an used HD truck fetches an almost new price unless it has a couple hundred thousand miles or it has been ragged out. Couple that with the interest rate difference on new and used(if you need to finance) and no warranty, it’s not worth it to go used unless you find a gem.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

Those are all great points. I have not completely decided not to go with new. I just have not seen a great deal yet that i can not pass up. I have had a 06 mega cab with the 5.9 a long time ago and loved the truck. I have not really been hauling much so went back to a half ton Chevy. Now that our kidos are older and I want to get a camper i have been looking at something that is not going to struggle to pull.

How often do you plan on pulling the trailer. Once a month? I would just get gas. Every weekend or more? probably safer with a diesel

I went from a '97 5.9 gasser 4x4 with 4.10 gears which I've has since 2000 and now has close to 290,000+ miles, to a used 2017 2500 CTD with only 33,000+ miles on it.
When the 5.9 was pretty new it had 3.54 gears and it just struggled pulling my TT which might only go 9,000 lbs fully loaded including everything in the truck bed. So I had 4.10 gears installed. It was much better of course and we managed quite well over the years.
Fast forward to this year when I bought my 2500 CTD 4x4. It has 3.42 gears and has the power to tow the same trailer in 5th gear OD.
The same mountains my gasser would downshift into 2nd the 6.7 climbs in OD.
In my area diesel is a few cents cheaper than gas and when I consider my towing MPG with the 5.9 was about 6-8 MPG and now my towing MPG is 12-14 MPG, it's a major win.
Empty the 5.9 would get 13 MPG on a good day on the highway, the 6.7 gets 22-24 MPG empty on the highway.
My wife and I will be travelling a lot and towing the TT so it just made sense to upgrade to a diesel. Also we plan on buying a 5th wheel in the future.
Good luck with your truck search.

^^^^
I agree with bigseff, if you're only gonna pull 9 or 10 times a year, or even once a month for that matter, I would go with the 6.4. To me a diesel is just not worth it unless you are pulling heavy, a lot of miles, or both. I have just started pulling a 13,000+ 5th wheel & it has been pulling great! And that's with the 3.73 gears. I plan on re-gearing this winter to make it even pull better, but I just can't justify paying what they are asking for trucks right now, just to pull heavy for a few times a year. Trucks are beyond stupid expensive right now! About 6 months ago I saw a 1500 Big Horn that was $5,000 more than my 2500 Outdoorsman! And the auto company's don't understand why sales are down!

I have a 16 2500 cclb 6.4 has the 3.73 gears i only pull up to around 11000lbs and it does just fine. Love the truck. I pull about 2x a month. Also pull a 6500lb boat all the time. The 4.10 gear is good up to in the 16k's i believe. I do agree on the 8 speed i love the trans in my 14 1500. I think the 6.4 and 8 speed is a great combo.

If the Razr good in hybrid bed, while towing a travel trailer, you night want to look at 3500s. I never but me myself, and do 95% of any repairs and maintenance myself. So a used truck is a no brainer for me. I got my 2010 4th gen gasser for about 25% of what a new truck would have cost, though similar trucks are nearer to 40-50% of new (I just happened to get a smoking deal). I'm happy I upgraded to a 2500 from a half ton. So it really depends on your own situation and preferences. While I love the thought of a diesel, I couldn't justify the cost and the increased complexity had me a little more concerned about doing my own maintenance.

comrade! keep in mind the diesels hold their value better than the gassers. i had a 16 6.4 2500. it drove great at sea level. however i live at 9400 feet. the truck turned into a dog. had it 2 years, the transmission could never be happy here with all the hills. so i traded it in for a cummins with the g56 manual trans. mostly because im a caveman. turbos help compensate for what the altitude takes away. i have heard great things about the new trans behind the 6.4. cheers!

I came from a 15 Cummins to a 18 Power Wagon. Love the decision. 6.4 handles my towing needs with ease and never once have I regretted my decision. Cummins was great, I just didn't need a diesel.

Sent from my LM-G820 using Tapatalk

I have not fully decided on a toy hauler. Right now a I have a 18 foot utility trailer. I have not towed it with my half ton truck but have with my 6.2 liter yukon and it sucks. Ive been looking at toy haulers and just know i will have trouble with the pickup i have now (2013 gmc Sierra 5.3 4x4) so thinking about a trade. I would say i would use it to tow maybe twice a month and each time no further than 4 hours each way or something similar to that. I know a diesel is going to pull better no matter what. Im trying to justify the cost if its worth it.

I had a CTD (2012) and it towed great. I mostly am around 12K and not towing real often so I went with a 18' 6.4 and am pleased with it. Does a great job and around us gas is about 50-60 cents less a gallon so the mileage isn't an issue.

code54 said:

I had a CTD (2012) and it towed great. I mostly am around 12K and not towing real often so I went with a 18' 6.4 and am pleased with it. Does a great job and around us gas is about 50-60 cents less a gallon so the mileage isn't an issue.

Click to expand...

I would love to get another CTD. I just do not want to pay what a nee ones going for. And im scared of problems and no warranty on a used one.

OP, as usual, you've got a lot of great responses here...let me throw out another thought and that's how the truck feels out on the open road. I've been looking at upgrading from a '16 Rebel to a 2500 for about six months or so and I've test-driven everything from '17 Tradesman CTDs to '19 6.4s with the 8-speeds and the off-road packages. Some have only had 10 miles on 'em while others have had 54K. Granted, I've only hit the streets and highways of Dallas-Fort Worth during these drives, but I think I got a good taste of how these HDs roll.

To me, the best-riding truck out there (empty, mind you) has been the CTDs. Sure, they're nose heavy -- as are all trucks when they're unloaded -- but they just feel right. They really do remind more of my Rebel than the 6.4s and you'd think it'd be the other way around. Of course, my Reb has air suspension and rides really well, so that surely factors into it.

Should you base a buying decision on that? Of course not, but it is a consideration unless you simply putter around the neighborhood on occasion. We all want trucks that ride halfway decently, even 2500s, and we should expect as much in this day and age.

My suggestion, if you haven't already, is drive a passel of 'em (both gassers and CTDs) first, then go over the numbers. I know doing so has helped me tremendously...I plan to get a CTD in the very near future.

TXCOMT

code54 said:

I had a CTD (2012) and it towed great. I mostly am around 12K and not towing real often so I went with a 18' 6.4 and am pleased with it. Does a great job and around us gas is about 50-60 cents less a gallon so the mileage isn't an issue.

Click to expand...

Taking the average fuel mileage of the 6.4L and Cummins on Fuelly.com, diesel would have to be at 80-90 cents more to have the same cost per mile. Anything less than that, the diesel has a lower cost per mile.

SouthTexan said:

Taking the average fuel mileage of the 6.4L and Cummins on Fuelly.com, diesel would have to be at 80-90 cents more to have the same cost per mile. Anything less than that, the diesel has a lower cost per mile.

Click to expand...

Are you accounting for DEF and fuel fuel filter changes with that? How about the 4/5 as often, but larger capacity oil change and more expensive oil filter.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

NewBlackDak said:

Are you accounting for DEF and fuel fuel filter changes with that? How about the 4/5 as often, but larger capacity oil change and more expensive oil filter.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

I was only talking in regards to fuel cost per mile since the person I quoted stated the difference in fuel costs. Some people think that just because fuel is 50-60 higher, then it has a higher cost per mile. This is not true. It has to to be another 30-40 cents higher for them the be even.

In regards to DEF, it only adds $.001-.003 to the cost per mile. Going on the average fuel mileage on Fulley.com with the 6.4L being 12 mpg and the Cummins being 15.5 mpg. Then taking my current fuel prices of $2.30 for regular 87 octane and diesel being $2.60. That would bring the cost per mile of the 6.4L to $.19 cents and the diesel to $.17 cents so even adding in DEF at a cost per mile of $.003 still doesn't put the diesel over the cost per mile.

As far as filters go. Yes, each individual oil/fuel filter change does cost more than the 6.4L, but you can go twice as long. It costs me $160 to change my oil and fuel filters every 15,000 miles. Probably less if I shop for deals on oil. From what I have heard from 6.4L owners here, it cost them $75-80 every 8,000 miles. So while the Cummins does cost more per oil change, you can almost go twice as long per oil change making the difference between then two less than $10 which adds $.0007 to the cost per mile.

I believe He has Posted a Comparison on costs related to each vehicle for maintenance. Maybe he can Re post that.

NewBlackDak said:

Are you accounting for DEF and fuel fuel filter changes with that? How about the 4/5 as often, but larger capacity oil change and more expensive oil filter.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

...And the amount of miles you have to drive FIRST to make up for the extra cost of the engine option before one can even benefit from the cost per mile.

I went from a heavily modded half ton Hemi to a CTD back in march and I love it. I cant speak for the 6.4 as I have never drove one, but I can tell you when I was looking that I had the same questions. I don't do a lot of towing and I also daily drive this truck so I'm sure that puts me in the minority. So far it is not as bad as a lot of people will tell you. Since March I have only had to put Def in once, and I am just under a half tank right now. I change my own oil and it is more expensive per change but you can go longer intervals which offsets the cost there. I know that there can be some things that can get expensive down the road but that is true with any truck. The fuel filter changes do suck but its maybe twice a year for me or about $15 a month if you want to look at it that way.
I did buy used and think i got a good deal. I wouldn't have went diesel if i was buying new as I could not justify that payment. If the right 6.4 had come along when I was looking, I probably would be in one of those right now, but I went this route and so far I have no regrets. The thing I love the most is how easy it is to drive down the highway. Once you get up to speed its like you barely have to give it any fuel. I have to be careful because it is really easy to let this thing get away and be doing 90 without knowing it.