2009 4.7L - 4.10 or 4.56 rear gear

[Sherman Bird]

Ok, I’ve done some searches and I’ve seen 4.56 recommended a lot for 4.7 trucks, but I many of those people had larger tires. Getting ready to redo the rear gear and trying to decide between 4.10 and 4.56 for a truck with the stock 265/70r17 tire size and no plans to go larger?

I have a daily driver so don’t drive the truck a ton, and I tow a trailer once a month anywhere from 60 - 200 miles one way. Trailer currently weighs in at 5100, but has a GVWR of 7k and could reasonably weigh up to 6400 depending on what we put in it. It is a tall cargo trailer with the same wind resistance as an RV.

Right now in 3rd (4th on display in tow) gear (1:1 gear) I can run 2500 at 65, but I have to downshift to 2P (1.5:1 gear) to pull gentle rolling hills.

If I go to 4.10 I’ll be at 2850 to hold 65 in 3rd, and closer to 3200 with 4.56. 4.56 could open up using the .75 overdrive on the highway with 2400rpm at 66.

Unloaded on the highway Im looking at 2200rpm at 75 with the 4.10, and 2400 with the 4.56.

I kind of wish there was a 4.30 option but I don’t see one.

You should calculate the best volumetric efficiency to getting perfect lambda at your target rpm on the highway. This will truly aid you in determining the gear ratio best for you. Inasmuch as the speed you'll be travelling will vary, then, I'd recommend the 4.10:1

 

[09SilverRam]

You should calculate the best volumetric efficiency to getting perfect lambda at your target rpm on the highway. This will truly aid you in determining the gear ratio best for you. Inasmuch as the speed you'll be travelling will vary, then, I'd recommend the 4.10:1

Already going the 4.56 path, will get results later in Oct .

 

[DILLIGAF]

going the 4.56 path

Hell yeah

 

[Wild one]

Already going the 4.56 path, will get results later in Oct .

Why not throw a convertor in it,as the 4.7 is seriously lacking in torque under 3500. I managed to get 260 rwhp out of my old 13 with the 4.7,but it definitely should of had a convertor thrown into,but i gave up on it,and swapped the truck for a hemi truck,after throwing pretty well every off the shelf part i could throw at it

 

[09SilverRam]

Why not throw a convertor in it,as the 4.7 is seriously lacking in torque under 3500. I managed to get 260 rwhp out of my old 13 with the 4.7,but it definitely should of had a convertor thrown into,but i gave up on it,and swapped the truck for a hemi truck,after throwing pretty well every off the shelf part i could throw at it

Honestly what it needs is an 8 speed. I know there was some debate on if you could swap an 8 speed into a 4.7 truck and the person trying it seems to have given up. Would be an interesting swap, but when my 545rfe gives up I’ll probably just order a reman.

 

[Wild one]

Honestly what it needs is an 8 speed. I know there was some debate on if you could swap an 8 speed into a 4.7 truck and the person trying it seems to have given up. Would be an interesting swap, but when my 545rfe gives up I’ll probably just order a reman.

I always thought the 8 speed would of been ideal behind a 4.7.I don't think it's any harder to swap a 8 speed into a 4.7 truck then it would be a hemi,they both use the same bellhousing and transmission mounting,so the only thing that might be a stumbling block would be the tuning,and i don't see it being an issue with HP

 

[crackerjack1957]

East Coast Gears recommended Lucas High Performance.

Lucas Oil 10042-12 85w-140 Gear Oil Case/12 https://a.co/d/dXRqIDe

 

[09SilverRam]

Shop has been struggling to get the gears quiet. Noise (whine) between 45 and 55 mph. They set up the first Yukon ring and pinion a few different ways, and are now trying Motive Ring and pinion.

They swapped the driveshaft as a test because Yukon was trying to blame the noise on the driveshaft.

10/22 Pinion shim depth .032”
Pinion preload 18 in/lb BL .010”

10/29 moved Bl- .007

11/5 swapped driveshaft

11/7 #1 Took .029 shim from initial setup and replace with factory .024 shim after recommended by another mechanic.

11/7 #2 went for an extreme change slightly out of specs to see if any change. 14 Backlash 15 Pinion Preload .024 Pinion Depth

11/19 new gear and pinion, new install kit, Pinion shim .024 Pinion preload 16 in/lb BL .010”

 

[09SilverRam]

I’m trying to get them to tighten backlash up to .008 and confirm what torque and the order they are torquing the adjusters to preload the case. Everyone says the 9.25 is different to set up and this is I think where it is different so trying to get them to follow the FSM procedure of order and torque for the adjusters.


2 Loosen left-side adjuster and tighten right-side threaded adjuster with Wrench C-4164 (3) to obtain a backlash of 0.076 - 0.102 mm (0.003 - 0.004 in.).


3 Tighten both adjusters to 14 N.m (10 ft. lbs.). Seat differential bearing cups by rapidly rotating the pinion gear a half turn back and forth several times.


4 Tighten differential bearing cap bolts 136 N.m (100 ft. lbs.).


5 Tighten right-side threaded adjuster to 102 N.m (75 ft. lbs.). Seat differential bearing cups by rapidly rotating the pinion gear a half turn back and forth several times. Continue this procedure until right-side adjuster torque remains a constant 102 N.m (75 ft. lbs.).


6 Measure the ring gear backlash. Backlash should be 0.12 - 0.20 mm (0.005 - 0.008 in.).
If backlash is less than 0.12 mm (0.005 in.) increase the torque on the right-side threaded adjuster until specified backlash is obtained.
If backlash is more than 0.20 mm (0.008 in.) repeat procedure from the beginning.


7 Tighten left-side threaded adjuster to 102 N.m (75 ft. lbs.). Seat differential bearing cups by rapidly rotating the pinion gear a half turn back and forth several times. Continue this procedure until left-side adjuster torque remains a constant 102 N.m (75 ft. lbs.).


8 Install threaded adjuster locks and tighten the lock screws to 10 N.m (90 in. lbs.).

 

[DILLIGAF]

If I can get a proper gear pattern in my home shop with Amazon tools, You should bring it to another shop...

Those #s dont mean ****, They are just feeding you ******** to keep you happy. the paint pattern is all that matters. ( obviously the TQ specs are followed )

All I use is Yukon gears and Motive Gears both are quiet . This is 110% an installer issue, specially when they are pulling the pinion shim once the install is done

9 of my 10 gear swap, The OEM shim is the one that gives the best pattern. Did those clown even use a set-up bearing ?

 

[09SilverRam]

They say that they sent paint up pics to Yukon and Yukon blessed the setup. Going to ask for the last paint up pics.

I haven’t picked the truck up yet. I am leaving it for them to figure this out. I’m starting to get time crunched, I need to pull a trailer to Hardy Ar after Christmas, so I need to break in new gears before then.

One concern I have is that they couldn’t tell me him many ft lbs they cranked the side adjusters to, so even if it paints up good if they aren’t getting enough carrier preload it could be moving.

I sent it to them because they do two sets of gears a week, are Yukon master installers, and should know what they are doing. What I’m figuring out is the 9.25 is different, and them setting up two sets of Dana gears a week in jeeps isn’t helping.

I’ve watched so much YouTube and read the FSM trying to figure out what they are doing wrong I think I could probably buy an inch pounds beam wrench, dial indicators and mag base, and the big ass Allen key for the adjusters and do it.

 

[Jeepwalker]

I assume they replaced the bearings and races, right? BC there was a deal a long time ago with a Ram service bulletin. They would replace a bearing (actually I don't know if was the bearing or whole diff they were replacing) due to a persistent rear end whine caused by a cracked outer race on the carrier bearing on SOME certain Rams...from the factory.

Maybe the root cause of the whine isn't the gear set-up but a bad bearing/race. Maybe the bore is machined too large and the race also cracked. Apparently it was hairline crack causing the Ram whine.

It might be worth looking up the years of that issue. But even if yours wasn't within that issue timeline ....they could have received a bad bearing/race. A guy can't really see the inner races. Or did they change the bearings in an attempt to eliminate the noise?

They're sure it's coming from the rear and not somewhere else? I've repaired things and then there's another noise, but was a new problem (like a failing front wheel bearing), that just by bad-luck occurred right after the main issue I resolved.

 

[09SilverRam]

I assume they replaced the bearings and races, right? BC there was a deal a long time ago with a Ram service bulletin. They would replace a bearing (actually I don't know if was the bearing or whole diff they were replacing) due to a persistent rear end whine caused by a cracked outer race on the carrier bearing on SOME certain Rams...from the factory.

Maybe the root cause of the whine isn't the gear set-up but a bad bearing/race. Maybe the bore is machined too large and the race also cracked. Apparently it was hairline crack causing the Ram whine.

It might be worth looking up the years of that issue. But even if yours wasn't within that issue timeline ....they could have received a bad bearing/race. A guy can't really see the inner races. Or did they change the bearings in an attempt to eliminate the noise?

They're sure it's coming from the rear and not somewhere else? I've repaired things and then there's another noise, but was a new problem (like a failing front wheel bearing), that just by bad-luck occurred right after the main issue I resolved.

Bearings and races replaced twice. Once with the first set of gears and once with the second.

 

[GTyankee]

Your 2009 Dodge Ram, when it was Stock from the Factory
IF it is a 1/2 ton, 1500 model

It came with an AAM 9.25 rear axle
AMERICAN AXLE & MANUFACTURING
The AAM 9.25 rear axle was used on Dodge Ram trucks from 2003 through 2010:

If i am not mistaken, they had a RFE 545 Transmission, so it was a 5 speed

(then everything changed, different specs.
again, if am not mistaken, in 2011 Dodge Ram 1500s changed over to the ZF 9.25 rear axle )

Dodge Ram 1500 Differential Rebuild

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

 

[09SilverRam]

Paint up pics from current setup.

Pinion shim .024”
Pinion preload 16 in/lb
BL .010”

Noise between 45 and 55.

I’m picking it up today and putting a generic chassis ear on it to see if the noise is coming from the pinion or the transmission output.

They are giving me the option to re-install my factory gears and carrier if I still think the noise is coming from the rear end.

 

[Jeepwalker]

I’m picking it up today and putting a generic chassis ear on it to see if the noise is coming from the pinion or the transmission output.

That sounds like a good plan. Let us know what you find. Try moving it around on the rear (if that's the source) to zero in on the worst area ...if you can

 

[09SilverRam]

That sounds like a good plan. Let us know what you find. Try moving it around on the rear (if that's the source) to zero in on the worst area ...if you can

I have like 6 pickups for the chassis ear. I was going to try and get one near the front pinion bearing and one on the side near the carrier bearings, and one on the tail shaft extension of the transmission.

 

[09SilverRam]

Spent some time driving it today. There is a very faint coast deceleration whine at all speeds, but it is very faint and completely something I could live with. Radio or AC blower cover it.

Under acceleration the loud whine kicks in at 45 and is loudest at 50 then starts going back down in volume. If I lift off the accelerator it stops immediately.

Going to hook up the chassis ear and do more work with it tomorrow.

 

[09SilverRam]

Put the chassis ear on it with a pickup on the tail shaft of the transmission, one near the carrier bearing on the side of the case, and one right on the front of the diff near the pinion yoke.



The shop said “everyone involved thinks the noise is coming from the transmission”. Nothing from the pickup on the transmission. Gear whine is audible on the carrier bearing pickup, but is very pronounced on the pinion pickup. 100% where the noise is common from you can flick it on and off as a quits as soon as you lift the accelerator and the pinion isn’t loaded.

Based on all my reading my assumption is that it is losing the preload on the pinion bearings.

They have my stock gears, and are offering to refund my money and install stock gear and carrier. I think I’m going to go down that path and either find another shop, or tackle it myself. Or see if I can junkyard a 4:10 rear.

I don’t want to drop the carrier and check the preload now, once I open that thing up I’m stuck with it. Much harder to get them to refund me when they can blame me. If I do it myself I’m ordering REM polished gears and using a crush sleeve eliminator.

 

[DILLIGAF]

crush sleeve eliminator isnt that great btw.

I only it used it once, the amount of time wasted to get the proper pre-load isnt worth the hassle.