2011 Ram 1500 Misfire

[PowaaaWagoon]

Here we go… hoping someone can help on an issue with my neighbour’s truck… 2011 Ram 1500 with 165,000kms. Just purchased it and had cylinder 5 misfire. Found a shop in town that works exclusively on Hemi engines, and got the following done… plus a few extras while in there… manifold and studs and gaskets. Lifters and cam. Coil packs and plugs. New gaskets as required. New water pump and a hellcat oil pump. Seemed to be okay but had a bit of a rough idle the whole time. CEL came on again, same cylinder 5 misfire. During misfire scan, the misfires were happening at idle, and when revved up, the misfires stop and then continue once rpms go back to idle.

I’ve tried helping as best I could based on my own truck knowledge with my PW and what I’ve learned along the way from forums and working on my own rig… but this one has me a bit stumped. I’m getting my volt meter from the shop and will check battery voltage, as someone suggested that could cause the symptoms? I’m skeptical but at this point a battery is a quick and cheap thing to check. He’s added some fuel cleaner and thought it might have helped, but it could be a placebo effect… so now he’s thinking maybe injectors, but that’s a big what if to throw money at again after just spending 8K to do the other work and not have the problem corrected. Mechanic that did his work said his cam and lifters weren’t that wiped out either.

Thoughts Ram gurus?

 

[Burla]

Did he ask the shop? How many miles since shop did the work? Already swapped plugs and coil pack with healthy cylinder? No valve work was done on 5?

 

[Burla]

Did he get the old cam back? Always get the old part, make sure the cam lob was worn?

 

[PowaaaWagoon]

Did he ask the shop? How many miles since shop did the work? Already swapped plugs and coil pack with healthy cylinder? No valve work was done on 5?

The shop, in my opinion, is being a little less helpful than I’d expect - they basically said they did everything right and it’s obviously something else. I’d venture to guess a few hundred kms since the work was done before the same issue popped back up. I’ll have to ask about balance work but I believe he mentioned they were machined and seated. He did not get old parts back. Mechanic said there wasn’t that much wiped off lobe - so maybe something else was the cause of all this in the first place.

 

[Wild one]

The shop, in my opinion, is being a little less helpful than I’d expect - they basically said they did everything right and it’s obviously something else. I’d venture to guess a few hundred kms since the work was done before the same issue popped back up. I’ll have to ask about balance work but I believe he mentioned they were machined and seated. He did not get old parts back. Mechanic said there wasn’t that much wiped off lobe - so maybe something else was the cause of all this in the first place.

If you've already done the coil/injector swap,and it's still misfiring on 5,the next step is to do a compression test and see if 5 is down on psi compared to the other 7 cylinders,if it is it's time to pull valve covers and make sure all the rockers are moving roughly the same amount when bumping it over on the starter.Did the shop use OEM parts or cheaper aftermarket parts,as the majority of aftermarket lifters don't really have a great rep.

 

[Burla]

And sue the shop in small claims, why replace a cam if there is no wiped cam lob?

 

[Burla]

Since it is 5 as well, mise well do injector on 5.

You see if code travels with plug/coil pack with healthy cylinder, super easy to do. If codes travels, you know it is plug or coil pack. If not, it is hard part on 5, injector, push rod, lifter, valve, rocker arm, etc.

 

[PowaaaWagoon]

If you've already done the coil/injector swap,and it's still misfiring on 5,the next step is to do a compression test and see if 5 is down on psi compared to the other 7 cylinders,if it is it's time to pull valve covers and make sure all the rockers are moving roughly the same amount when bumping it over on the starter.Did the shop use OEM parts or cheaper aftermarket parts,as the majority of aftermarket lifters don't really have a great rep.

Great points regarding where the parts were sourced - I’ll have him ask. Thanks for the recommendation of next steps to take!

 

[PowaaaWagoon]

And sue the shop in small claims, why replace a cam if there is no wiped cam lob?from what

And sue the shop in small claims, why replace a cam if there is no wiped cam lob?

From what I recall him saying, there wasn’t wear just not as much as he’s seen or expected / far less than what he would normally see in this situation. In other words, I’m sure there’s still truck on the road with as much or more lobe damage and they’re still “ticking” along (dad jokes…)

 

[PowaaaWagoon]

Since it is 5 as well, mise well do injector on 5.

You see if code travels with plug/coil pack with healthy cylinder, super easy to do. If codes travels, you know it is plug or coil pack. If not, it is hard part on 5, injector, push rod, lifter, valve, rocker arm, etc.

Thanks again for your help, Burla! I was hoping you and Wild One were going to be the ones to jump in this thread, and so far you’re the only ones commenting, so I didn’t have to dig through a bunch of MDS conspiracy theories to get to the good stuff

 

[Burla]

From what I recall him saying, there wasn’t wear just not as much as he’s seen or expected / far less than what he would normally see in this situation. In other words, I’m sure there’s still truck on the road with as much or more lobe damage and they’re still “ticking” along (dad jokes…)

In order for a mis fire on 5 to be cam related, the cam lob would need to be worn to the nub. At a minimum it could be pitted to hell and back, so total B's the cam caused mis fire unless the cam lob looked like it did in vid below.

What caused the U shape wear on the CAMSHAFT of the Hemi Motors. Ticking noise with Lifter Failure.

Thanks for viewing an Online Mechanic Tips video with JT the Car Guy. As always ask any questions you may have but please consider subscribing to the channel...

youtu.be

 

[EdGs]

What does "not as much wear as he's seen/far less than what he would normally see" mean?

If it's worn/wearing, it needs replacing, but why is it worn? There is a cause.

Here is my #5 intake lobe. Not yet to the point of a misfire, roller needles on lifter were shot.


Here are both lobes for #8 cylinder, both lifters still good, but lobes are worn just through the surface, and won't be long for the world, IMO.



With your friends continuing misfire, I wonder if he might have an injector issue as @Burla stated. Sounds like the only thing not replaced.

I wish you and your friend the best getting it sorted out.

 

[Wild one]

Injector cleaning

Supposed to go cold and snow for the next 10 days,so i figured it was a good time to pull the injectors and give them a cleaning.Got them soaking in injector cleaner,where i'll probably leave them for a couple days before using some carb and choke cleaner to wash them out using my old homemade...

www.ramforum.com

Coil cleaning pics

Yea i know my picture taking abilities suck,lol Hopefully you guys can tell how i go about cleaning up the coils from the pic's. The first pic,is just a pic of everything disassembled.If your truck has the resistors under the spring in the coil towers,you'll want to remove them and clean them...

www.ramforum.com

 

[PowaaaWagoon]

What does "not as much wear as he's seen/far less than what he would normally see" mean?

If it's worn/wearing, it needs replacing, but why is it worn? There is a cause.

Here is my #5 intake lobe. Not yet to the point of a misfire, roller needles on lifter were shot.

View attachment 572088
Here are both lobes for #8 cylinder, both lifters still good, but lobes are worn just through the surface, and won't be long for the world, IMO.
View attachment 572091
View attachment 572089

With your friends continuing misfire, I wonder if he might have an injector issue as @Burla stated. Sounds like the only thing not replaced.

I wish you and your friend the best getting it sorted out.

Fair point! I have been trying to drink from a half full glass when discussing things with him - “at least you’re on the way to a bullet proofed hemi!”

 

[EdGs]

I hope the mechanic used a good quality camshaft and lifters in your friends Ram.

He did not delete the mds by chance, did he? That could make some difference as you might need some tuning.

Would still be nice to see the old ones though, that could tell part of the story.

Wish I knew what more to tell you except check out those injectors.

Please post your progress, your solutions help others in the long run, this forum is such an awesome site, it's helped me tremendously on my Ram knowledge.

 

[PowaaaWagoon]

I hope the mechanic used a good quality camshaft and lifters in your friends Ram.

Would still be nice to see the old ones though, that could tell part of the story.

Wish I knew what more to tell you except check out those injectors.

Please post your progress, your solutions help others in the long run, this forum is such an awesome site, it's helped me tremendously on my Ram knowledge.

I’ll keep the thread updated as we go along!

 

[demonram]

With everything that's been done, I think it has to be a coil pack or the wire for it. They would have caught it when they changed the cam and lifters if it was related to the cam and lifters.

 

[PowaaaWagoon]

Update below when I asked, “any progress on the truck?” (TLDR: he’s got it in another shop and they’re going through it… not out of the woods yet).

“None , the guys here are good and he truly believes it's not related to what the other guy did just he might have missed something on the top end that was more needing addressed than other stuff. He's tested injector spark coils all that stuff, he took the plugs out put a scope down said pistons and valves look amazing so he's gonna take the valve cover back off and just see if there's a bent push rod or valve spring broken”

I’ll post another update soon!

 

[PowaaaWagoon]

2nd Update...

"Not fixed completely, but they switched the injector on cylinder 5 and it's 80% better. Did further testing, nothing obvious at this point, so maybe a injector rail or computer issue."

He's got the truck home now, and was advised to keep driving it until they have time to dig deeper. This is a different shop than the one that did the initial work. The current shop examined all work done at the other shop and confirmed it was all done correctly.

 

[Sherman Bird]

I’ll keep the thread updated as we go along!

Comments such as "You're on your way to a bullet proof Hemi" peg my bull$hit meter.