2017 - More horsepower + more gears = less performance?

[Jebb]

How come my 2004 Ram 1500 Hemi with the 345HP and 5 speed trans seemed so much faster than my new 2017 Hemi 1500 with 395HP and 8 speed trans?

The 0-60 time seems slower on the 2017 and it seems to have "less balls" when kicking it down to pass, etc.

The 2017 truck is about 400-500 pounds lighter than the 2004 and has an overall better gear ratio. The 2017 truck also has the Mopar CAI and CATback - the 2004 was stock.

I'm wondering if the 8 speed trans now spends too much time in "torque management mode" - i.e., shutting the throttle down every time it shifts thus spending less time at full power?


I don't have any track or dyno data to compare or prove what I'm feeling - just my impression driving. Is this my imagination - or is there a real reason this could be true?

 

[GzNutz]

What gearing do you have?

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[crackerjack1957]

Only way around torque management is with a modified tune/ unlocked PCM 2015 & later.

 

[GzNutz]

What gearing do you have?

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3.21, 3.55, 3.92???

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[Jebb]

What gearing do you have?

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I have 3.21s - HOWEVER with the 8 speed trans it is still a lower 1st gear ratio than the 5 speed with 4.56 gears.

 

[CBTBOB]

I have 3.92's in mine and the performance is adequate....for now.

 

[Pull Ya]

I think you need to run through a 1/4 or an 1/8th and see if your suspicions are confirmed. That 2004 with the 4.56's got lots of low end go. Even so--I think, with time slips in hand you'll be surprised about the new truck.
Jay

 

[Jebb]

I think you need to run through a 1/4 or an 1/8th and see if your suspicions are confirmed. That 2004 with the 4.56's got lots of low end go. Even so--I think, with time slips in hand you'll be surprised about the new truck.
Jay

Yeah, maybe it's just the fact that the new truck is so smooth with no squeaks or rattles!

The only real issue I have with the gearing is that it is not right for 35s in the upper ranges. It has trouble staying in 8th gear on the freeway when I hit the slightest grade or headwind. 1st gear will spin the tires though on dry ground (35" BFG ATs). IMO, 3.55 gears would be best overall for these tires.

BTW - my 2004 truck had 4.56 gears and there is a side effect to tall ratios like that in a 1500 4x4. Since the front axle is always turning the front axle DRAG increases when you go to higher gears. On wet roads I would sometimes feel the front end "pushing" rather than rolling. I don't want that in my 2017.

 

[Firebird]

3.21 gears are awful. I went to a 2500 because every dealer down here only had 3.21 gears, and I refuse to own those

 

[huntergreen]

Jeb I believe you are correct. I test drove a 2004 in 2004 and clearly remember being pushed back into the seat. I bought the Cummins though. Now on my 11 and 16, it doesn't happen. Imho, it's all the nannies fca put in to protect the drivetrain.

 

[69GWC]

With the 8sp and 3:21s its still probably geared lower then a 2500 with that awful 6sp and its super high gearing.

 

[Pull Ya]

Jeb,
At this point I think unless you got really deep pockets your pretty much stuck with your 3.21's. Changing a late model 4th gen 4x4 gears is -------challenging to say the least. Maybe look into a Pedal Commander--I think you'll be quite surprised the difference it will make in acceleration.
Jay

 

[jasonw]

Jeb,
At this point I think unless you got really deep pockets your pretty much stuck with your 3.21's. Changing a late model 4th gen 4x4 gears is -------challenging to say the least. Maybe look into a Pedal Commander--I think you'll be quite surprised the difference it will make in acceleration.
Jay

+1. By challenging, he means you'd have to swap the entire front axle, as the gears are welded in and cannot be swapped. (Amongst any other additional challenges I may be forgetting.)

 

[Jebb]

Jeb I believe you are correct... Imho, it's all the nannies fca put in to protect the drivetrain.

That's what I'm wondering. My 2004 didn't seem to have any (or at least as much) "torque management" as newer models. In fact I could power brake it and light up the tires with what seemed like full throttle.

A 2005 truck I had would NOT do that even with the same gears/tires. Would just sit there and moan...

I do notice a difference with Traction Control turned off in the 2017 - but I understand there is still some torque management applied.

 

[HDHNTER]

It's the throttle response lag programmed in from the factory that has your 17 feeling neutered. Order a Pedal Commander, you won't regret it.

 

[Jebb]

+1. By challenging, he means you'd have to swap the entire front axle, as the gears are welded in and cannot be swapped. (Amongst any other additional challenges I may be forgetting.)

Woah, what!? Really? I've searched for ring and pinion for these trucks but don't see much around - is that why?

 

[jasonw]

Woah, what!? Really? I've searched for ring and pinion for these trucks but don't see much around - is that why?

By axle, I don't necessarily mean every piece of the front end, but definitely the front "pumpkin" and everything inside of it.

I've read that some guys swap in a 2009-2012 unit from a salvage yard, as those are not supposedly welded, and the gears can be swapped like most other axles. I don't pretend to know everything about that swap, fitment issues, etc., but I know it is possible.

 

[Pull Ya]

Gears and install kits can be found at Moe's Performance, a preferred vendor on this site.
Jay

 

[Ramm5.7]

I never owned a 2004 but my 17 with Edge Pulsar and pedal commander , 3"" add a tube to airbox and free flow filter with a mufflex d18 muffler will sure push me back in my seat as well as pull what seems like forever.
I started with just the pedal commander and it made a world of difference, but I'm greedy and wanted more..lol

 

[James Haynes]

I had a 2008 345hp 2 wheel drive 4 speed auto quad cab and raced it against a 2016 395 hp 8 speed. The newer truck passed me like i was sitting still. I dont know what gears were in either truck.