2024 Limited with Alpine System - What to do Next?

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FL-RAM

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That's what I've read... my 4th Gen with the Alpine was awesome. I get what you're saying. Did you change ALL the speakers?

But yesterday I sat in a 2024 Big Horn with the 9-speaker Alpine, playing Youtube Music streaming from iPhone 12 Pro
I then downloaded that app to my iPhone 12 Pro and streamed it through my 2024 Limited with the Alpine 9-speaker. It did not sound nearly as good. I put the audio settings at exactly the same as the truck at the dealership. Surround on, three EQ's at 0 gain, sound centered.

Even when streaming in my truck it sounds like it's "missing" certain ranges... like I'm listening through a tube. It is very hard to explain.
When listening to XM, the missing ranges are different.

I know one thing... I may never "order" a vehicle again.
Yes, I replaced the two corner dash speakers and the two rear door speakers with Infinity Reference and it made a huge difference (really woke up the back seat for sure). I replaced the front door speakers but those really messed up the Active Noise Cancellation so I put the stock back in. My settings are fader about 2 clicks to the rear, treb all the way up, mid flat, and bass about 3 clicks up.
 
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MD Sledhead

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Hi there,

Our team would like to offer assistance to look into this matter further. Please private message us with these details of your experience, so we can best assist you. Thank you.

Gia
Ram Cares
Message sent
 
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MD Sledhead

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Yes, I replaced the two corner dash speakers and the two rear door speakers with Infinity Reference and it made a huge difference (really woke up the back seat for sure). I replaced the front door speakers but those really messed up the Active Noise Cancellation so I put the stock back in. My settings are fader about 2 clicks to the rear, treb all the way up, mid flat, and bass about 3 clicks up.
I had the ANC unplugged... sounded awful at about 1600 rpm when you're feeding gas. Had them plug it back in.
That didn't make a difference in sound quality.
 

Sherman Bird

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I think that's a mighty broad statement and I don't agree. The digital sound quality is almost always directly related to the amount of data compression used.

In the past 10 years, there has been a wide variety of quality on XFM. Sometimes the quality is fantastic, clear, and full sounding. Other times it sounds dead, tinny, and worthless.

I usually listen to XFM and occasionally, music on a stick. I rarely get through any listening session without being horrified by the crap quality but, for all the great-sounding tunes, it's worth the $6/month.

Now, if I could only find a place to download Classic Vinyl and Classic Rewind types of tunes that don't compress the crap out of the signal.

Every commercial entity is so obsessed with $ that they can't appreciate the value of using a reasonable compression algorithm. Sometimes they make CDs sound like high fidelity. :cool:

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I love this thread!!! :) The blaming of the equipment as opposed to the transmitting dynamics reminds me of blaming the fire truck at the fire FOR the fire! I've gotta go! My popcorn is ready!!!!!
 

FL-RAM

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I had the ANC unplugged... sounded awful at about 1600 rpm when you're feeding gas. Had them plug it back in.
That didn't make a difference in sound quality.
The ANC uses the front speakers. Replacing the front door speakers throws the whole ANC system off. Makes a loud, deep droning sound in low gears. Put the original stock speakers back in and the ANC works perfectly again.
 
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MD Sledhead

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I love this thread!!! :) The blaming of the equipment as opposed to the transmitting dynamics reminds me of blaming the fire truck at the fire FOR the fire! I've gotta go! My popcorn is ready!!!!!
Thanks... very useful information.

Tell me again how you "know" what I'm hearing... or how the same audio source sounds better in a Big Horn than in a Limited?

Please go waste someone else's time.
 

RamDiver

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Thanks... very useful information.

Tell me again how you "know" what I'm hearing... or how the same audio source sounds better in a Big Horn than in a Limited?

Please go waste someone else's time.

Easy there dude.

I don't think that Sherman's comments were necessarily directed at you, persay.

I can appreciate that you obviously have a portion or portions of your sound system that are deficient, if another 2024 sounds noticeably better.

That fault is not in question but a few other items always show up with these threads.

I think Sherman's poke was more directed at those who don't truly understand the principles of audio data compression, encryption, transmission, and reception.

We live in a world where businesses will sell whatever garbage that they can get away with.

If they can compress and encode 25 channels instead of 10 into the same bandwidth and maintain a sufficient amount of customers, they will do it.

And next month, a smart suit will say, if we can accommodate 25 channels into that bandwidth, lets try 30 channels and reduce our uplink costs.

Before CDs arrived, we had LPs and anyone who remembers, is awake, and can recognize the sounds of audio fidelity, will realize that 95% of CDs sound like total crap compared to an LP.

They sound like crap because the audio signal is overcompressed or the compression algorithm used does not allow for proper recovery of the original signal.

I still have a Thorens turntable from the early 80s and out of 100s of CDs that I own, few can come close to most LPs.

I'm writing this essay to share the concept of digital compression/encoding and recovery.

XFM doesn't care about fidelity, they're a business looking to absorb as many of our $ at the least amount of operational costs.

End rant...
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FL-RAM

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Easy there dude.

I don't think that Sherman's comments were necessarily directed at you, persay.

I can appreciate that you obviously have a portion or portions of your sound system that are deficient, if another 2024 sounds noticeably better.

That fault is not in question but a few other items always show up with these threads.

I think Sherman's poke was more directed at those who don't truly understand the principles of audio data compression, encryption, transmission, and reception.

We live in a world where businesses will sell whatever garbage that they can get away with.

If they can compress and encode 25 channels instead of 10 into the same bandwidth and maintain a sufficient amount of customers, they will do it.

And next month, a smart suit will say, if we can accommodate 25 channels into that bandwidth, lets try 30 channels and reduce our uplink costs.

Before CDs arrived, we had LPs and anyone who remembers, is awake, and can recognize the sounds of audio fidelity, will realize that 95% of CDs sound like total crap compared to an LP.

They sound like crap because the audio signal is overcompressed or the compression algorithm used does not allow for proper recovery of the original signal.

I still have a Thorens turntable from the early 80s and out of 100s of CDs that I own, few can come close to most LPs.

I'm writing this essay to share the concept of digital compression/encoding and recovery.

XFM doesn't care about fidelity, they're a business looking to absorb as many of our $ at the least amount of operational costs.

End rant...
.
Correct. Sirius XM makes most of their money by advertising talk shows, sports, and news. Don't need premium sound quality for that. Music is secondary. I do find it odd that not only does XM sound worse than regular FM radio, but it also sounds like my rear speakers don't exist.
 

RamDiver

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Correct. Sirius XM makes most of their money by advertising talk shows, sports, and news. Don't need premium sound quality for that. Music is secondary. I do find it odd that not only does XM sound worse than regular FM radio, but it also sounds like my rear speakers don't exist.

I don't recall when I first started using Sirius but I'm pretty certain that it sounded much better back then though.

IIRC, I started using it sometime in the '90s.

Year after year, the average sound quality has decayed but the dynamic quality range is now enormous.

I'm hesitant to put a number on it but roughly 50-70% of the content is fantastic (depending on the day and planet alignment) and the remainder varies from not too bad to complete crap.

I've tried comparing to OTA FM and sometimes XFM does sound much worse.

One of my concerns about the many complaints I've read about XFM is that people often discuss the sound quality as though it was an audio standard, that it always sounds exactly the same and that is furthest from being accurate.

Some of it sounds great which convinces me that my radio/speaker system is excellent and other times it's just horrid and makes me wonder if it's even worth $6/month.

Your rear speaker issue sounds more like a decryption problem than anything else. If the Sirius receiver is not reproducing the rear channel sounds, there's a decoding fault.

When the sound goes to compressed crap in my truck, it just sounds lifeless, and tinny, with no dynamic range, I still hear all the speakers, AFAIK.

When I hear the next XFM Crapfest song, I'll turn it up instead of channel hopping, and try to determine if I lose any channels.

.
 
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skates15

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The ANC uses the front speakers. Replacing the front door speakers throws the whole ANC system off. Makes a loud, deep droning sound in low gears. Put the original stock speakers back in and the ANC works perfectly again.
I just bought a ANC bypass cable in case I get droning when replacing the front door speakers this weekend. Simple plug and play.
 

skates15

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Now, if I could only find a place to download Classic Vinyl and Classic Rewind types of tunes that don't compress the crap out of the signal.
I've been using Spotify since they launched and while the sound is not HD, the apps are easy to use. Since upgrading the speakers in my system I've wanted to experiment with higher bit rates and other encoding, so I used Amazon Music which has some very good HD audio in various formats. All the artists I listen to are there, but the app is terrible, putting songs in a playlist hardly works and the recommendations engine is bad, but the worst is all the bloated promos of artists I would never listen to, like Taylor Swift.

So, I switched to Tidal, which is cheaper, so far has all my artists and the HD quality is very good with various formats. The best part is that the app is easy to use, recommendations are very good and the app works fine in android auto.

I'm very happy with Tidal right now and I'm sure you could find just about any classic rewind/vinyl.
 

FL-RAM

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I just bought a ANC bypass cable in case I get droning when replacing the front door speakers this weekend. Simple plug and play.
Do you have a link? Does the bypass cable disable the ANC?
 
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MD Sledhead

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I don't recall when I first started using Sirius but I'm pretty certain that it sounded much better back then though.

IIRC, I started using it sometime in the '90s.

Year after year, the average sound quality has decayed but the dynamic quality range is now enormous.

I'm hesitant to put a number on it but roughly 50-70% of the content is fantastic (depending on the day and planet alignment) and the remainder varies from not too bad to complete crap.

I've tried comparing to OTA FM and sometimes XFM does sound much worse.

One of my concerns about the many complaints I've read about XFM is that people often discuss the sound quality as though it was an audio standard, that it always sounds exactly the same and that is furthest from being accurate.

Some of it sounds great which convinces me that my radio/speaker system is excellent and other times it's just horrid and makes me wonder if it's even worth $6/month.

Your rear speaker issue sounds more like a decryption problem than anything else. If the Sirius receiver is not reproducing the rear channel sounds, there's a decoding fault.

When the sound goes to compressed crap in my truck, it just sounds lifeless, and tinny, with no dynamic range, I still hear all the speakers, AFAIK.

When I hear the next XFM Crapfest song, I'll turn it up instead of channel hopping, and try to determine if I lose any channels.

.
OK... now that's some useful information "Your rear speaker issue sounds more like a decryption problem than anything else."
"When the sound goes to compressed crap in my truck it just sounds lifeless, tinny, with no dynamic range."
I experience BOTH of these ALL of the time. Often sounds like the drummer is beating on a metal trash can lid.
Even listening to Youtube Music it sounds as if it's "missing" something.

I've been saying this since November.

I also don't understand why my 2014 with XM sounded fantastic. I did notice some channels had more base (rock bar, hair nation) while others did not. But I never questioned the sound quality until I bought a 2024.

I really wonder if it has something to do with the XM receiver/decoder (as you put it) in the trucks that have 360L versus those that are purely satellite (Like the Big Horn I sat in).
 

skates15

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Do you have a link? Does the bypass cable disable the ANC?
Here you go. For 5th gen ram 1500 crew cab

Premium audio - HK or Alpine https://netaudio.com/product/2019-up-dodge-ram-premium-audio-anc-bypass-harness/

Base audio (non Alpine/HK) - https://netaudio.com/product/2019-up-dodge-ram-base-audio-anc-bypass-harness/

I went with this company to support a small business. I received the cable 4 days after ordering and they send you a tracking number.

They have good videos as well on Youtube.

Cable looks fine, I got the one for Alpine radio (premium).
 

FL-RAM

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Here you go. For 5th gen ram 1500 crew cab

Premium audio - HK or Alpine https://netaudio.com/product/2019-up-dodge-ram-premium-audio-anc-bypass-harness/

Base audio (non Alpine/HK) - https://netaudio.com/product/2019-up-dodge-ram-base-audio-anc-bypass-harness/

I went with this company to support a small business. I received the cable 4 days after ordering and they send you a tracking number.

They have good videos as well on Youtube.

Cable looks fine, I got the one for Alpine radio (premium).
Thank you. So it sounds like the bypass actually disables the ANC. I don't want to do that. This truck is so quiet I don't want to mess that up.
 

platoon2063

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Thank you. So it sounds like the bypass actually disables the ANC. I don't want to do that. This truck is so quiet I don't want to mess that up.
The truck is quiet for sure. However, the ANC is designed to reduce low frequency noise in the interior. You probably knew that. The reason people have noise issues when replacing front door speakers that emit lower frequency sound and when a subwoofer is added as well is because the ANC doesn't know the difference between road noise, engine rumble and audio frequencies below 120hz. I'm just guessing at that 120hz. I don't know that anyone has pin pointed the exact frequency of when the ANC becomes active.

Bottom line is; you want new front door speakers and subwoofer.......you disable the ANC! I don't hear much difference in sound in my truck since disabling the ANC unless I get on the accelerator and rev the rpm's up. Then it's just a short burst of sound that is not bothersome to me. I noticed very little if any increase in road noise.
 
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MD Sledhead

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Here's an update... I received a call from Ram today about my radio. The "Technical Engineering team is working on the problem and a new radio update will be coming." She couldn't give me a timeframe, but said I would get a notification on the radio when the update occurs.
They closed my STAR case yesterday.

So I'm really hoping this is legit, and not some ploy just to get rid of me.
 

FL-RAM

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The truck is quiet for sure. However, the ANC is designed to reduce low frequency noise in the interior. You probably knew that. The reason people have noise issues when replacing front door speakers that emit lower frequency sound and when a subwoofer is added as well is because the ANC doesn't know the difference between road noise, engine rumble and audio frequencies below 120hz. I'm just guessing at that 120hz. I don't know that anyone has pin pointed the exact frequency of when the ANC becomes active.

Bottom line is; you want new front door speakers and subwoofer.......you disable the ANC! I don't hear much difference in sound in my truck since disabling the ANC unless I get on the accelerator and rev the rpm's up. Then it's just a short burst of sound that is not bothersome to me. I noticed very little if any increase in road noise.
Correct. Basically, replacing the front door speakers makes the ANC go haywire and emit low frequencies, often described as a loud droning sound, at low speeds. Mine was particularly loud shifting between 3rd and 4th gear driving around the neighborhood. It actually hurt my ears. Putting the stock speakers back in fixed the problem. Replacing the rear door and dash speakers had no effect on the ANC and is well worth the investment.

The small improvement in stereo sound with the Infinity front door speakers was not worth disabling the ANC to me. I don't consider myself an audiophile, so I don't need an ultimate stereo setup.
 

FL-RAM

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Here's an update... I received a call from Ram today about my radio. The "Technical Engineering team is working on the problem and a new radio update will be coming." She couldn't give me a timeframe, but said I would get a notification on the radio when the update occurs.
They closed my STAR case yesterday.

So I'm really hoping this is legit, and not some ploy just to get rid of me.
Interesting. I assume that means everyone will be receiving a universal radio update soon. The Carplay is a well known problem with Ram.
 
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