2500 or 3500 for 5th Wheel Retirement Towing

[RMBO]

3500 Dually, Cummins HO with Aisin and air suspension. Got one...enjoy towing with it. It feels way more capable than my 2500 standard Cummins SRW short bed did with the same 5th attached. They both were 2022 Laramie's. I simply wasn't as confident or comfortable putting that much trailer behind a 2500 SRW short bed. With the 5th wheel pin weight as-towed along with passengers, I was considerably over rated payload for the 2500. Many will tell you that's a marketing CYA payload rating, but then I'm an engineer by trade and tend to have an insatiable desire for 'margin of safety'....so there's that. So I traded the 2500 with less than 1k miles for the 3500 HO. Fixed my margin 'issues'.

 

[2003F350]

I agree with the dual rear wheel. Much more stability against sway. Heaver payload, bigger brakes, etc.
We have a 43' 20K fifth wheel. Had an older F350DWR and it struggled. Upgraded in 2021 to a 5500 with a flatbed. It pulls fantastically. Didn't find the cost any different from the 3500.
A plus for the 4500-5500 is the wider front axle which gives a much tighter turning radius. Again bigger brakes and more payload, though oddly enough, less towing weight.
A negative we didn't count on is that anything over 3500 is consider a commercial vehicle by insurance companies so higher rates.
One big advantage to diesel is the engine brake, not sure gas has that.
It always makes me cringe when I see a huge fifth wheel being pulled by a single rear wheel, but that's just me.

The F450 is not ALWAYS considered commercial, and can be insured as a private/personal vehicle. Still higher rates, but not the commercial rates.

I think it is the only truck in that range that has that exception though. I may be wrong, I am not an insurance expert.

 

[2003F350]

Can't get the 4.10's with a gas engine, only the diesel. For this kind of towing, I would say diesel is the better option. As there's about $5K difference, do some homework on whether you need the high output or not. Get at least a handful of opinions on the dually / single wheel question, with guys that have more experience with similar trailers. I suspect they'll recommend the dually. Don't forget that after-market anti-sway bars front & rear are a big improvement, too.

Uh...yes you can get the 4.10's with the gas engine.

No argument that the diesel would be better suited for their needs, but the 6.4 IS available with 4.10's.

 

[JKLines]

With putting retirement criteria on there, I will make assumption that most of the time you are talking about a fifth wheel for two people. So, first let me share my experience. I started camping with old 35' Prevost, then traded it in for 37' Cedar Creek. We have regretted getting something that big for just the two of us. Our initial thoughts were places for kids or grandkids to sleep ... rarely happens and when does we find it less enjoyable when kids are staying in RV. Most campgrounds have cabins for rent ... or carry tent & sleeping bags so everyone can have own space. Some campgrounds have restrictions regarding length or it can cut down on selection of available campsites due to length. So we are wanting to downsize. Approach we are taking is we have made list of things we definitely like and want to have and focus on it is for two of us traveling. Then get shortest 5th wheel that has the quality and features we want. Also, newer 5th wheels have front ends that are short bed friendly without slider hitch so ask about that. Slider hitches make truck beds virtually useless for anything else since they are too heavy to remove without a lot of effort and hitch basically takes all the prime space in the bed. On top of that they cost about twice what any other hitch costs. I had a slider hitch initially on my 2016 2500 and when I ordered new truck switched to Reese Goose Box on trailer and love it. This allows me to easily free up my bed while on the road when needed by simply removing hitch ball. But if I were to do over again, I would get Gen Y Executive Torsion Flex to reduce needing to keep air bag properly inflated. I would also look at MORryde IS suspension system and disk brakes. The smoother your 5th wheel rides, the better it handles and also saves on things getting broken going down the road. This option comes on some newer 5th wheels or can be ordered if ordering 5th wheel. Can also be installed after purchase by MORryde.
Also, plan for cameras on your 5th wheel. No matter what, at least opt for the rear view trailer camera option. Everyone loves how my rear view mirror displays image behind 5th wheel when it is attached and it is much more reliable than wireless cameras. Had one instance with old wireless where lost signal and when that happens video continues to show last frame. Checking side view mirror, car that was showing on rear view camera was actually beside me taught me to have no reliance on the wireless camera. Hard wired camera is simply much better. This is simple install for most part since it is a single cable that goes to back of 5th wheel and then morning camera. I mounted mine about two feet above bumper and was able to fish wire to belly.
Trailer surround video is also a RAM option that is also offered by GM and others. I was able to get cameras added to my Cedar Creek ... but when talking to new RV dealers about installing, they claim the way exterior walls are now designed, adding wiring to walls after manufacture is extremely difficult and some RV dealers will tell you they won't do it ... so if you are considering that option ... keep that in mind. At some point RV manufacturers might offer prewired for surround video like most prewire for solar. The option is a bit expensive so if you can't get installed on 5th wheel you decide on you might want to save money and not order it.
Gas vs Diesel ... go Diesel for towing ... gassers for the drag strip .
2500 vs 3500. Like I said, I had 2016 2500 Cummins and loved it. Towed Cedar Creek 75+ through Nebraska and Kansas just fine (I live around Saint Louis, son lives in Cheyenne, Wyoming and brother lives in Colorado Springs). Ride in the 2500 was a little rough at times, but wife with her back surgeries found it acceptable. That truck got t-boned by a young lady on a cell phone so ordered a 2022 3500 with HO engine and all the towing options. I do notice the difference towing with the HO engine when it comes to mountains. I also like that it changes transmission to Aisin transmission. If not considering HO engine, I would go with 2500 ... same engine, less weight, smoother ride. Note: my wife will not ride in my 3500 unless she has to and complains about rough ride every time she rides in it ... again, she has back issues so I understand.
Short bed vs long bed ... single vs dual ... my view is short bed standard. This becomes main transportation for touring and shopping while RVing and is enough of a tank. I definitely don't want anything that makes it bigger ... as a matter of fact, I really don't like that the newer ones are so much more off the ground than they were 10-15 years ago. I'm just towing stuff down the road, not 4 wheeling so I don't need all that ground clearance. Stability on the road is also governed by suspension on trailer. With suspension I have on my trailer, I have no issues with sway and have been in some pretty bad crosswinds and have not had any issues.
That pretty well covers my experience ... hope it helps.

 

[man n black]

All day long get the Cummins...The exhaust brake and integrated trailer brake alone will be worth the peace of mind.

Something no one has considered here..OP said he wanted to visit National Parks....If this is the case I would reconsider on trailer length and likely go shorter. In MOST National Park campground you will not get a 43 footer (plus tow vehicle) into those spots.

Further, with a rig that size, unless your preplanning is spot on...when you guys are in transit to your next destination you will likely be overnighting in truck stops or very near freeways. With dogs, kids and such this can sometimes be daunting and stressful.

Given the above scenarios I would propose another option for the OP, however there is a caveat:

Admittedly..IDK much about the 1500s..but the 2500s (at least mine) has the ability to completely disengage the drivetrain making flat towing very easy.

If this is possible with the 1500 and having had my experiences towing a TT versus now travelling via Motorcoach; all day I'd be looking into diesel engined based RV's.

For about the same price as a new 3/4 or 1 ton truck and large nice 5th wheel you can find nice diesel based RV's. 40ft or shorter gets you into most NP campgrounds. They are "more" self contained than a trailer, have much more storage for full time living and they are engineered for the weight. No transitioning from truck to trailer for meals, rests or overnights. Unlike a trailer you can DC the towed vehicle and get to your campsite, set up all the comforts of home as your base station (BLM boondocking anyone?) and keep the smooth riding 1500 for daily activities.

So you keep all the good stuff you like about your 1500 and get the luxury - liveability of the 5th wheel. As an added bonus, you still get the use of the bed of your truck (bikes, paddleboards etc).

YMMV;
Ch

 

[Ratman6161]

Mine is a 2019 2500 with 6.4 and 4.10 rear. My fifth wheel is 36’ and 14K pounds empty. Pulls great. On long steep grades it shifts down to 5th and revs to 4500 but holds speed. I don’t think I have need for more truck.

Maybe you dont. On the other hand, if you didn't already own the truck, and were looking to buy one, I'd say 3500 for sure for that load. My 2022 Laramie 2500 w/6.4 has a payload of 2939. Op said he is looking at fifth wheels with 2500# loaded hitch weight. On my truck, add a 200# hitch and I'd have 239# payload left. I w e igh 175 so I'd have to leave my wife home.

A truck same as mine with a diesel only has a pay.oad of 2100 ish.

 

[NCRaineman]

With the 5th wheel pin weight as-towed along with passengers, I was considerably over rated payload for the 2500.

This. This this this. It's not just the weight of the trailer, but all the people and gear you are carrying in the truck too, and you want a comfortable safety margin. A 2500 with 5th wheel equipment, a full tank of fuel, four adults and all their accessories... you're going to be overweight.

 

[18CrewDually]

This. This this this. It's not just the weight of the trailer, but all the people and gear you are carrying in the truck too, and you want a comfortable safety margin. A 2500 with 5th wheel equipment, a full tank of fuel, four adults and all their accessories... you're going to be overweight.

FYI: Full tank off fuel is already calculated into the GVWR. So technically if one was 120 pounds over they could run 16 gallons less of fuel and be legal.
Not disagreeing with you, just sharing knowledge.

 

[Jbinramona]

2016 3500 Laramie 4x4 dually long bed, 6.7 HO Cummins, Aisen transmission, 410 rear end, every option BUT the snow plow. Our 2nd 5th wheel is a 2020 Jayco Seismic. Just shy of 33,000lbs rolling down the road.
We’ve been full timing for over a year now. This truck is AWESOME.
We have driven in rain, wind, over some of the biggest passes in the western states, in the dessert, plains, dirt road, crappy paved roads, you name it we have driven on it. The truck just keeps on pullin’!!!
If you do not get the 8’ box you limit your turning ability due to the danger of the trailer hitting the cab in a 90 degree turn. I have had to make this type of turn a couple times. You sometimes just cannot predict or avoid it.
I am a retired truck driver. Not to insult anyone or discount their OPINION, but ask a truck driver about percentage of rated load capacity and your either gonna get a deer in the headlights look or a massive belly laugh. Professional truck drivers load to the maximum weight every day. Trucks are speced to pull/carry a load. The manufacturer tells you what that is. Believe it or buy a Semi rated for way more than you need and stop worrying! Thats my OPINION and experience. Good Luck in whatever choices you make, and enjoy the lifestyle!!!

 

[StNick]

If I were to buy a truck to use as you said, it would have to be a Diesel (I wouldn't own a gas truck) but then as a retired truck driver I know how to drive a Diesel. Too bad all that you can buy is an automatic transmission (I believe automatics in a diesel truck are for folks that don't know how to drive a diesel!). A diesel gives you much more torque, especially at lower RPM. And diesels are less prone to overheating. They are made for just your application.