5th Gen Transmission DEAD

[Octane]

For anything to be legally required to be called made in USA it has to have 75% of its parts made here. 25% of the parts can still be sourced from overseas

 

[Octane]

No, did you check? They are not. In the USA and maybe Germany.

The point is most things are having parts come from China. Down to the smallest seal.Domestic vehicles are sourced from many countries tho, and are subject to their issues there.

 

[Rayzaa]

For anything to be legally required to be called made in USA it has to have 75% of its parts made here. 25% of the parts can still be sourced from overseas

ok, NOT what im saying. Google search says They are built in Indiana and Germany. Not China.The window sticker on some may even say Germany.

 

[Octane]

ok, NOT what im saying. Google search says They are built in Indiana and Germany. Not China.

Understand what you're saying. Germany of course cant have issues....and we know also that all parts that Germany would use would be made in Germany...

 

[Rayzaa]

Understand what you're saying. Germany of course cant have issues....

I know what im saying. Im disputing China.

 

[Octane]

I know what im saying. Im disputing China.

I see that...the point I guess I'm making, is that just because a tranny is listed as made in china, or made in germany or anywhere else, doesnt mean that it will not contain some parts from many other countries. And be affected by supply issues. Virtually nothing is made from parts made only in one country. I was involved with brake systems at TRW automotive, the castings were made in Tennessee, the parts were sourced from China, the completed part was considered Made in USA. It was "mostly" Made in USA. Lol. I am aware of China issues and they may not be involved in any of the trannies made in Mexico. But in many many cases, a factory no matter where their thing is actually made, it uses parts from many other places. Maybe even China.
I remember having a Chevy truck once, engine made in Mexico, tranny the U. S. Tranny mounts made in Israel or Korea. Clutch from France.
We certainly dont drive "domestic made" vehicles do we? Lol...

 

[Rayzaa]

I see that...the point I guess I'm making, is that just because a tranny is listed as made in china, or made in germany or anywhere else, doesnt mean that it will not contain some parts from many other countries. And be affected by supply issues. Virtually nothing is made from parts made only in one country. I was involved with brake systems at TRW automotive, the castings were made in Tennessee, the parts were sourced from China, the completed part was considered Made in USA. It was "mostly" Made in USA. Lol. I am aware of China issues and they may not be involved in any of the trannies made in Mexico. But in many many cases, a factory no matter where their thing is actually made, it uses parts from many other places. Maybe even China.
I remember having a Chevy truck once, engine made in Mexico, tranny the U. S. Tranny mounts made in Israel or Korea. Clutch from France.
We certainly dont drive "domestic made" vehicles do we? Lol...

I know that, i used to work at a Toyota dealer. They state what % of their parts are in the vehicle on the sticker. They only have 2 that are 100% made in Japan. The 4Runner and Prius. Camry and Tacoma are mostly USA parts @ least 75%. Engine and tranny is from Japan.

No we dont actually have USA built cars/trucks. They may be assembled in the USA....some of them. My Ram was but i know some are assembled in Mexico.

Its why i dont really care about the buy American vs Import debate. I just know id never own a BMW or Land/Range Rover. Expensive junk is all they are.

 

[Octane]

@Rayzaa I agree. I remember the commercials back from years ago even they would say buy American buy American! But the domestic makers blurred the lines so bad with using foreign parts, that even buying American cars, they were not really American cars. So many folks said "screw it" and started buying foreign. Then when the domestic makers had a hard time competing, they just made their cars look like foreign cars mostly so they would sell.

 

[Doug Ram]

Ram transmissions are not built in China

True, they are not ASSEMBLED in China. All it takes is one part that no longer comes from China (or anywhere else yet), and that transmission can't be assembled. Anywhere.

 

[Doug Ram]

No, did you check? They are not. In the USA and Germany.

How do you know that NO parts are made in China? Odds are, based on where I worked for 35 years, that some upstream part is made there. It would be a very rare item that doesn't have something that came from there. A chip, a plastic connector, a screw. Odds are something does.

This is what has got our military scared to death.

 

[Octane]

True, they are not ASSEMBLED in China. All it takes is one part that no longer comes from China (or anywhere else yet), and that transmission can't be assembled. Anywhere.

China, Japan and others really protect their markets from foreign competition. Not much of a free and open market in some countries

 

[Doug Ram]

I hate to interject again, but I got to for my own sanity.

I worked 35 years for the Navy and at another government agency (US Department of Commerce) that did "value add" analysis of whole industries. The data was used to estimate the trade deficit and GNP, among other things.

Anyway, about 15 years ago we got sucked into resolving a political fight over fasteners in the automotive, aerospace and marine industries that supported the military. The bolts used in high torque and/or horsepower engines were breaking. We were hired to find out what was going on. We suspected certification fraud somewhere in the supply chain, so we had to trace the chain back to who made the part. You'd think this would be a simple question.... just ask the manufacturer who supplied the fastener, but we found they didn't really know. We found that company engineers spec'd out their requirements, sometimes working directly with suppliers on a complex item, but usually a team of buyers would find parts on the open market, and often bid it out. These assembly suppliers then often do the same, buying sub components as well as screws and nuts and bolts from yet another distributor or yet another company. And so on.

It was nuts. Our engineers and auditors found that the actual company that was making the critical parts that were failing could be 2 to 15 steps removed from the final product. It turned out that a whole host of components that were supposedly US made were merely assembled in the USA, but were composed of from parts from everywhere.

There is still a group in Commerce that enforces the rules about what can be labeled Made in America vs merely Assembled in America (of foreign and domestic parts). It is much easier to meet the Assembled standard.

And companies still try to outsmart the fastener certification process... resulting in so many recalls even today.

 

[Octane]

I hate to interject again, but I got to for my own sanity.

I worked 35 years for the Navy and at another government agency (US Department of Commerce) that did "value add" analysis of whole industries. The data was used to estimate the trade deficit and GNP, among other things.

Anyway, about 15 years ago we got sucked into resolving a political fight over fasteners in the automotive, aerospace and marine industries that supported the military. The bolts used in high torque and/or horsepower engines were breaking. We were hired to find out what was going on. We suspected certification fraud somewhere in the supply chain, so we had to trace the chain back to who made the part. You'd think this would be a simple question.... just ask the manufacturer who supplied the fastener, but we found they didn't really know. We found that company engineers spec'd out their requirements, sometimes working directly with suppliers on a complex item, but usually a team of buyers would find parts on the open market, and often bid it out. These assembly suppliers then often do the same, buying sub components as well as screws and nuts and bolts from yet another distributor or yet another company. And so on.

It was nuts. Our engineers and auditors found that the actual company that was making the critical parts that were failing could be 2 to 15 steps removed from the final product. It turned out that a whole host of components that were supposedly US made were merely assembled in the USA, but were composed of from parts from everywhere.

There is still a group in Commerce that enforces the rules about what can be labeled Made in America vs merely Assembled in America (of foreign and domestic parts). It is much easier to meet the Assembled standard.

And companies still try to outsmart the fastener certification process... resulting in so many recalls even today.

Absolutely true. The vast majority of consumers have an extremely limited knowledge of what they are actually buying,sad, really. The manufacturers sell their souls on the altar of saving a tenth of a cent.And there are many sacrifices made related to this, as it affects quality, safety etc. And they miss the mark many times.

 

[Yardbird]

I will add this...

My son is in charge of world wide procurement of parts for his company to build components for the US auto industry. Many parts are from China, but some are from the US. He says many times the US made parts are worse than the China, Tiwan, ect, parts.

Right now they are having a very hard time getting parts to build anything. The auto makers are so desperate for their components they are allowing pretty much any part that will work in their units, whether it meets specifications or not. The auto makers are figuring it's better to have something to sell than not, and hoping the parts make it past warranty.

 

[Juice17]

My trans went out at 40,000 on my 2019. Dealer gave me a loaner jeep and said drive it wherever you need to go. 2 weeks later I had a new transmission and my truck back

 

[Octane]

My 2013 has approx 195k on it now. Maybe I need to trade it before the tranny and engine goes out. nah! If it does I'll just drive my 40+ yo Chevy truck... takes a lickin' keeps on tickin' lol

 

[Juice17]

My 2019 big horn trans went bad at 40,000. Dealer had me a loaner that day and I had truck back in two weeks new transmission. I now have 57000 on truck

 

[Octane]

My 2019 big horn trans went bad at 40,000. Dealer had me a loaner that day and I had truck back in two weeks new transmission. I now have 57000 on truck

I've heard the 2019s were more problematic

 

[TimboRam77]

Had a 2019 limited that was a fail. Ram took great care of it so I tried again with a 21. It's been a great truck so far.

 

[BlackSheepRebel]

Disclaimer... I am not defending anyone. This is just my opinion.

It's definitely an unfortunate situation you're dealing. Unfortunately I think it's like that pretty much everywhere because of the current situation in this country and world. Staff and supplies are a very hot commodity but are also very limited so maybe they can't tie things up for long periods of time. They just may not have a loaner available to tie up that long. Unfortunately we have to deal with the ramifications of what's happening. Good luck and I hope you get everything straightened out

Agreed on all points. It’s a crazy world. The irony is it got so crazy because of “leadership” decisions, short-sighted globalization, etc. It didn’t just happen because of one event, it was a long series of cost/profit optimizations where the people making the decisions are richer than ever and the rest of us are stuck holding the bag.

I always have to chuckle (to avoid crying) a bit in situations like this. “Despite what the contract says, there’s nothing we can do…” Try that as a peon and you will be bankrupt, in jail, or both due to breach of contract. The rest of us can’t afford an army of lawyers.

Good points here I can verify through personal experience… no matter where you go you will encounter similar shortages, questionable build quality, cheaper materials despite paying more than ever, cutting corners, ****** sales and “service” that you always have to double check. It’s happened to me with GM, Dodge, Nissan and Toyota. If it is any consolation, going back in time and buying something else probably wouldn’t have helped much. Good luck, hope you get it resolved soon and can go back to enjoying life!