5th Wheel Towing With 2500 6.7

[Billet Bee]

before I say anything, I’m not looking for a discussion but a rant As a CDL holder I never understood the payload issue when it comes to GCRW and axle ratings. Most tractor trailers have an allowance of 12k steer, 34k drives and 34k trailers To give you your 80k gcrw in the states. So if your truck has 6k steer 6500 rear and your gcrw is xxxxx. Then your should be able to scale as such to get to your gcrw. As a CDL holder, I can just buy a weight sticker for the side of a truck and legally scale that weight even if I’m over payload on my truck…stupid laws for sure but end of rant

I agrre with yah brother. Drove commercial for decades. All that dot or insurance care about is gawr and gcwr that's why I don't fuss about that stupid pl number and just watch my axles

 

[Billet Bee]

All I ever worried about was my tire load range rating. I could register my truck and trailer for the tire load rating - I just paid more $$$. As long as I don’t go over that - I ain’t worried. I put air bags on and let it eat. I had over 1.000,000 miles running oil field hot shot all over the country and not once did I have a problem.

But I do recommend 99% of people strictly adhere to the manufacturer’s recommendations. Cause I’ve seen how most of y’all drive.

Cheers to that

 

[Billet Bee]

Considering you have a diesel you need to look at the numbers. Diesel has a lower number then gas.

Here is what I see - people are clueless as to the true weights they are towing.

Just because we have differences of opinion doesn't mean anyone inparticular is clueless about there true weights. I would agree that most weekend warriors probably don't pay there weights much attention but most of us seasoned veterans who tow frequently know there's down to the lb, I know I do. Plus anyone looking at purchasing a truck knows that a diesel is heavier then a gasser which results in a lower pl number .
Stay under the axle capacities and drive safe and enjoy the journey

 

[runamuck]

deleted

 

[runamuck]

Wow, now that's a light fiver, can't say I've ever seen one way so little. He could of easily done that with a 1500

no way. the pin wt. is over 1500#. my 1500 only has 1324# cargo capacity. I bet the towing wt. is probably more than 8400# too.

 

[Billet Bee]

no way. the pin wt. is over 1500#. my 1500 only has 1324# cargo capacity. I bet the towing wt. is probably more than

aren't these newer 1500s today able to tow like 12,000lbs

 

[dhay13]

My step-son has a 2020 Tundra with GRAWR of 4100 or 4150. He weighed his 2021 Grand Design Imagine 3250BH and it weighed 9300lbs with 1100lbs tongue weight. He was over his GRAWR by 150lbs and that was with a bumper pull. Pretty sure a 1500lb pin weight 5'er would be even heavier on the rear axle and the 1500 Ram only has 3900lb GRAWR I think. And the TT was brand new and completely empty other than the 53 gallons of water the dealer left in the tank. Even with that empty he would still be pushing that GRAWR, especially if it would have been loaded up for a trip

 

[runamuck]

one of my nephews pulled his 32' bunkhouse travel trailer with '16 Tundra and the truck bed was packed with firewood and coolers full of drinks and I remember that we were all amazed when they pulled up at the campsite. I know he was way over on every measure but he always said it pulled fine but sucked gas and had a small tank.

 

[MN2500]

My 2021 2500 Laramie has a GVWR of 10,000 and a GCVWR of 27,980 and a payload of 2,044. Our TT, 2020 Keystone Hideout 232LHS has a GVWR of 7,610 and a hitch weight of 610. We're under by quite a bit on everything.

 

[Nibenza]

Hey guys, new here and also want to make sure I'm good with the fiver I'm looking to buy. I just bought a 2022 2500 6.7 and also am used to towing my TT. I still don't have understanding all these weights down. Due to various issues I am now selling the TT and getting a 5er. My Max payload on the dodge 2,140# and the hitch weight of the new 5 is 1995#. My first question of many is that enough extra to not worry or should I be looking at a lighter hitch weight? All the other weights seem to leave plenty of room to breathe. Any help for a new old guy would be much appreciated. Also I'm not trying to hijacking a thread here, the issues just seemed similar so thought I'd jump in instead of starting a new thread.

 

[tron67j]

This post will certainly pull some nasty responses and that is fine, gotta' call out a couple bad responses. Those claiming to be "professional" truck drivers but then espouse the benefits of ignoring vehicle-specific capacity numbers do a disservice to their profession. When someone asks for help understanding the capabilities of their truck, it is just plain wrong to immediately talk about how you ignore one of the critical capacity values and do what you want, so it is okay for everyone to just guess at what their truck can safely do.

The GVW will possibly never equal front and rear combined axle ratings for multiple reasons. Why don't they; front is maybe able to handle a heavy plow, and rear can handle large load of material, but possibly not at the same time. If you aren't the engineer that rated the truck, you don't know if one critical component was designed just to closely meet (not wildly exceed) the GVW/GVWR values and may contribute to catastrophic failure when exceeding truck design.

If I followed some advice here and were to just go by the combined axle weights I could carry 20% (1 ton) more than my stated GVW and that would be just plain stupid crazy to even think is safe. But if I did follow that "professional" advice and only considered half of that found payload capacity, my 2500 3k payload goes to 4k and math of a 15% pin weight of a 5th wheel allows me to tow a 27k pound trailer, which puts me at 39k pounds gcwr - but that's okay because I haven't exceeded either gross axle weight. And before someone (rightly) calls out that I have exceeded my stated GCWR as found on the Ram website, that number doesn't matter if all I care about is my combined gross axle weights. Imagine if I calculate and pull a trailer using the full 1 ton of found payload capacity!

For original poster and others who want to use the vehicle as designed, follow the data on your door jamb (not charts) and ignore statements like "if you tow once or twice a year, go ahead and tow too much" and "I routinely tow way over my limit and haven't killed anyone yet". What matters is what you do and how your decision may impact some unsuspecting family.

 

[tron67j]

Hey guys, new here and also want to make sure I'm good with the fiver I'm looking to buy. I just bought a 2022 2500 6.7 and also am used to towing my TT. I still don't have understanding all these weights down. Due to various issues I am now selling the TT and getting a 5er. My Max payload on the dodge 2,140# and the hitch weight of the new 5 is 1995#. My first question of many is that enough extra to not worry or should I be looking at a lighter hitch weight? All the other weights seem to leave plenty of room to breathe. Any help for a new old guy would be much appreciated. Also I'm not trying to hijacking a thread here, the issues just seemed similar so thought I'd jump in instead of starting a new thread.

If your payload capacity on your door is 2140, you're not going to be okay for a pin weight of 1,995. Your payload needs to also take into account the passengers, gear, hitch, etc. in your truck. Also be aware the rated pin weight may or may not be actual once you factor in gear in trailer plus accessories added that weren't part of the rated trailer, like if the dealer added some items at their lot.

Best thing to do is load up your truck like you are traveling including hitch and people. Then go weigh full vehicle and subtract that number from GVW number on your door jamb. Then you know the actual remaining payload capacity and purchase a trailer accordingly.

Good luck

 

[dhay13]

one of my nephews pulled his 32' bunkhouse travel trailer with '16 Tundra and the truck bed was packed with firewood and coolers full of drinks and I remember that we were all amazed when they pulled up at the campsite. I know he was way over on every measure but he always said it pulled fine but sucked gas and had a small tank.

He only towed his a few times with his Tundra. He sold the TT a couple months ago. His trans temp came on when moving the TT around the campground. Just too much weight for that truck. It was rated to tow 9800 and his TT weighed 9300 but like said, trans temp warning came on and he was 150lbs over GRAWR.

Here is his CAT scale slip. He didn't get an empty truck weight but we did get the tongue weight from when I towed it and that was 1100lbs

 

[Nibenza]

I don't have my truck yet, I was given this from the dealer.


I did run my VIN on Ram's site and the numbers came up pretty much the same.

The trailer numbers are

Dry Hitch Weight (lbs)1,995
Unloaded Vehicle Weight (lbs)10,580
Cargo Carrying Capacity (lbs)2,120
Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (lbs)12,700
Gross Combined Weight Rating (lbs)15,700

I was hoping to have the trailer bought when I pick up my truck in a couple of weeks, I have a job I'm traveling to.

I guess I need to find a lighter trailer. Thanks for the heads up. I'm just trying to get the biggest trailer I can tow comfortably although it's more a destination trailer, I won't be moving it much I still want to be within legal weights. We are going to be living in it for a couple of years and momma needs her room.

Again thanks for the insight

 

[Nibenza]

Of course the trailer dealer ran a couple of numbers and said oh ya no problem towing that with your new truck. Typical dealer bs.

 

[Billet Bee]

This post will certainly pull some nasty responses and that is fine, gotta' call out a couple bad responses. Those claiming to be "professional" truck drivers but then espouse the benefits of ignoring vehicle-specific capacity numbers do a disservice to their profession. When someone asks for help understanding the capabilities of their truck, it is just plain wrong to immediately talk about how you ignore one of the critical capacity values and do what you want, so it is okay for everyone to just guess at what their truck can safely do.

The GVW will possibly never equal front and rear combined axle ratings for multiple reasons. Why don't they; front is maybe able to handle a heavy plow, and rear can handle large load of material, but possibly not at the same time. If you aren't the engineer that rated the truck, you don't know if one critical component was designed just to closely meet (not wildly exceed) the GVW/GVWR values and may contribute to catastrophic failure when exceeding truck design.

If I followed some advice here and were to just go by the combined axle weights I could carry 20% (1 ton) more than my stated GVW and that would be just plain stupid crazy to even think is safe. But if I did follow that "professional" advice and only considered half of that found payload capacity, my 2500 3k payload goes to 4k and math of a 15% pin weight of a 5th wheel allows me to tow a 27k pound trailer, which puts me at 39k pounds gcwr - but that's okay because I haven't exceeded either gross axle weight. And before someone (rightly) calls out that I have exceeded my stated GCWR as found on the Ram website, that number doesn't matter if all I care about is my combined gross axle weights. Imagine if I calculate and pull a trailer using the full 1 ton of found payload capacity!

For original poster and others who want to use the vehicle as designed, follow the data on your door jamb (not charts) and ignore statements like "if you tow once or twice a year, go ahead and tow too much" and "I routinely tow way over my limit and haven't killed anyone yet". What matters is what you do and how your decision may impact some unsuspecting family.

I'm not sure what your f&rawr are or your gvwr & gcwr, maybe you can post those so we can see were your getting these figures? Fiver pin weight is normally between 20-22% (not 15%)which would bring your hypothetical 27k trailer Down to Between 18-20k for that vehicle to be Completely maxed out. I don't think anyone here said it was ok to to operate at all maxed out capacities or throw caution to The wind . Its up to the driver to do what he/ she feels comfortable. If you understands how the laws and insurance work then you might lean more toward the aggressive side, if you want to stay below the posted sticker so you can safely haul with all your rv tanks full then your going to be well on the conservative side. The points being made are to show that these newer trucks of today are underrated based on the're capabilities with all things into consideration. So if your with in a few hundred lbs of your posted pl sticker then you shouldn't sweat it if your other numbers look good. The pl number is a made up number based on the vehicles gvwr. The gvwr is set by the auto manufacturer which most of us hd aficionados know is set a bit below the vehicles max capacity . Also in some states ( where i reside ) you can get your gvwr changed on your registration to have a higher legal sticker. If gvw and pl were so important to safety and the vehicles integrity on public road ways then why do dot officers check only your axle weights the majority of the times, why do insurance filers go by the police reports axle ratings. If your analogy is correct and everyone followed there door stickers then there would never be another f450 sold again because there pl is about 1000lbs less then a 3500. These are all factors that need to be made by the driver with there own considerations in mind like experience, amount of times hauling trailer, how much people and stuff will you be hauling.
I stick by my initial endorsement of hauling a 13k empty fiver Is safe and appropriate for today's 2500s since there rated for around 17k trailer based on your trim level. If around 15-15.5k loaded you start to sag then add air bags to help level and enjoy the rv trip.

 

[Nibenza]

Thanks a lot Bee, I think I understand now.

 

[tron67j]

I'm not sure what your f&rawr are or your gvwr & gcwr, maybe you can post those so we can see were your getting these figures? Fiver pin weight is normally between 20-22% (not 15%)which would bring your hypothetical 27k trailer Down to Between 18-20k for that vehicle to be Completely maxed out. I don't think anyone here said it was ok to to operate at all maxed out capacities or throw caution to The wind . Its up to the driver to do what he/ she feels comfortable. If you understands how the laws and insurance work then you might lean more toward the aggressive side, if you want to stay below the posted sticker so you can safely haul with all your rv tanks full then your going to be well on the conservative side. The points being made are to show that these newer trucks of today are underrated based on the're capabilities with all things into consideration. So if your with in a few hundred lbs of your posted pl sticker then you shouldn't sweat it if your other numbers look good. The pl number is a made up number based on the vehicles gvwr. The gvwr is set by the auto manufacturer which most of us hd aficionados know is set a bit below the vehicles max capacity . Also in some states ( where i reside ) you can get your gvwr changed on your registration to have a higher legal sticker. If gvw and pl were so important to safety and the vehicles integrity on public road ways then why do dot officers check only your axle weights the majority of the times, why do insurance filers go by the police reports axle ratings. If your analogy is correct and everyone followed there door stickers then there would never be another f450 sold again because there pl is about 1000lbs less then a 3500. These are all factors that need to be made by the driver with there own considerations in mind like experience, amount of times hauling trailer, how much people and stuff will you be hauling.
I stick by my initial endorsement of hauling a 13k empty fiver Is safe and appropriate for today's 2500s since there rated for around 17k trailer based on your trim level. If around 15-15.5k loaded you start to sag then add air bags to help level and enjoy the rv trip.

What numbers do you want me to post, they don't really matter now, do they? I can use my 12k of combined axle weight, and end up with a payload capacity of 5k. So with a 20% pin, I can tow a 25k trailer. Wait, aren't axle weights also made up? I should be able to tow a 35k pound trailer. And tire data are also made up so get a cheaper tire and buy better beer!

Do you see, it never ends! It doesn't matter what you can do with a state DMV (oh, how governments are good when they serve a need), buy the right tool for the job.

If someone wants a nice 5th, get a dually 3500 or bigger and enjoy the ride, even if 2x a year max towing. Use the numbers on the door jamb and know you are safe. Don't stand there at the scene of the accident and say "I was told this was okay". That's my point.

Telling people who want to learn that ignoring data for the truck is fine is going to be followed by someone else yelling "Hey y'all, watch this fool".

 

[Billet Bee]

What numbers do you want me to post, they don't really matter now, do they? I can use my 12k of combined axle weight, and end up with a payload capacity of 5k. So with a 20% pin, I can tow a 25k trailer. Wait, aren't axle weights also made up? I should be able to tow a 35k pound trailer. And tire data are also made up so get a cheaper tire and buy better beer!

Do you see, it never ends! It doesn't matter what you can do with a state DMV (oh, how governments are good when they serve a need), buy the right tool for the job.

If someone wants a nice 5th, get a dually 3500 or bigger and enjoy the ride, even if 2x a year max towing. Use the numbers on the door jamb and know you are safe. Don't stand there at the scene of the accident and say "I was told this was okay". That's my point.

Telling people who want to learn that ignoring data for the truck is fine is going to be followed by someone else yelling "Hey y'all, watch this fool".

The axle manufacturer sets the axle ratings not the auto manufacturers which are who post the sticker on the door.
The tire manufacturers set the tire specs not the auto manufacturers. The axle and tire manufacturer's post there capabilities based on what the product can safely handle in its maximum capacity, where the auto manufacturer is all about marketing class, under 10,000lbs, over 10k, 12k, 14k, 16k etc. The perfect example is the f450, why is its gvwr rated at only 14k like its 3500 counter part, simply because ford wants the highest numbers in its 14k weight class. They sure as heck don't want the lowest numbers in the 16k weight class as that wouldn't get very many sales. So yes the auto manufacturers do make up there numbers which are allot of the time grossly under rated to stay within a certain weight class as compared to each products capability which is out for maximum capability competion. Everyone can do as they may but in my opinion its ridiculous to buy a drw 3500 that don't turn and gets lousy fuel mileage and rides rough to tow a 15k fiver a few times a yr when you can get a 2500 that rated for a 17k fiver and rides much better, gets way better fuel mileage and it can get around like a car and it don't beat you to death. You may have to add air bags , if need be but thats it, Now if money is no factor then buy a 3500 but thats not what you need it's what you want and the op wants to know what is needed. I agree nobody should do something based on what another person said was ok to do, everyone needs to do there own research and make there final decision to do what they feel is the right thing to do. Besides driving commercial for decades I also managed a fleet of 100 and we had some young and wild drivers operating in a highly congested area and I had to become the accident investigator and reporter for 3 years which involved working with local, dot, and insurance company's. I've dealt with so many accidents in 3 years it's ridiculous. Whenever there was a accident bad enough that required the knowledge of the vehicle weight ( which was extremlly rare), all that was ever wanted was the axle weights and the gcw if a Trailer was hooked up or axle weights and gvw if truck alone.. Everyone has there Own interpretation of the law and what actually happens out there on the rd and of coarse there own comfort level of operating. So make your own best decision on how you understand all things combined and travel safely.

 

[JNelson]

Don’t worry about the mule. Just load the wagon.