65RFE unlocking tcc after 6 - 5 shift

[NickSteel]

hi all, so i managed to fix all my other issues with this trans and now it’s all good aside from this one issue i don’t know is normal or not, and that’s the fact that when the truck is coasting down from 60 to 50 with no throttle input, the truck shifts fine into 5th no issues. with slight throttle input, sometimes it shifts fine, keeps the converter locked and it doesn’t unlock and make the engine go crazy, and most of the time it just unlocks fully and the engine revs up to 2K (doesn’t go past this) for around 2-3 seconds and then it locks back up and goes into 5th.

i’ve also noticed that it does this in 4th too using the manual gears, for instance, at a constant speed of 55MPH and in 6th gear coasting, shifting it into 5th will result in the trans shifting, and then dropping around 200RPM with no change in throttle input, same goes for when going from 5-4. 4-3, 3-2 and 2-1 don’t slip at all, which is why i’m guessing it’s the PCM ordering a TCC unlock condition.

i’ve dropped the pan, no metal anywhere. i replaced the solenoid pack, no change. i replaced the vb with no change either.

the truck also shifts very very softly when heated up fully occasionally, and after the engine is cranked up while it’s still warm, the trans will bang into gear for the first few shifts, then even itself out. almost like the trans doesn’t know what fluid pressure to operate at.


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[Fast69Mopar]

hi all, so i managed to fix all my other issues with this trans and now it’s all good aside from this one issue i don’t know is normal or not, and that’s the fact that when the truck is coasting down from 60 to 50 with no throttle input, the truck shifts fine into 5th no issues. with slight throttle input, sometimes it shifts fine, keeps the converter locked and it doesn’t unlock and make the engine go crazy, and most of the time it just unlocks fully and the engine revs up to 2K (doesn’t go past this) for around 2-3 seconds and then it locks back up and goes into 5th.

i’ve also noticed that it does this in 4th too using the manual gears, for instance, at a constant speed of 55MPH and in 6th gear coasting, shifting it into 5th will result in the trans shifting, and then dropping around 200RPM with no change in throttle input, same goes for when going from 5-4. 4-3, 3-2 and 2-1 don’t slip at all, which is why i’m guessing it’s the PCM ordering a TCC unlock condition.

i’ve dropped the pan, no metal anywhere. i replaced the solenoid pack, no change. i replaced the vb with no change either.

the truck also shifts very very softly when heated up fully occasionally, and after the engine is cranked up while it’s still warm, the trans will bang into gear for the first few shifts, then even itself out. almost like the trans doesn’t know what fluid pressure to operate at.


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Are you using a scan tool like the WiTech VCI Pod and a laptop or another type of quality scan tool to monitor the TCC command state? Or is it being monitored from the driver seat while watching the tach? Just curious to see if the PCM is actually commanding the TCC unlock or not?

 

[NickSteel]

Are you using a scan tool like the WiTech VCI Pod and a laptop or another type of quality scan tool to monitor the TCC command state? Or is it being monitored from the driver seat while watching the tach? Just curious to see if the PCM is actually commanding the TCC unlock or not?

i don’t have a scan tool capable of actually monitoring what the PCM is saying, only what i can see visually with the tach.


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[LoadedExpressRam]

After changing your solenoid and vb did you perform some type of relearn on your transmission? Not saying this is your problem i am just curious because i too would like to upgrade those things but under the impression you must perform a relearn with a special tool or something.

 

[NickSteel]

After changing your solenoid and vb did you perform some type of relearn on your transmission? Not saying this is your problem i am just curious because i too would like to upgrade those things but under the impression you must perform a relearn with a special tool or something.

I didn’t preform a relearn, as i didn’t think it was necessary and for the fact that it kept doing the exact same thing it was doing before so i didnt even think about it. Should i do this? How do i do it? How much does it cost to get a relearn done?


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[NickSteel]

Forgot to add, the trans flares the 2-4 shift, 4-5 shift and the 5-6 shift.


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[LoadedExpressRam]

I didn’t preform a relearn, as i didn’t think it was necessary and for the fact that it kept doing the exact same thing it was doing before so i didnt even think about it. Should i do this? How do i do it? How much does it cost to get a relearn done?


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Not sure exactly how as this was the reason i was asking you to hopefully find out but ive read somewhere on here that alpha obd can do it. Ive also heard that your local transmission shop may do it for a small fee. As far as i know its something that should not be skipped when one disconnects the vb from the transmission and goes replacing stuff. Did you also upgrade your actuator pistons as well? Heard thats a big improvement on these 6 speeds.

 

[NickSteel]

Not sure exactly how as this was the reason i was asking you to hopefully find out but ive read somewhere on here that alpha obd can do it. Ive also heard that your local transmission shop may do it for a small fee. As far as i know its something that should not be skipped when one disconnects the vb from the transmission and goes replacing stuff. Did you also upgrade your actuator pistons as well? Heard thats a big improvement on these 6 speeds.

Yeah, accumulator pistons are upgraded. I’m looking into it, and i’m thinking about buying one of those fancy Chrysler scan tools. The dealer will do it but for a fee of like 100$ from what i hear.


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[Hemi395]

@TheEnder might be able to shed some light on this.....

 

[TheEnder]

Hello Nick,

What you are experiencing is normal on these trucks, which may sound crazy, but it is.

What’s happening here is that the torque converter only locks in and after 4th, and that explains why you’re not getting any signs of aforementioned “shift flare” between gears 1-2.

Essentially, when your truck drops from 6th to 5th gear, the TCM commands a unlock of the torque converter, which in some cases can raise RPMs as high as 600, but they’ll immediately come back down as the TCM signals the torque converter to re-lock. It’s not as prominent when you have your foot all the way off the gas because just that, you have your foot all the way off the gas.

You have a flare in gears 2-4, 4-5 and 5-6 because the torque converter is unlocking (which is NORMAL on RFE transmissions) before each shift, and then locking after each shift. You can verify this by looking at the tach after the flare, once the RPMs drop after the shift, they may drop again by as little at 200 and as high as 300RPM, which is the torque converter re-locking.

I might’ve missed it, but how’s the metal in the pan? If you don’t have much metal in the pan, and it’s been doing this for a while, then that would be one sign to me personally that nothing is catastrophically wrong.

Have you checked for any torque converter codes with a scan tool? You don’t have to get a expensive chrysler tool, you can check for codes with a normal one.

Forgot to mention this earlier, but the only reason it does this is because of the crazy long gears and the horrible programming that Chrysler ships the 65RFE with. I think the engineers knew that the OD clutches were horrible and that’s why the throttle response is so horrific...


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[TheEnder]

Just to clarify, if the PCM detected slipping or anything out of the ordinary, it’d let you know by setting a fault code too. You’re in the clear, stop worrying, and enjoy your truck.


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[TheEnder]

Also, just in case you don’t understand how a torque converter works, think about 2 of the exact same fans pointing directly at each other. Now turn one on. Now see, that fan is going to blow air onto the other fan and cause it to spin. This is the exact same principles a vehicles torque converter goes by, only with fluid.

Now, with traditional locking torque converters, you have a clutch inside electronically operated by the PCM with hydraulic fluid straight from the pump that locks the torque converter past direct drive (4th) for maximum fuel efficiency. When this clutch is ON, you have a 1:1 ratio between the engine and transmission, with no power loss between them.

Now, when your truck is shifting into 5th from 6th, the PCM orders this clutch to the OFF position, which lets the torque converter spin freely to stall speed (which on your case can be to 2100 RPM) and then lock back up, which is normal.

This is why when in low gears and driving slowly & easily the RFE may shift funny, and sometimes slowly, because the torque converter is unlocked.


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[Fast69Mopar]

@TheEnder is correct. This appears to be normal operation from your 65RFE without driving the truck myself. The software in the TCM that these trucks are shipped with is horrible. There are so many improvements that can be made with some simple trans tuning. HP Tuners works very well for me when tuning the trucks with the 65RFE. I like to take the TCC application and change it to apply in 4th gear and higher only to eliminate what feels like the shift flare from the TCC engaging and disengaging.

As a rule of thumb any time I perform a repair or replacement of an RFE transmission I perform a QuickLearn when done with the repairs. I have done things this was since the first 45RFE I ever saw in 1998 at my dealership in a new 1999 Jeep Grand Cherokee.

 

[LoadedExpressRam]

Hello Nick,

What you are experiencing is normal on these trucks, which may sound crazy, but it is.

What’s happening here is that the torque converter only locks in and after 4th, and that explains why you’re not getting any signs of aforementioned “shift flare” between gears 1-2.

Essentially, when your truck drops from 6th to 5th gear, the TCM commands a unlock of the torque converter, which in some cases can raise RPMs as high as 600, but they’ll immediately come back down as the TCM signals the torque converter to re-lock. It’s not as prominent when you have your foot all the way off the gas because just that, you have your foot all the way off the gas.

You have a flare in gears 2-4, 4-5 and 5-6 because the torque converter is unlocking (which is NORMAL on RFE transmissions) before each shift, and then locking after each shift. You can verify this by looking at the tach after the flare, once the RPMs drop after the shift, they may drop again by as little at 200 and as high as 300RPM, which is the torque converter re-locking.

I might’ve missed it, but how’s the metal in the pan? If you don’t have much metal in the pan, and it’s been doing this for a while, then that would be one sign to me personally that nothing is catastrophically wrong.

Have you checked for any torque converter codes with a scan tool? You don’t have to get a expensive chrysler tool, you can check for codes with a normal one.

Forgot to mention this earlier, but the only reason it does this is because of the crazy long gears and the horrible programming that Chrysler ships the 65RFE with. I think the engineers knew that the OD clutches were horrible and that’s why the throttle response is so horrific...


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Appreciate the info.

 

[LoadedExpressRam]

Does anybody know if this quicklearn or relearn can be done with alpha obd? Im looking to upgrade my accumulator pistons next time i drop my pan and curious if possible.

 

[Hemi395]

Does anybody know if this quicklearn or relearn can be done with alpha obd? Im looking to upgrade my accumulator pistons next time i drop my pan and curious if possible.

Yes alfaobd can perform the quicklearn

 

[LoadedExpressRam]

Yes alfaobd can perform the quicklearn

Appreciate that info as well.

 

[Hemi395]

No problem! Someone on here did a quicklearn with Alfaobd, I just don't remember who it was.

Honestly alfaobd is worth the money just for things like that[emoji106]

 

[TheEnder]

No problem! Someone on here did a quicklearn with Alfaobd, I just don't remember who it was.

Honestly alfaobd is worth the money just for things like that[emoji106]

Good to know!


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[NickSteel]

this is great to know, thank you everyone. i beat on the truck a little bit today and it started to act better, gotta love the programming lol


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