8hp70 heater bypass

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Wild one

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How would the fluid not evacuate through the dipstick tube during a shutdown, like it does when the filler plug is removed?

Or, is that so minimal an amount that the vertical dipstick tube would contain the fluid volume?

.
It doesn't evacute per say,as much as it just runs back to the pan when the pump quits spinning,no differant then the engine,the oil level in the pan is always lower when the engines running,once the engine is off,the oil runs back to the pan.A 3 foot long dipstick would have more then enough capacity to absorb the fluid that would run back to the transmission pan easily.The fluid in the dipstick tube would never get higher then the fluid in the pan.
 

RamDiver

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It doesn't evacute per say,as much as it just runs back to the pan when the pump quits spinning,no differant then the engine,the oil level in the pan is always lower when the engines running,once the engine is off,the oil runs back to the pan.A 3 foot long dipstick would have more then enough capacity to absorb the fluid that would run back to the transmission pan easily.The fluid in the dipstick tube would never get higher then the fluid in the pan.

I must have got the wrong idea from listening to members who mistakenly tried to verify the ZF 8-speed fluid level with the engine off, no surprise.

The apparent deluge of fluid was likely millilitres versus ounces.
I'm sure it was lost in the translation. :cool:

Thanks for the clarification.

Have you identified any potential fittings for this project?

.
 
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caulk04

caulk04

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I just don't have the ability to prototype anything anymore. I used to be able to do personal projects at work on my own time but that has been disallowed because, well, Karen.

The fluid level in these trans is above the level of the pan altogether, I imagine other trans are the same. So to use the port in the pan you'd have to develop some kind of remote sight glass type arrangement or who knows what. There's a way, certainly. I enjoy solving problems like this, it's just outside what I have at my disposal.
 

stenerson

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I installed Jesse's bypass last year. Does it actually make the transmission run cooler or does it only slow down how quickly it comes up to temperature? It seems once the tranny warms up it will keep flowing with OEM setup. Just curious.
 

Wild one

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I installed Jesse's bypass last year. Does it actually make the transmission run cooler or does it only slow down how quickly it comes up to temperature? It seems once the tranny warms up it will keep flowing with OEM setup. Just curious.
The thermostat even open isn't a full flow thermostat, Jesse's bypass basically removes the flow restriction the stock thermostat creates,so consequently more fluid is flowing to the cooler,and the transmissions run cooler
 

CanuckRam1313

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I installed Jesse's bypass last year. Does it actually make the transmission run cooler or does it only slow down how quickly it comes up to temperature? It seems once the tranny warms up it will keep flowing with OEM setup. Just curious.
I see up to a 30 deg/c decrease in trans temps and a 3 to 5 deg/c decrease in engine temps with @caulk04 transmission cooler bypass valve on my truck.

I've been using them for many years over a couple of different Ram trucks.

Great bit of engineering that's simplicity at its best coupled with a real world designer that truly cares about the MOPAR/RAM platforms and the people that utilize his products!
 

Ram Night

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They should be based on the engine coolant temp....its affected by the trans temp, for sure, but I dont think enough that the coolant wont ever get up to temp enough to open the shutters.

Could be that the ultimate "non-intrusive" "fix" for coolant and trans temps is the bypass part in this thread + removing the inner AGS shutters (as long as you leave the outers connected the system will still work without throwing a CEL)
I only have outer shutters on my 17 Night Edition, and I removed half of the lower ones to make room for the behind the grill off road lights, and I have no CEls or other issues with heat or cold.
 

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Ram Night

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So here's what I've come up with. The longer spring in the factory setup is there to compress the wax motor as it cools. They do not retract on their own. No need for that spring in my design.

The shorter spring is a damper of sorts so the extension of the wax motor does not become limited and put high stress on the plastic cap. That means the brass washer seals off flow and the spring keeps it there.

The only thing I need to confirm is that the depth I've figured is correct to seal and seat properly. I'll do that on my truck soon.

Installation will be quick and simple. Gain access to the thermostat housing, remove snap ring, remove cap and thermostat assembly. You'll keep the cap and the pin from the stock assembly but replace the thermostat with my bypass plug.

View attachment 236277

View attachment 236278
Could you tell me what you are talking about with the wax motor on this valve? I have a valve kit on order and would like to know? Thanks
 

Wild one

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Could you tell me what you are talking about with the wax motor on this valve? I have a valve kit on order and would like to know? Thanks
Pretty well all thermostats including engine have been using a wax pellet/motor for many years now.The wax melts and expands at a certain temp,the days of the old good bi-metal spring thermostats are long gone.


Wax motor thermostats, commonly used in automotive cooling systems, function by using specialized wax contained in a chamber that expands as it melts. When the coolant reaches a specific temperature, the wax expands, pushing a piston that opens a valve, allowing coolant to flow into the radiator. As the liquid cools, a spring contracts the wax and closes the valve. [1, 2, 3, 4]
Key Aspects of Wax Motor Thermostat Function:
  • Components: The device consists of a capsule containing a mixture of wax and copper or graphite powder, a rubber seal, a piston, and a return spring. [1, 2]
  • Heating Action: As the engine warms up, the coolant heats the wax, causing it to change from a solid to a liquid state and expand rapidly. [1, 2]
  • Expansion and Operation: The expanding wax exerts pressure on a rubber insert, forcing a piston to move outward, which opens the main thermostat valve. [1, 2, 3]
  • Cooling Action: When the engine runs cooler or is turned off, the wax solidifies and contracts, allowing a spring to force the piston back, closing the valve and stopping the coolant flow. [1, 2]
  • Temperature Regulation: This process is highly precise, with the valve progressively opening or closing based on the exact temperature, balancing the coolant flow to maintain the optimal engine operating range. [1, 2]
Common Applications:
  • Automotive Engines: The primary application, controlling coolant temperature.
  • Appliances/Industry: Often referred to as thermoactuators for controlling liquid temperature in other machinery. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
Fail-Safe Design:
Most automotive thermostats are designed to fail in the "open" position. This ensures that if the wax mechanism breaks, the engine will not overheat immediately but will instead run continuously at a cooler temperature.
 
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EdGs

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.........Fail-Safe Design:
Most automotive thermostats are designed to fail in the "open" position. This ensures that if the wax mechanism breaks, the engine will not overheat immediately but will instead run continuously at a cooler temperature.
I think I've seen and heard of way more thermostats failing closed, or more often, opening too late.

Even more disturbing is the sheer amount of crappy products out there.....

Sad.
 

Wild one

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I think I've seen and heard of way more thermostats failing closed, or more often, opening too late.

Even more disturbing is the sheer amount of crappy products out there.....

Sad.
Things went to hell when Motorad bought out alot of the old good thermostat manufactures,and started flogging their garbage thermostats on us. These days if you have a good operating thermostat,i wouldn't be changing it for a new one,as the odds of getting a bad thermostat seem to be alot higher then the odds of getting a good one are
 

EdGs

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This is am AI narrated vid that references Jesse's bypass, at the 7:00 minute mark.


It does not show a picture of the bypass, and there's quite a few pictures of non-Ram components and engines.
 
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Ram Night

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Pretty well all thermostats including engine have been using a wax pellet/motor for many years now.The wax melts and expands at a certain temp,the days of the old good bi-metal spring thermostats are long gone.


Wax motor thermostats, commonly used in automotive cooling systems, function by using specialized wax contained in a chamber that expands as it melts. When the coolant reaches a specific temperature, the wax expands, pushing a piston that opens a valve, allowing coolant to flow into the radiator. As the liquid cools, a spring contracts the wax and closes the valve. [1, 2, 3, 4]
Key Aspects of Wax Motor Thermostat Function:
  • Components: The device consists of a capsule containing a mixture of wax and copper or graphite powder, a rubber seal, a piston, and a return spring. [1, 2]
  • Heating Action: As the engine warms up, the coolant heats the wax, causing it to change from a solid to a liquid state and expand rapidly. [1, 2]
  • Expansion and Operation: The expanding wax exerts pressure on a rubber insert, forcing a piston to move outward, which opens the main thermostat valve. [1, 2, 3]
  • Cooling Action: When the engine runs cooler or is turned off, the wax solidifies and contracts, allowing a spring to force the piston back, closing the valve and stopping the coolant flow. [1, 2]
  • Temperature Regulation: This process is highly precise, with the valve progressively opening or closing based on the exact temperature, balancing the coolant flow to maintain the optimal engine operating range. [1, 2]
Common Applications:
  • Automotive Engines: The primary application, controlling coolant temperature.
  • Appliances/Industry: Often referred to as thermoactuators for controlling liquid temperature in other machinery. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
Fail-Safe Design:
Most automotive thermostats are designed to fail in the "open" position. This ensures that if the wax mechanism breaks, the engine will not overheat immediately but will instead run continuously at a cooler temperature.
This is great information. Thank you This is like the heaters in electric motor controllers. They have solder in them that will melt at a set temperature that lets the heater shaft to turn and trip the heater block when too much of a load it on it. Like a breaker. Or the wax I use on bearings when using the induction heater to let me know when it is at the proper assembly temp. :)
 
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Ram Night

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Starting this thread to consolidate some information that we've been discussing (https://www.ramforum.com/threads/revmax-8-speed-thermostat-bypass.171776/unread) on the topic of keeping the 8hp70 cooler than stock.

Here you'll see the thermostat assembly broken down into its individual components.

View attachment 236120


I have parts on order to make my own device to bypass the heater and flow fluid through the cooler up front all the time. You'll reuse the black plastic plug and the pin next to it. If someone was to purchase the brass plug from revmax, it should work as well but I don't have one to be sure.

I should have something made up this week, will update this post then. End game, I'd like to make these available to purchase but we'll see.
I have one on order and will look forward to installing it.
 

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