AF vs SilverBullet Showdown

[sawcut64]

Could he be a tooth off and not throw the code??? Im not sure if its possible to not throw it just tossing out an idea... we almost need a new thread just for trouble shooting this problem and cross it off the list as we go.

I personally have yet to see it NOT throw a code if it's off a tooth BUT have heard that it can happen? Also very rarely a pushrod can pop out even after it's verified and running, had this happen to me 3-4 times out of the 100 plus installs. I think it probably has something to do with lifter bleed down and slow pump up after it's started resulting in too much slop and POP goes the pushrod.

 

[Trupiano]

So as I see it, one thing at a time. Get the exhaust completely buttoned up/o2 bungs and all, sounds like the wiring is fine. Wonder why your not throwing a code for your rears not installed? Anyway after that, drive it around a lil, if it doesn't get better, maybe ck to see if you popped the pushrod? And while your doing that, maybe have hemifever or someone look at a datalog so they can see if AFR is where it should be? Good luck man! Wish we could all be of more help : /

 

[Silverbullet08]

Sorry if this has already been addressed but DAMN this thread is HUGE. One thing that comes to mind when lengthening wires on the O2 is they have two white a black and a gray, the whites could easily be mixed up during the lengthening process. If they are it could/would, pardon my French...**** **** completely up. I have two extra 05' sensors but for the life of me can't remember if they're front or rear. I just installed heads yesterday and had the guy unhook his headers and then hook them back up when we were done, anyway he forgot to reconnect the front O2 sensors and it would not idle after the first few minutes. Just lots of stalling and some surging, then after he hooked them up it still would stall, even after we reset the PCM. The only thing that made it idle was about 10 miles or so of driving, then it idled fine. With the open exhaust like this its a massive exhaust leak, and even though the O2's are now installed, the PCM is reading all sorts of funky thinks because of it. I'm not saying this is 100% your problem, might be, might not be, but it is a problem so get her all buttoned up and we can go from there. A Sidewinder is not such an aggressive cam that it needs tuning to even run, I've installed several and only one guy had issue's with running and that was after running around with it...still not sure what his problem is but his is no where as severe as yours.

im wondering why it idled fine and then went to ****.... im trying to get the exhaust done tomorrow...

 

[sawcut64]

im wondering why it idled fine and then went to ****.... im trying to get the exhaust done tomorrow...

Same thing happened to me yesterday and only after hooking everything up, resetting the PCM, and forcing it to drive did it hold idle...and his was a full tight exhaust. Could also be a pushrod causing problems, like I said they do occasionally pop out even after it's running.

 

[sawcut64]

One other thing that comes to mind, and again I apologize if it's already been addressed, did you do any tune loading while the battery was weak? That has caused tons of weird issue's as well.

 

[Silverbullet08]

One other thing that comes to mind, and again I apologize if it's already been addressed, did you do any tune loading while the battery was weak? That has caused tons of weird issue's as well.

nope i didnt load a tune. it was reloaded on the new battery...

 

[AF_Hemi]

Nick the longer this goes on the more it seems a pushrod is the culprit. I'd pull the valve covers. 8mm deep well and 8mm wrench for the back one. Rocker arms are 10 mm.

 

[Silverbullet08]

^ yea maybe bc it idled great then maybe a pushrod popped and thats whats happening??

 

[sawcut64]

^ yea maybe bc it idled great then maybe a pushrod popped and thats whats happening??

Could be but I really doubt it, not saying it's not just saying it's rare.

 

[Laramie1997]

In the past I've dealt with popped pushrods and ones that have been bent. In both cases you had some "extra" noise going on in the engine bay denoting that you have a more serious problem than a simple A/F issue.

I can certainly see that it would be hard to hear with the exhaust not being dampened right now, but that's simply my observation.

And, I'm still not sure that you are getting the PCM totally reset. I'm a little green with these newer motors with total computer control, but from what I've seen and done, just unhooking the battery cable won't fully reset the computer. I've always had to pull the cable, and then either cycle the key with the cable unhooked, or turn on my headlights in order to get rid of any residual charge still running around the wire system.

Sam mentioned in a post a few pages back or so that the O2 sensors have two white wires.... VERIFY that you do indeed have them wired in correctly. I would assume that both wires would have a difference in volts that's running across them, so a multimeter might be your best friend at this point.


If you are sure that the wires are not the problem, then yea, you need to pop the valve covers and have a look see. If you can turn a wrench, you can pull off a valve cover. Excuse my crudeness in saying that at this point, you gotta get the balls to jump in and get a little dirty.

 

[sawcut64]

In the past I've dealt with popped pushrods and ones that have been bent. In both cases you had some "extra" noise going on in the engine bay denoting that you have a more serious problem than a simple A/F issue.

I can certainly see that it would be hard to hear with the exhaust not being dampened right now, but that's simply my observation.

And, I'm still not sure that you are getting the PCM totally reset. I'm a little green with these newer motors with total computer control, but from what I've seen and done, just unhooking the battery cable won't fully reset the computer. I've always had to pull the cable, and then either cycle the key with the cable unhooked, or turn on my headlights in order to get rid of any residual charge still running around the wire system.

Sam mentioned in a post a few pages back or so that the O2 sensors have two white wires.... VERIFY that you do indeed have them wired in correctly. I would assume that both wires would have a difference in volts that's running across them, so a multimeter might be your best friend at this point.


If you are sure that the wires are not the problem, then yea, you need to pop the valve covers and have a look see. If you can turn a wrench, you can pull off a valve cover. Excuse my crudeness in saying that at this point, you gotta get the balls to jump in and get a little dirty.

With the pushrod popped the valve stays shut and the pushrod just sits there, basically it makes no noise. Of all the ones on the Hemi I've seen popped, none made noise aside from backfires out the exhaust and that was only when more then one pushrod popped.

Nick if you want me to check things out I can also swap out my known good O2 sensor and see what that does.

 

[Silverbullet08]

With the pushrod popped the valve stays shut and the pushrod just sits there, basically it makes no noise. Of all the ones on the Hemi I've seen popped, none made noise aside from backfires out the exhaust and that was only when more then one pushrod popped.

Nick if you want me to check things out I can also swap out my known good O2 sensor and see what that does.

yes i would greatly appreciate it. when are you available?

 

[0212353]

I just want to say that I love the amount of help that is flowing from this forum, not only in the form of AF coming down to do the install, but the comments and Sam offering to help. Great comradery fellas! RF rocks!

 

[Silverbullet08]

i just want to say that i love the amount of help that is flowing from this forum, not only in the form of af coming down to do the install, but the comments and sam offering to help. Great comradery fellas! Rf rocks!

agreed!!

 

[sawcut64]

yes i would greatly appreciate it. when are you available?

Text sent.

 

[0212353]

Ok, I just took my pink tutu off.......lets get this ***** running! LOL

 

[Bad Habit]

its a brother hood for sure, good luck sam and nick i hope you get it going soon...

 

[Laramie1997]

With the pushrod popped the valve stays shut and the pushrod just sits there, basically it makes no noise. Of all the ones on the Hemi I've seen popped, none made noise aside from backfires out the exhaust and that was only when more then one pushrod popped.

On the old 350's (GM, I know ) When a pushrod is dislodged, there is certaintly some interesting rattle going around that you can hear at idle.

Meh. Differences I guess at this point. It's nothing to really argue about.

 

[sawcut64]

On the old 350's (GM, I know ) When a pushrod is dislodged, there is certaintly some interesting rattle going around that you can hear at idle.

Meh. Differences I guess at this point. It's nothing to really argue about.

Didn't mean it as an argue!! Just pointing out in the Hemi motor when the pushrod is popped the lifter and pushrod will lift off the cam lobe and hang there with the pushrod basically wedged along side the rocker arm. I would think it's noisy as hell with the lifter bouncing off the cam but it must not make much if any contact after the pushrod is free? Also might be due to the fact of the lifter yoke that holds four of the lifters holds the lifter in the top most position?

 

[Laramie1997]

I dunno. It's been a long time since I cracked open a GM motor which is where I'm drawing most of my learnins from. lol

Wasn't meaning an argument like that, but mainly not to get this thread off topic too much.