Anyone HAPPY with Borg Warner 44-44 / Auto 4WD

[chrisbh17]

One thing that most everyone is missing, as soon as the auto 4 wd or so called lock button is pushed the first thing that happens is the front axle inter connect operates once that happens it is just like an old 4x4 with the hubs locked both sides of the front axle are spined together, then the truck is just waiting to engage the transfer case clutch when it decides to. I am one of the people that do not like or trust this damned t-case.

So does that mean the axles are connected and the front diff is spinning the shaft between it an the xfer case, even without a call for all 4 wheels being driven?

I thought it worked the other way around - electromagnetic clutch is triggered on 4Auto/4Lock button, which puts the xfer case in a sort of "ready" mode and causes the front driveshaft to be driven once the rear wheels start to slip. I did have a dealer tell me today there will always be about 20% torque going to the front wheels in ANY 4WD mode, so its possible the driveshaft is driven regardless, but like I said I thought 4Auto/4Lock drove the xfer case electromagnetic trigger and not the front axles/front diff.

 

[LouM]

Yes, as soon as any 4wd button is pressed the first step is engaging the axle disconnect and then the computer is ready to play with the clutch in the t-case

 

[iam_canadian22]

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[ColdCase]

Just to be clear, the axle disconnect is located on the axle near the front diff, not in the transfer case. Its an independent thing. Being a splined shaft, I think the operation would be smoother if its locked before the transfer case tries to send power to the front. In 4WD lock, the front axle used to be preloaded about 20 ftlbs, dunno on the newest models, so the splines should be connected. In auto there is no preload until rear wheel spin is detected. I don't know if the splines are locked in auto mode, or if the software waits until there is wheel spin to lock the axle and activate the clutch.

 

[smiley]

I have from a good source the New Ram will have the BW48-11 anyone seen one of these on other vehicles? I couldn’t find anything so either it is code or this is a first. I don’t know!

 

[iam_canadian22]

I have from a good source the New Ram will have the BW48-11 anyone seen one of these on other vehicles? I couldn’t find anything so either it is code or this is a first. I don’t know!

I hope they do something.

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[chrisbh17]

Just to be clear, the axle disconnect is located on the axle near the front diff, not in the transfer case. Its an independent thing. Being a splined shaft, I think the operation would be smoother if its locked before the transfer case tries to send power to the front. In 4WD lock, the front axle used to be preloaded about 20 ftlbs, dunno on the newest models, so the splines should be connected. In auto there is no preload until rear wheel spin is detected. I don't know if the splines are locked in auto mode, or if the software waits until there is wheel spin to lock the axle and activate the clutch.

If the tech I spoke to yesterday could be believed (and I have no idea if he can), it sounds like Auto engages the spline and automatically sends 20% to the front wheels, so it sounds like there is preload even in Auto as well.

Now a semi-related question - what in all of this works might cause the vibration that Im getting to get WORSE in 4-Auto? Could it be pointing at a front differential issue?

 

[ColdCase]

Just guessing, thinking out loud, well thinking may be suspect. If the axle splines are locked in both auto and 4Lock and the front gets a preload only when the clutches are activated (Lock position) but not in auto (not until wheel spin is detected)... then, in 4auto the front axle, diff, drive shafts are free wheeling but in 4Lock they have some pre-load. The difference in free wheel and load could be causing differences in vibration... so are the driveshaft joints and CV joints in good shape? Some debris stuck to the driveshaft ? ....

 

[Hemi395]

That makes sense about the pre load is more in lock because my truck will make a whining noise when turning in 4Lock on dry pavement, but it's silent in 4Auto

 

[chrisbh17]

Just guessing, thinking out loud, well thinking may be suspect. If the axle splines are locked in both auto and 4Lock and the front gets a preload only when the clutches are activated (Lock position) but not in auto (not until wheel spin is detected)... then, in 4auto the front axle, diff, drive shafts are free wheeling but in 4Lock they have some pre-load. The difference in free wheel and load could be causing differences in vibration... so are the driveshaft joints and CV joints in good shape? Some debris stuck to the driveshaft ? ....

Kinda along the lines of my thinking. Just to correct you a bit, Im seeing differences in vibration between 2WD and 4 Auto. Honestly havent used 4 lock yet because we havent had that kind of weather.

But your thinking still applies, IMHO. Some pre load even in 4-Auto will "load up" the axles and possibly amplify an existing condition?

The shafts and boots look OK....doesnt mean there isnt something wrong internally to the joints, diff or even wheel bearings though.

 

[smiley]

Not sure why people on ramforums love to parrot this statement but it isn't true. I've driven true locking 4wd for years and I've done it on partial slippery/partial dry country highways for years and never once damaged or strained anything. RAM service, independent off road shops and regular garages I've dealt with all said the same thing and the best reply I got was:

"wtf do you think people did before there was such a thing as AWD or 4 Auto? Run around blowing up transmissions everywhere?"

Try needing to drive through some soft uneven fields in the wet spring or fall and see how awesome a diff that doesn't truly lock is.

I'm obviously not saying everyone has to have that kind of transmission, but some of you do like saying you need an auto 4wd on roads that are partially dry which isn't true either. In fact the only time I've ever had mine bind a little was once, making a really tight series of turns in a cramped area that had ice. Another gem I see repeated besides the "binding/damage" statements was people claiming your tires wear more. Also not true.

What is true is that I personally have been stuck in soft mud on several occasions because I was in a vehicle that didn't lock all 4 wheels. Never once in a vehicle that did, never broke the transmission in either case.

Spot on. You could drive a 4 lock down the highway no issue until turning might be a little hard on it on dry pavement. The idea an auto is even needed is pretty silly. I wanted the auto because I thought it would be like awd my Durango had but it isn’t at all. It is 2wd with front axle ready. I would equate it to locking in the hubs but not being in 4wd on an old ford. It works a little better than 2wd but until I put it into lock mode it just isn’t good enough. Mine is the old NVG and actually locks when it says locked but I would not care if I had the auto as it sucks at least mine locks. The Durango one was great it was awd then 4 lock if you wanted so you had both worlds. It probably isn’t as strong and why they didn’t put it in the Rams.

 

[Ken226]

We had a good ice storm here for the last couple weeks so I've had a good opportunity to really get to know my bw44-44.

I've been driving it on solid sheet ice, deep snow and plenty of icy, slushy mud for the past 2 weeks.

Even in 4 auto, my rear wheels never turn more that about a quarter turn before the front starts pulling. And most of the time, it's even less than that.

Once the rears have slipped it's 1/4 turn and the ball ramp clutch is working, it seems to stay engaged. When I hit the next hill, they're all 4 pulling.

It actually seems to allow the rears to slip a little more on that first slippage in 4 lock than in 4 auto, but still never more than about 1/4 rotation of the rears. And on the next hill, and the next and so on, they all spin at the same time. Only does it on the first time after selecting 4auto or 4 lock.

To be honest, and despite my concerns, my 44-44 has performed beautifully during this ice storm. I pulled an early 90 chevy 4x4 up a hill last week and my 44-44 way way outperformed the old Chevy.

Every single time he started spinning going up the hill, his truck immediately slid sideways and started sliding back down. I guess because he didn't have traction control, all four spun and the truck started rotating.

I drove down, past him, turned around, drove back up around him and easily backed up into position behind him.

I hooked up a tow strap and while pulling, all 4 wheels were being modulated by the traction control. My truck never went sideways and pulled his old ass Chevy all the way up.

His Chevy had street tires and my ram has Atturo trailblazer m/t tires.

I'm learning to like the 44-44.

When I've done the various "tests", others here have tried, like 4 low on ice or holding the brake and gas at the same time on ice, I was concerned as well with the way the system behaved.

But, that said, when I was actually driving, trying to actually go somewhere on ice, snow or mud, it seems to work quite well.

In actual use, not testing, it seems really work.

The only situation I've found where it's a problem is when backing a trailer in mud. When shifting back and forth between forward/reverse, it seems to take a few turns of the rear wheels to get the fronts engaged. Of course, by then, your buried in.

Probably because the ball ramp is a bi-directional design (has to be or reverse would be 2wd only), once you switch from reverse to drive, or from drive to reverse, the Bal ramp hasto rotate a few turns before it clamps the clutch plates together.

 

[mohemipar]

Nice write up. I will say that your tires probably helped you a lot over the stock SR-A's. Those can cause the truck to slip around much easier in bad conditions. Tires are a huge part of the battle when looking for traction.

 

[billyw]

I commute about 50 miles/day and get about 2 mpg better with auto than lock. That alone is enough for me to use it. When it gets genuinely hairy out there, I put it in lock.

And to add to this fire, my OEM SR-A's performed very well in the snow and ice after I got them siped and made sure to have 300 - 400 lbs in the bed. They were at least as good as my current Cooper A/T3s for road use.

 

[Reddington]

I commute about 50 miles/day and get about 2 mpg better with auto than lock. That alone is enough for me to use it. When it gets genuinely hairy out there, I put it in lock.

And to add to this fire, my OEM SR-A's performed very well in the snow and ice after I got them siped and made sure to have 300 - 400 lbs in the bed. They were at least as good as my current Cooper A/T3s for road use.

Living in western New York our winter has been brutal so far and the SR-A's have performed surprisingly well. I am literally shocked at how well they have performed in the snow. I am coming from a 2015 Audi S4 that had dedicated snows (Nokian Hakka) and that car was just awesome in inclement weather. The SR-As are obviously not as good as the Nokian's, but have performed shockingly well.

 

[Hemi395]

The SRAs do surprisingly well in the snow. They just completely suck in the rain.

 

[Murphy Slaw]

I drove down, past him, turned around, drove back up around him and easily backed up into position behind him.

I hooked up a tow strap and while pulling, all 4 wheels were being modulated by the traction control. My truck never went sideways and pulled his old ass Chevy all the way up.

His Chevy had street tires and my ram has Atturo trailblazer m/t tires.

I'm learning to like the 44-44.

When I've done the various "tests", others here have tried, like 4 low on ice or holding the brake and gas at the same time on ice, I was concerned as well with the way the system behaved.

But, that said, when I was actually driving, trying to actually go somewhere on ice, snow or mud, it seems to work quite well.

In actual use, not testing, it seems really work.

That's the same thing I've noticed. Mine works fine in the real World.

 

[chrisbh17]

Im starting to get used to it, I think.

Coming from a Frontier with an actual stick to put the thing in 4H or 4L, the "Auto" and "Lock" are kinda new to me.

Im conditioned to back off the throttle if I feel slippage in the rear, but in the case of the 44-44 you almost need to power through it, otherwise you'll never have the front wheels engaged.

I was in deep snow at the end of my driveway but the truck didnt feel like it wanted to go...Im not sure what that was all about, but after my street was plowed I went out driving and could feel everything working as I would expect. Im not sure if that first time was a fluke, the snow was too deep even for the front wheels, if there is actually something wrong, etc. but I will keep an eye on it.

 

[JPT]

I have now had 2 snow storms under my belt with my '15. I have no complaints. I made my 40 mile commute on Long Island from Nassau county way out into Suffolk county (where most of the snow hit in NY). No issues at all, even on unplowed roads. Real world, on road, I see no issues with this TC, rain or snow.

 

[iam_canadian22]

We had a good ice storm here for the last couple weeks so I've had a good opportunity to really get to know my bw44-44.

I've been driving it on solid sheet ice, deep snow and plenty of icy, slushy mud for the past 2 weeks.

Even in 4 auto, my rear wheels never turn more that about a quarter turn before the front starts pulling. And most of the time, it's even less than that.

Once the rears have slipped it's 1/4 turn and the ball ramp clutch is working, it seems to stay engaged. When I hit the next hill, they're all 4 pulling.

It actually seems to allow the rears to slip a little more on that first slippage in 4 lock than in 4 auto, but still never more than about 1/4 rotation of the rears. And on the next hill, and the next and so on, they all spin at the same time. Only does it on the first time after selecting 4auto or 4 lock.

To be honest, and despite my concerns, my 44-44 has performed beautifully during this ice storm. I pulled an early 90 chevy 4x4 up a hill last week and my 44-44 way way outperformed the old Chevy.

Every single time he started spinning going up the hill, his truck immediately slid sideways and started sliding back down. I guess because he didn't have traction control, all four spun and the truck started rotating.

I drove down, past him, turned around, drove back up around him and easily backed up into position behind him.

I hooked up a tow strap and while pulling, all 4 wheels were being modulated by the traction control. My truck never went sideways and pulled his old ass Chevy all the way up.

His Chevy had street tires and my ram has Atturo trailblazer m/t tires.

I'm learning to like the 44-44.

When I've done the various "tests", others here have tried, like 4 low on ice or holding the brake and gas at the same time on ice, I was concerned as well with the way the system behaved.

But, that said, when I was actually driving, trying to actually go somewhere on ice, snow or mud, it seems to work quite well.

In actual use, not testing, it seems really work.

The only situation I've found where it's a problem is when backing a trailer in mud. When shifting back and forth between forward/reverse, it seems to take a few turns of the rear wheels to get the fronts engaged. Of course, by then, your buried in.

Probably because the ball ramp is a bi-directional design (has to be or reverse would be 2wd only), once you switch from reverse to drive, or from drive to reverse, the Bal ramp hasto rotate a few turns before it clamps the clutch plates together.

Your right, it works, until you fry the clutches.

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