Blackstone - used oil analysis

[HEMIMANN]

I'm getting confused. Again.

Red Line remains the gold standard for tick killer, no debate.

Amsoil didn't kill tick, at least in some cases, but had lowest wear.

HPL formulation looks a helluva lot like Amsoil to me. Idk if moly added % is the same, but I think it's fair to speculate only Red Line has higher % of ester base oil, based on correspondence from Dave @ Red Line. None of them will reveal the % blended.

 

[Burla]

At some point there would be enough uoa's to make a comparison hpl versus amsoil, maybe that time is now? It would take a lot of time and starch to do it right, in other words since I have neither it wont be done by me.

 

[BLUKTY2]

I'm getting confused. Again.

So glad that I'm not alone!

 

[TunaFresh]

I wonder if anyone has used redline for several years and what the outcome was. Lot of people change brands all the time.

 

[ramffml]

I wonder if anyone has used redline for several years and what the outcome was. Lot of people change brands all the time.

A lot of guys here have been using it for years with good success.

I'm more curious about the "failure" stories. It's harder to prove a positive (my engine is still running; is that because of RL/Oil, or, because I never had any defective/non hardened parts), but with failures we just get a definite answer that oil can't fix everything.

Such as this unfornatute UOA from @Sasquatchtdg showing severely increasing iron over 3 UOA's all running redline 5w-30 since 53k miles on the truck. Haven't heard anymore since this post here below:

Blackstone - used oil analysis

Another from my Ram 1500 w/ 5.7. I forgot to do one last oil change - so the last comparables are from roughly a year ago. What was the combo? Just straight PUP 5w30 or did you put any additive like Lubegaard?

www.ramforum.com

 

[Burla]

redline in my hemi now 15ish years maybe a couple less, at some point I will get a uoa, I wanna be sure I mark the mileage next oci. problem now I change oil in years not miles, hardly driving it.

 

[TunaFresh]

HPL just may be the ticket for these engines. More detergents than even redline.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/2020-jeep-grand-cherokee-srt-6-4l-hpl-super-car-0w-40-9-795km.369745/

 

[TunaFresh]

I started at page 1 and worked my way up to current. redline 5w-30 does look like a great performer in these engines.

 

[BLUKTY2]

I started at page 1 and worked my way up to current. redline 5w-30 does look like a great performer in these engines.

Well done! Now you need to start at page 1 of the Synthetic Oil thread and read up to the current page....

 

[HEMIMANN]

If we have a cold winter, I might make a UOA spreadsheet summary for Amsoil & HPL. Not sure how much time to put in with Hemi discontinued for new production.

If Red Line were always available and reasonably priced, we might not be discussing at all.

I do plan on doing a VOA vs. UOA for the EPA mouse motor. I wanna see if and how much turbos shear a Group III 5W-30 (PUP, in this case).

 

[dieseldave]

LakeSpeed Jr's take on wear numbers: do an OCI of 4000 to 6000 miles, calculate wear per 1000 miles. If that number is < 5, no changes are needed to your oil.

I've only seen excellent UOA's with HPL, including in my truck. Here is one on bitog for a 5.7 hemi with two HPL oils used in sample #3+4, a significant reduction in iron vs the Penzoil he used in sample #1. Copper went up but we know why (due to chemical reactions/leaching, same thing going on with RL having high copper, its not wear).

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/2019-ram-classic-5-7-hpl-euro-5w30.382976/

Is high copper bad

 

[Hootbro]

Is high copper bad

Yeah, past the first two or three oil changes to flush out assembly wear, high trending copper suggests connecting rod and/or crank bearing wear.

 

[ramffml]

Is high copper bad

It depends on the oil you're using. Oils with high Ester content (Redline, HPL) tend to show high amounts of copper in UOA's and the theory there is that the Ester is leaching the copper from the coolers in our trucks and other parts of the engine that contain copper. It was explained this way on a post from user RDY4WAR on BITOG

The copper isn't from wear. This is leaching of copper oxides from cleaning action. It settles down with subsequent samples.

If you were to take a penny, place it in a highly polar ester, heat it to ~200°F for several hours, and then sample the ester, ICP would show a lot of copper and zinc even though no abrasion nor corrosion is happening.

However, copper should trend down over time after the first time you use a high Ester content oil.

If you're not using RL/HPL etc, and you see high copper, most likely that's a sign of wear.

 

[HEMIMANN]

It depends on the oil you're using. Oils with high Ester content (Redline, HPL) tend to show high amounts of copper in UOA's and the theory there is that the Ester is leaching the copper from the coolers in our trucks and other parts of the engine that contain copper. It was explained this way on a post from user RDY4WAR on BITOG



However, copper should trend down over time after the first time you use a high Ester content oil.

If you're not using RL/HPL etc, and you see high copper, most likely that's a sign of wear.

edit - HPL doesn't have a high ester oil - they're all PAO (Group IV), only ester for additive carrier oil.

 

[ramffml]

edit - HPL doesn't have a high ester oil - they're all PAO (Group IV), only ester for additive carrier oil.

Appreciate the correction. I had a pretty big spike (second highest in my 8 UOAs to date) when using no-vii last summer for the first time, it went down after that when using the PCMO which is a group 3 IIRC.

 

[ramffml]

@HEMIMANN also note this comment from David himself:

The premium plus passenger car oil uses an ad pack that is based on D1G2. It also uses the same PAO/AN/Ester base stocks

By "the same ... base stocks" he's comparing P+ to SuperCar, so those 2 lines share the same base stocks.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/something-different-hpl-super-car-0w-40-for-the-srt.355171/post-6123856

 

[HEMIMANN]

From 2022 direct e-mail from David Stoiber of HPL to me - I did not take him to mean Euro & SuperCar had high ester content like Red Line does?


PCMO Premium Plus - same as the premium but made with a group IV PAO - extremely good in cold climates

EURO - These are euro specification multi-synthetic oils (group III, IV, ester, AN), each viscosity grade meets/exceeds the performance specifications of a different set of specs

SuperCar - These are euro specification multi-synthetic oils made with Group IV PAOs, esters, and AN. We originally made this to sell to a niche market of supercar owners - targeting the 0W-40 viscosity. Same as the EURO oil above, each viscosity meets/exceeds the performance specifications of a different set of specs

 

[ramffml]

From 2022 direct e-mail from David Stoiber of HPL to me - I did not take him to mean Euro & SuperCar had high ester content like Red Line does?


PCMO Premium Plus - same as the premium but made with a group IV PAO - extremely good in cold climates

EURO - These are euro specification multi-synthetic oils (group III, IV, ester, AN), each viscosity grade meets/exceeds the performance specifications of a different set of specs

SuperCar - These are euro specification multi-synthetic oils made with Group IV PAOs, esters, and AN. We originally made this to sell to a niche market of supercar owners - targeting the 0W-40 viscosity. Same as the EURO oil above, each viscosity meets/exceeds the performance specifications of a different set of specs

Beyond my paygrade! I've always read (multiple different posts on BITOG) that P+ and SuperCar are the same oils except different adpacks, and that doesn't sound like what David Stoiber is suggesting above. But it does appear he is saying SC has Esters, how much...

Maybe another email could help clear it up.

(Edit: or @Travis8352 I think you know these oils inside out?)

 

[gfh77665]

mmm, not sure I buy this one, why wouldn't redline get respect from these same folks? But we can both agree, hpl is top notch.

Exactly. Back in the day Royal Purple was hated on BITOG even when it had a more robust formulation and extended drain intervals. Red Line does not get any of the over-the-top love HPL gets. There are other examples of very high quality oils NOT getting the HPL love treatment too.

 

[TunaFresh]

edit - HPL doesn't have a high ester oil - they're all PAO (Group IV), only ester for additive carrier oil.

I searched on Bobistheoilguy.

All of their passenger car oils contain groups III, IV and V.
Some have said 10+% of groups V.

"HPL PCMO 5W-20 - Group III + AN + Ester - API SP/Dexos additive package
HPL NO-VII PCMO 5W-20 - PAO + AN + Ester - API SP/Dexos additive package (No VII polymers)
HPL NO-VII Euro 5W-20 - PAO + AN + Ester - Euro VW502/Porsche A40 additive package (No VII polymers)"

Amsoil Signature also contains group V.