Considering moving to Ram from Tundra

[Toymaker]

Ok - so here is my dilemma - purchased a 2021 Tundra Pro in June after much debate.

Ultimately- the Tundra won out over Ram based on a few points - first was simply availability and price - the Tundra I could have at sticker (55k) and finding another at the price point was unlikely.

The Toyota dealer was more of a known to me and reliability/resale factored in too. I liked the Limited Longhorn - but only 1 locally on lots and it wasn’t quite what I wanted.

So fast forward 6 months - Toyota has COMPLETELY lost me as a customer. Started as a bad experience at delivery of the truck (100% dealer - nothing on the brand) - more recently walk out after a cold snap of weather (3 days below freezing) and try to start truck - battery is dead. Charge it and go through test - battery will not charge beyond 11 volts - so call dealer and tell them battery is shot.

They make me have truck brought in (won’t just swap a battery - I get that in a way) - and while there prove their complete ignorance in service department (seriously called me saying needed permission to call a locksmith to open truck as doors locked and couldn’t open as fob wouldn’t work - spent 5 minutes arguing with them that the KEY will open the cylinder on the driver door until I had to show up and SHOW them) - anyway, they test it - yep bad battery - but claim an aftermarket amp replacement on the radio was causing it.

Up till this - no complaint with Toyota as a company…just an idiot dealer I will never return to again. My issue becomes when I go to dealer number 2. Explain what’s going on and they agree battery is warranted UNLESS something aftermarket is causing failure (I agree) - I do my own diag and find no excessive draw from anything on battery and tell them they have permission to do their own diag. They do and find nothing but a bad battery as well.

While the truck is there - I get a nice email from Toyota customer care regarding a complaint I made about dealer 1 and their service (or lack thereof). Nicely informed me that they reviewed the situation and feel dealer was right - and as a result they will be voiding both basic 3/36 and my extended warranty !!

Call dealer number 2 after calls to Toyota get me nowhere - dealer 2 service manager gets the straight story from warranty rep at corporate. Evidently dealer 1 saw a power commander in the console of the truck and reported I had installed an aftermarket tuner that voided warranty !! He realized of course a power commander wasn’t that - and is working on getting warranty back in place.

But now the damage is done with corporate to me - the fact they would cut me off with no warning based on the word of the first dealer and ignore what a 2nd dealer and customer are saying says all I need to know. Toyota is not the brand for me.

So now I’m out another $400 for a battery my in the truck (funny - I think nothing of spending $4000 in “upgrades” - but get ****** about spending $400 on an upgraded battery I know - but c’mon - any new truck should come with a battery that last a year before cramping out.

Thinking now may be the time to just cut it loose and move to Ram. Wondering if it’s going to be doable without losing my ass though. I’m in the Toyota 58k with tax/fees - of course I get taxes offset at trade. Add another 4K in swapped tires, amp power running board and upgraded amp/speakers and 2x10 sub box set up - that’s 62 more or less.

Carvana/Vroom offers based on “stock” are 55-58. Hate pulling all this stuff off a basically new truck and reselling it. Think there’s any chance a dealer gives me say 60k as is trade? And what’s a realistic price to pay for the Ram (assuming sticker is 70k with options) ?

Toyota pricing is simple - you pay sticker. Want to haggle - step aside as we have a line of people who will take it happily at sticker. Ram though is of course more “negotiable” in normal times as know I could expect 11-14% off with incentives - so a 70k sticker would be 62-63 at worst.

Am I dreaming expecting to find something without spending more than 5k out of pocket ? I mean I see locals offering 2020 Pros with 25k miles for 65-67k - obviously they don’t pay that for them - but is 60k for a 21 with under a 1k that unreasonable?!?

Also - how hard is it going to be to find a hemi WITHOUT etorque (my preferred config) - I know in 21 it was a slight cost to add - and in 22 it is even price wise…Not debating it’s value overall - but to me w/o doesn’t not pull trailers over 6k - I just don’t see value in it and see it as being just something else to go wrong on a proven engine.

 

[retired]

drive to a dealer and ask what they will do. It is a perfect time to unload it. You might have trouble tho if the warranty issue has not been cleared up and is showing on a carfax. sometimes you have to take a little loss but in the end you will be happy to give the finger to Toyota.

 

[BigLazer4u]

I would love to know the name of that dealership. Go sell the truck private, put it on cars.com or one of those websites, you will most likely sell it in a week. People can’t find vehicles right now. Even if you take a loss it will not be much of one

 

[chopperman1]

Ditch it now before the voided warranty shows up in a Carfax or similar. Value will decrease dramtically after that shows up.

 

[JoeCo]

I would love to know the name of that dealership. Go sell the truck private, put it on cars.com or one of those websites, you will most likely sell it in a week. People can’t find vehicles right now. Even if you take a loss it will not be much of one

That and also check Autonation and Carmax as well, since he already checked vroom/carvanna. My offers from Autonation and Carmax were the highest bidders (by a good margin) when I've sold 2 cars in the past year. They also cut you a check right then and there so no funny business with waiting for payment. Certainly worth taking 5 minutes to check, might get the 60-62 he's looking for right off the bat.

Also I totally agree about ousting that terrible dealer, might as well warn others to stay away.

As for his new ram, problem would be finding one on a lot somewhere, and then it's a crapshoot as to whether any deals will happen where you find the truck. It seems like over the past year most of us have turned to ordering to get the truck we want, rather than settle on something missing a lot. That is its own can of worms in itself though.

 

[Toymaker]

Ok - thanks for feedback.

So a few things: first and potentially most importantly- the warranty voiding issue is supposed to be in process of resolution. New dealer service talked with corporate about it - told them they had bad info and in short picked up where I left off with Toyota in reminding them of a little thing called Magnuson Moss.

Toyota WOULD have been 100% within their rights to void a warranty if an aftermarket mod I made caused an issue (again - a power commander won’t do that) but you can’t “flat” cancel things - and certainly not the extended warranty I paid cash for which technically I never received any benefit from. I have no doubt that the issue has been resolved and that the moron in Toyota corporate who threatened to cancel it was speaking out of turn.

Secondly - the dealer who royally screwed up - Modern Toyota of Winston-Salem - avoid this place at all cost. The Toyota in High Point has been the opposite- highly professional and easy to deal with. Both rep multiple brands - but neither are CDJR to my knowledge.

Third - I just hate going private on a newer vehicle. I mean selling a used 2005 truck for 10k - sure, your gonna get more that way - but how many “cash” buyers at 60k out there…you then get “I want it if the bank will approve me” - and of course with most of these buyers it’s “bank will only give me xx…will you take xx or let me pay the balance when taxes come”. Even worse - you gotta deal with test drives and dumbassery that follows - I/e bringing back a truck caked in mud underneath after being ran through a $2 car wash and “I’ll think about it” - I mean I agree you should be able to test drive a big purchase without supervision- but some people are just morons.

I’d prefer doing a trade with a dealer I’m buying from - as it gives them double incentive - both profit on a sale and profit on the trade. As mentioned new and like new used are hard to source - so dealer can make twice as much here and realistically should be taking less on both ends.

I don’t mind waiting on something to arrive - and wouldn’t be opposed to “selling” mine today and then taking delivery in a couple of months if I needed to (allowing dealer to take advantage of high used prices and low supply).

Again - just tire kicking right now, but I’m 99% it’s the best move - why invest so much in something that I don’t have any confidence in. If it was just a bad dealer - I’d find another and move on with life - but the experience with Toyota corporate and their treatment has shaken me badly. Whose to say they don’t pull this crap down the road - when I have less leverage and more to lose.

 

[turkeybird56]

OK; Somewhere down the line, I believe U will make the trade for a RAM. U R looking for a higher trim vehicle, they R out there, but U gonna have to look and possibly jump on whatever U can find. The biggest problem gonna be the E-Torque: The non-E torque R rare animals for sure. In TX, not impossible to find, U gonna have to do yer research, unless U go up to a 2500 and get the 6.4 Hemi and/or diesel. Are U looking for 4 wheel drive? They R available here in Central Texas but that would be a travel vs U buying in Ohio. I will post a couple of URL's for U to look at and U can go to that site and look also:

In Lampasas TX

Looking for a located in Lampasas TX

www.bennyboydcdj.com

In Lampasas TX

Looking for a located in Lampasas TX

www.bennyboydcdj.com

In Lampasas TX

Looking for a located in Lampasas TX

www.bennyboydcdj.com

In Lampasas TX

Looking for a located in Lampasas TX

www.bennyboydcdj.com

ADDED: U do know it is not just Toyota, all of the brands at times have issues and unhappy customers. I would neva buy any FCA product from the dealership in my town, I traveled over an hour into another county to buy MY 19. Posted URL's for a cross section of what is down here anyway for a comparison. The last one, the Longhorn is purty, but also 75K, may be why I stick with MY 19, LOL.

 

[Toymaker]

Understood - every brand has bad dealers and can have flaws. That’s just part of buying something mechanical.

I have no issue with these facts - expecting perfection across the board will only lead to disappointment.

My issue is how corporate responded - I’ve owned just about every brand and overall when there have been issues - all have worked to resolve them - some have been more accommodating (Alfa and Ford) - GM took a little longer, but Toyota acted as if it was impossible for them to have made a mistake !!

I’ll have to check locally - I’m sure finding a non etorque is rare - ordering may be the way to go. I don’t know - anyone else think I’m wrong in my thinking of wanting a non etorque/non air suspension limited (Longhorn only way to get this it looks like) - just 2 features I’m not likely to use and that cost a fortune if they go bad outside of warranty.

 

[HEMIMANN]

Go git a 2500 and Hemi 6.4L Hemi. They ride almost as good as a 1500 now that they have the coil link suspension. You'll never go back. I know I won't.

 

[turkeybird56]

Understood - every brand has bad dealers and can have flaws. That’s just part of buying something mechanical.

I have no issue with these facts - expecting perfection across the board will only lead to disappointment.

My issue is how corporate responded - I’ve owned just about every brand and overall when there have been issues - all have worked to resolve them - some have been more accommodating (Alfa and Ford) - GM took a little longer, but Toyota acted as if it was impossible for them to have made a mistake !!

I’ll have to check locally - I’m sure finding a non etorque is rare - ordering may be the way to go. I don’t know - anyone else think I’m wrong in my thinking of wanting a non etorque/non air suspension limited (Longhorn only way to get this it looks like) - just 2 features I’m not likely to use and that cost a fortune if they go bad outside of warranty.

Bighorns and Lonestars here U can find Non etorque and no air suspension. U could go to the dealer and look in there. I posted the Longhorn for comparison, but they cost U a pretty penny here.

 

[Toymaker]

I’ll check out a 2500

Cost - yea, their pricey - but it’s Monopoly money anyway.

I paid 16k for my 2012 in 2012, sold for 12,500 in 2021. Bought my 2018 in 2020 for 25k - sold 2021 for 42k - that’s just vehicle pricing this year.

I figure I’m “up” 22-25k in what I SHOULdD have lost but didn’t in resale on those 2 (1 1 was my my fathers old truck and the 2018 was my moms vehicle I bought back from her estate fyi). So if I pay 65k for a new truck - it’s like I’m actually paying 40k for it adjusting for the inflated returns.

I’m comfortable with 40k for a new truck - that’s in line with what “normal” pricing would be. At the same time - I get if someone has been sitting on sidelines saving for a new vehicle for a few years and has no trade or is a younger person looking to buy their first “new” vehicle. The prices simply push a normal person into either needing a huge down payment or into a 7 year loan (nuts in my opinion).

I remember when 60 months became the “norm” - my parents told me I was crazy financing a car for 5 years (and they were right) - young adults and long term commitments rarely go well together. 3 years in your half way paid off - barely any equity and wanting the latest and greatest - so re/up into a worse loan on your next ride. Cannot imagine how 72 month loans will look on some of the base model trucks in 3 years if supply catches up and exceeds demand.

Production is one of those things that cannot just be stopped (or started) rapidly. The rush to build more faster now may haunt makers in 2024-2025 and the price of used may reflect some heavy discounts if they need to move inventory.

 

[turkeybird56]

I think once they somehow get this Chip stuff sorted out, there are gonna be so many 2021's and 2022's out there on the lot, they be calling prior customers and begging them to come in and buy. They won't know where to even park all the new rides. Just depends if PPL can wait ref a new ride and not need one right now. All IMHO...

 

[HEMIMANN]

I think once they somehow get this Chip stuff sorted out, there are gonna be so many 2021's and 2022's out there on the lot, they be calling prior customers and begging them to come in and buy. They won't know where to even park all the new rides. Just depends if PPL can wait ref a new ride and not need one right now. All IMHO...

What goes up always goes down!

 

[turkeybird56]

What goes up always goes down!

Since I am from the NE (NYC area and such), there was always the old Empire State Building Joke. But, due to the Twin Towers catastrophe, just not PC to mention here. I will PM ne body who wants to hear it, but not post in general thread.

 

[Princeton_Man]

Go see the Ram/Toyota dealer in Mount Airy, NC. They're good people and if you can get the warranty issue straightened out, I'm sure they'll make you a deal and probably sell your Tundra as Certified Pre-owned. I don't know what that equates to today, but in 06, it meant something like 5 year/100K mile powertain warranty.

 

[Kenobi]

If you are seriously considering getting rid of it, go to a Ram dealer and get a trade-in quote. My '09 Tacoma got a lot more for trade than I expected, and they sold it four days later for even sillier money.

 

[Big Jims 1500]

Go to the Ram website and search inventory. Put in the trim level and goodies you want. If something comes up that lights your fire look at it on the dealer site. From my experience back in May this year nearly every dealer had a “what’s my vehicle worth button” that took me to KBB or Edmunds used vehicle pricing page. KBB 1k more than Edmunds on my 2017 2500 CTD Laramie CC. $57,600 on the the truck I paid $59,000 for in 2017. And that what the dealer gave me.

 

[Jsmurf]

Hey Toymaker, I feel you when it comes to your experience with Toyota dealers. Like you said every brand has good and bad dealers. I just sold a 2005 Toyota Sequoia Limited with 186k miles on CarGurus for $7500. It was easy. I ordered a 2022 Ram 1500 Limited 4x4 5.7 Hemi eTorque back on July 28,2921. It was delivered on November 19, 2021. I got every available option including the night edition. I don’t really tow anything except for the occasional landscape trailer. Extremely happy with the truck. It is by far the nicest vehicle I have ever own. My wife even loves it. So I take it that you are in the Winston-Salem….High Point area. If you don’t mind traveling south 6 hours to Atlanta, check out Ed Voyles CDJR. Talk to Mike Westlund. Tell him I referred you. He will take care of you like you were family. They do have a few new trucks on their lot and I am sure he will give you a great price on a trade of your Toyota. Best of luck.

 

[BuzzAZ]

I recently traded a Toyota in on a year old power wagon. Inventory is tight so it’s not like you can just go down the street and see if the next Ram dealer will make a better deal because they likely don’t have what you want.

I wound up going to Carmax and getting a quote on my trade, which was stupid money and higher than most were advertised in private sales. I used that quote to get the dealer I bought from to the net price I wanted. It takes 10 minutes online to get your offer and they didn’t make any adjustments to mine during their inspection, so it should give you a good idea of what you can get for it.

 

[Toymaker]

Funny you mention the dealer in Mt Airy - I actually stopped up there last year as one of the first Toyota dealers I talked to.

Had an appointment to meet a sales person - walked in and he was “wrapping up a sale” - no worries, take your time and I’ll see what you got on the lot now (this was Feb of last year - so they had some inventory) - 30 minutes of walking the lot and next door - he’s “still with a customer” - told reception it’s lunch and I’m going to run down the road to the Mexican place - tell him call/text me when he’s done.

Go down eat lunch and call back up - is he still “with a customer” - no, now “out yo lunch” - said thanks and left returning home. On the road for 25 minutes and well over 2 hours from the appointment time we made - get a call - sorry, just had to finish up a deal - you can come back now and I can talk to you. Said no thanks and kept driving.

Got to stop sometime and look local and see what they would offer. Local dealer here has plenty of inventory - but just something about their sales. Kinda rubbed me the wrong way when they started trying to 4 square me. I just told them - look, this is my “must have” we both know the sticker and incentives and there is really very limited negotiation- so can you get this for me or do you have one coming and this is what I will pay. Kept giving me a lot of “let me check with my GM” - I just said check with them and call/text me if we have a deal….I’m still waiting on that call.

I actually used their body shop and service though for a couple of other vehicles and they were great though. Sales is a 1 time annoyance - service is who I will probably deal with a few times a year for the next decade of ownership - so I tend to value their experience more than the sales side.