Cummins $1.6 billion dollar fine!!!

[HEMIMANN]

On top of this below, I'd express it in writing to not flash the pcm. Even then they can refuse to work on it, and definitely will if it is there for a drive ability concern. It would be a case by case scenario and depending on the tech.

View attachment 534240

Hey, is this a physical lockout that prevents using the OBDII Port to steal the truck, too?

 

[18CrewDually]

Hey, is this a physical lockout that prevents using the OBDII Port to steal the truck, too?

Yes, exactly. There are others offered too on the jungle site of course.
You could also unmount the OE OBDII plug and hide it under the dash, then mount a replacement "dummy" plug pigtail in its place for theft deterent. Imagine the frustration of the crook plugging in expecting to be gone in 20 seconds but gets no response on his tool.

 

[tjfdesmo]

So, I am picking up my '24 this week, and I wonder if it meets the advertised 420 hp and 1075 tq ratings ???

 

[Burla]

I drove a cummins professionally and owned a ram 2500 cummins and was proud to at that time, I would never buy from a company like this. Funny catering to them and they still fine you to the brink. I could careless, cummins is ruined anyhow. Buy an old one yes, a new one no thanks you. My buddy just drove this bad boy to arizona tested his milage he got 22.5 mpg going up there and 24.5 mpg coming back. Going there was uphill and coming back more downhill. Now that is a dam 12 valve and he uses it to tow his mini x to his job sites and as a daily. 12 valve 40 year old plus truck and it gets better mpg then brand new cummins? all they have done is ruin their name and their product imo.

 

[Burla]

Yes, exactly. There are others offered too on the jungle site of course.
You could also unmount the OE OBDII plug and hide it under the dash, then mount a replacement "dummy" plug pigtail in its place for theft deterent. Imagine the frustration of the crook plugging in expecting to be gone in 20 seconds but gets no response on his tool.
View attachment 534373

love it

 

[tjfdesmo]

I drove a cummins professionally and owned a ram 2500 cummins and was proud to at that time, I would never buy from a company like this. Funny catering to them and they still fine you to the brink. I could careless, cummins is ruined anyhow. Buy an old one yes, a new one no thanks you. My buddy just drove this bad boy to arizona tested his milage he got 22.5 mpg going up there and 24.5 mpg coming back. Going there was uphill and coming back more downhill. Now that is a dam 12 valve and he uses it to tow his mini x to his job sites and as a daily. 12 valve 40 year old plus truck and it gets better mpg then brand new cummins? all they have done is ruin their name and their product imo.

View attachment 534374

I am with you 1000% on the total wokeness of the company. Their press releases are sad and disgusting. As much as I think they have traded away the anvil-like durability of the 5.9, I drove and very nearly bought a 91 First Gen new, and I owned an 05 Third Gen, and a 19 4.5 Gen. While MPG in itself seems worse, and it is, the outright performance right off showroom floor is light years better. The 12 valves were @160(?) HP, my 05 was 320 hp/610 tq, my 19 400/1000, and 24 420/1075. They pull like a train. My 19 weighed @9300 lbs and got @16 mpg with 4.10 gears. Heck my 05 wouldn't touch 20 mpg downhill with a tailwind.

 

[HEMIMANN]

Yep. All their exec's are do nothing speech makers now.
Those that did the work were pushed out.
My son's college friend worked there 6 mos. and quit.
This EPA micromanagement of emissions even at startup is absurd.
They ran out of mission and are creating unvalued make-work to remain employed.

 

[Burla]

I am with you 1000% on the total wokeness of the company. Their press releases are sad and disgusting. As much as I think they have traded away the anvil-like durability of the 5.9, I drove and very nearly bought a 91 First Gen new, and I owned an 05 Third Gen, and a 19 4.5 Gen. While MPG in itself seems worse, and it is, the outright performance right off showroom floor is light years better. The 12 valves were @160(?) HP, my 05 was 320 hp/610 tq, my 19 400/1000, and 24 420/1075. They pull like a train. My 19 weighed @9300 lbs and got @16 mpg with 4.10 gears. Heck my 05 wouldn't touch 20 mpg downhill with a tailwind.

yeah if you need the tow capacity then you need it, for me I dont so if I go cummins it will be a 12 valve. I have my friend on the look out.

 

[Hemi395]

I would love to see the specifics on what the "defeat device" actually does to emissions. Are we talking about completely throwing emissions control to the wind under certain situations? Or a slight percentage reduction in certain conditions that doesn't equal 1/10th of a percent of the pollution lithium/copper mining produces for EVs.

The description is very vague and I'm sure thats on purpose.

 

[HEMIMANN]

I would love to see the specifics on what the "defeat device" actually does to emissions. Are we talking about completely throwing emissions control to the wind under certain situations? Or a slight percentage reduction in certain conditions that doesn't equal 1/10th of a percent of the pollution lithium/copper mining produces for EVs.

The description is very vague and I'm sure thats on purpose.

In 1998, the N14 engine advanced fuel injection timing when it sensed constant speed operation within a narrow rpm band range - i.e. - on the highway usage, producing higher NOx exhaust emissions than when in metro areas with varying rpm. Obviously, advancing the injection timing also promoted more complete (and hotter) combustion, therefore higher fuel mileage.

I suspect, but do not know, that there is something similar here with the B engine. VW also used ECM sensors to advance fuel injection timing all but when at constant rpm used for state-mandated exhaust emissions tests, thereby reducing NOx in the exhaust to pass the test. The industry wondered how VW could make their TDI more "efficient" than their competitors. The answer turned out to be - they didn't. They just cheated and allowed it to run in non-emissions advanced mode outside of testing.

To all you guys that are suspecting the same thing with the ISB engine, it may not be this extensive - it may only be a startup / warmup mode. But by the size of the fine, I can't believe that is all. For you guys rejecting the recall, be sure you won't get tested and fined in the future.

 

[Docwagon1776]

The $1.7B penalty will ultimately go over $2B in total write offs for Cummings and could drive the company into chapter 11.

I don't think you grasp the size of Cummins (not Cummings) and how much cash they generate. Net profit of $2.2 billion last year, expected to be about 15% higher for 2023. They have $2.3 billion in cash and cash equivalents on their balance sheet. It'll sting, but it's not remotely close to bankrupting them.

 

[04fxdwgi]

I don't think you grasp the size of Cummins (not Cummings) and how much cash they generate. Net profit of $2.2 billion last year, expected to be about 15% higher for 2023. They have $2.3 billion in cash and cash equivalents on their balance sheet. It'll sting, but it's not remotely close to bankrupting them.

Yup. The money they make producing the V16 for 2-2.5 meg engines for the data centers back up gensets is staggering.

Have some insight on that as I commissioned / tested them (and Cats and MTU's) for 12 years, in the factory and out in the field..

 

[HEMIMANN]

Accurate.

Yours truly led the design team and production of Cummins V16 generators. Our goal was set to sell maybe 60 generators a year globally at maturity. The 2nd year of production we sold 400 and scrambled to get parts. We spent several years doing nothing but making and acquiring parts to fill demand. These generators also went with paralleling switchgear and controllers made in-house.

 

[NETim]

I'm sure this won't be passed on to the consumers.

 

[JW2 Innovations]

Hey, is this a physical lockout that prevents using the OBDII Port to steal the truck, too?

Genos Garage has a lockout for obd2 port. Key also matches their diesel and def locking caps as well if you go that route so you don't end up with too many extra keys.

 

[ramffml]

Yup. The money they make producing the V16 for 2-2.5 meg engines for the data centers back up gensets is staggering.

Have some insight on that as I commissioned / tested them (and Cats and MTU's) for 12 years, in the factory and out in the field..

This is all very cool. How often do you get to meet the project lead (hemimann) for a major product you've used that long in your life, posting conveniently in the same thread as you. Here's your chance, ask him some strongly worded questions, make him squirm a little eh?

(jk, I'm sure the v16 is a fine product!)

 

[drmoreau]

The manufacturers simply can't meet these absurd CAFE standards anymore. It is intentional. The climate cultists are by force taking away our ICEs.

I have a 2020 Ram 1500 Big Horn ecodiesel 4x4. Under ideal conditions it gets 29 mpg at a steady 70 mph. I get about 16 mpg towing a 4000lb Airstream at 65. This truck has the aerodynamics of a shoe box! I am sure that manufacturers could get at least 25% better fuel economy if they applied the same aerodynamic analysis that airplane (or Airstream) builders do. I bought my truck for towing, so am stuck with what is available on the market. The big three all make their trucks look very macho and powerful - I don't care about my image, I am not insecure in that way. Form follows function. I would buy a more aerodynamic truck cabable of towing in a heartbeat if one was available.

 

[Burla]

I have a 2020 Ram 1500 Big Horn ecodiesel 4x4. Under ideal conditions it gets 29 mpg at a steady 70 mph. I get about 16 mpg towing a 4000lb Airstream at 65. This truck has the aerodynamics of a shoe box! I am sure that manufacturers could get at least 25% better fuel economy if they applied the same aerodynamic analysis that airplane (or Airstream) builders do. I bought my truck for towing, so am stuck with what is available on the market. The big three all make their trucks look very macho and powerful - I don't care about my image, I am not insecure in that way. Form follows function. I would buy a more aerodynamic truck cabable of towing in a heartbeat if one was available.

good news bad news, the good news is they fixed the ecodiesels problems, the bad news is it isnt available anymore. Woke cummins would rather have you in a BEV, and since they rule over us, we have no choice. My guess, they will be more aero.

 

[nlambert182]

I have a 2020 Ram 1500 Big Horn ecodiesel 4x4. Under ideal conditions it gets 29 mpg at a steady 70 mph. I get about 16 mpg towing a 4000lb Airstream at 65. This truck has the aerodynamics of a shoe box! I am sure that manufacturers could get at least 25% better fuel economy if they applied the same aerodynamic analysis that airplane (or Airstream) builders do. I bought my truck for towing, so am stuck with what is available on the market. The big three all make their trucks look very macho and powerful - I don't care about my image, I am not insecure in that way. Form follows function. I would buy a more aerodynamic truck cabable of towing in a heartbeat if one was available.

A lot of that boxy front end is to house the engines underneath, so not sure how they would make them more aerodynamic without making them taller than they already are. I can't complain with my 2500 getting 23 mpg at 70 on the interstate. That isn't bad at all for a truck this large.

If you want cinder block aerodynamics, buy a Jeep Wrangler. I was happy with 13 mpg bone stock and it wouldn't tow much more than a lawnmower.

 

[HEMIMANN]

This is all very cool. How often do you get to meet the project lead (hemimann) for a major product you've used that long in your life, posting conveniently in the same thread as you. Here's your chance, ask him some strongly worded questions, make him squirm a little eh?

(jk, I'm sure the v16 is a fine product!)

Hey - aren't you in Canada? Oh, that's right - we were global.
Never mind. Friend of mine from Cummins Eastern Canada Distributor was Benoit Parent. He might even by the Principle now, or retired.