Delving into the oil/tick/additive discussion.

[HEMIMANN]

Ok, we came to the same conclusion a while back, right? Esp. when @Hemi395 said his ticking stopped when he turned his MDS back on. That popped the same bulb in my head as the video guy.

I think he's saying that the MDS oil supply is machined into ALL valve lifters - not just the MDS lifters. This is the question I'd asked some time back. If this is correct, that explains it even more.

It also means there are two different lifters in an MDS engine.......MDS and non-MDS lifters. Now here's what I don't understand - he claims the MDS lifters fail most prevalently, which means the failure is not dependent ONLY on oiling. That means the MDS lifter must be bouncing on the inner springs in MDS mode a bit, like a floating valve, which eventually brinells and spalls the roller and needle bearings.

This would make a very complicated failure mode - the engine needs MDS lifter bore oiling system to lubricate the rollers and needles, but NOT the MDS LIFTER that bounces. And this would explain the success of converting an MDS Hemi engine into a non MDS hemi engine - as the oil valve plates allow oil to the lifter bores that have solid non-MDS lifters.

*BOOM*

 

[pacofortacos]

The only mopar filter I would consider is the SRT, the stock one isn't that high quality.

I had to take the engine cover off to make sure that I can hear the engine running it is so quiet

Any (usually synthetic or blend) 5-20 (except Quaker State - it actually did make the engine a bit louder overall), summer time I opt for a couple of quarts of any 5-30 and the rest 5-20, also add 1 quart 20 weight full on Redline Race oil. Best filters that I have had were the Royal purple tall filter and the Napa platinum filter (stock size though I wish I would have gotten the larger version).

Stock Mopar filter will give me a startup tick after 700 miles or so for the standard 3-6 seconds.

Oil changes are 3-5000 miles depending on usage. Towing the boat from western Pa to FL in the heat of the summer and back is one oil change as I consider that severe duty.

 

[pacofortacos]

"It also means there are two different lifters in an MDS engine.......MDS and non-MDS lifters. Now here's what I don't understand - he claims the MDS lifters fail most prevalently, which means the failure is not dependent ONLY on oiling. That means the MDS lifter must be bouncing on the inner springs in MDS mode a bit, like a floating valve, which eventually brinells and spalls the roller and needle bearings."

The lifter may not be built as heavy as it should be either, however I wouldn't doubt that the roller doesn't follow the cam all of the time when it is in MDS mode.
I think this is where the missing moly of today's oils is a deficiency.

MDS lifters failing isn't just a mopar problem, many manufacturers have had problems also.

 

[Burla]

The only mopar filter I would consider is the SRT, the stock one isn't that high quality.

I had to take the engine cover off to make sure that I can hear the engine running it is so quiet

Any (usually synthetic or blend) 5-20 (except Quaker State - it actually did make the engine a bit louder overall), summer time I opt for a couple of quarts of any 5-30 and the rest 5-20, also add 1 quart 20 weight full on Redline Race oil. Best filters that I have had were the Royal purple tall filter and the Napa platinum filter (stock size though I wish I would have gotten the larger version).

Stock Mopar filter will give me a startup tick after 700 miles or so for the standard 3-6 seconds.

Oil changes are 3-5000 miles depending on usage. Towing the boat from western Pa to FL in the heat of the summer and back is one oil change as I consider that severe duty.

for what it is worth, apparently the srt "spec" doesnt require full synthetic media. So some srt filters are synthetic, but indeed many are not, especially recent ones. See oil filter thread for more info, just last month we had two cut open with no wire mesh, meaning it is not spun microglass. You might still opt for a srt filter, just know it is not in the same class as royal purple/amsoil/wix xp as far as media goes. In my opinion a fairly important feature in any filter is the media.

 

[pacofortacos]

Thanks Burla, that's good to know. I haven't used a SRT filter yet and honestly for the price probably won't.

My hemi seems much more sensitive to a quality filter than the actual oil itself - but then again I do very frequent oil changes just due to the way I use the truck. Earlier this year, I had to do the yearly oil change (max care warranty) and the oil only had 500 miles on it.
I would have cried if it was a crankcase full of Redline hahaha

 

[Wild one]

Ok, we came to the same conclusion a while back, right? Esp. when @Hemi395 said his ticking stopped when he turned his MDS back on. That popped the same bulb in my head as the video guy.

I think he's saying that the MDS oil supply is machined into ALL valve lifters - not just the MDS lifters. This is the question I'd asked some time back. If this is correct, that explains it even more.

It also means there are two different lifters in an MDS engine.......MDS and non-MDS lifters. Now here's what I don't understand - he claims the MDS lifters fail most prevalently, which means the failure is not dependent ONLY on oiling. That means the MDS lifter must be bouncing on the inner springs in MDS mode a bit, like a floating valve, which eventually brinells and spalls the roller and needle bearings.

This would make a very complicated failure mode - the engine needs MDS lifter bore oiling system to lubricate the rollers and needles, but NOT the MDS LIFTER that bounces. And this would explain the success of converting an MDS Hemi engine into a non MDS hemi engine - as the oil valve plates allow oil to the lifter bores that have solid non-MDS lifters.

*BOOM*

I'd be curious about the weight differances between the non-mds and mds lifters.I never thought to weigh the lifters,but i'd think the mds lifter probably weighes a bit more then the non-mds lifter.That could contribute to a little more lifter bounce over the nose of the cam lobe,as the valve springs are the same whether it's a mds lifter or non-mds lifter.

 

[huntergreen]

Ok so I've given myself 3 strokes going thru the forums as a guest looking into how to best keep my hemi (2019 Ram 1500 classic 4x4, no e-torque) happy and smooth.
While I am overwhelmed by the science behind the use of different oils and additives and targeting products with certain additive packs and base oils, I've more or less developed a plan on how to go forward with the preventative maintenance.
First of all. I'm just a hair over 21,000mi. Most (70%) of my driving is rural state highways (hilly and windy roads, 45-55mph) 20% in-town piddling around/stop and go <35mph and 10% interstate (65mph+)
With a very small amount of driving being cold start to hard and or fast driving (volunteer firefighter).
Dropped factory fill at 1500ish with 5k mile OCI thereafter
1. PUP 5w20 and Fram Ultra xg10575
2. Shell rotella gas truck 5w20, Wix regular filter
3. (Current fill) Shell rotella gas truck 5w20 Fram Ultra xg10575
Been running 91 octane non-ethanol gas (from a top-tier station) since day 1 more or less
So going forward my plan is to keep the 5k mile OCI running PUP 5w20, Fram ultra xg10575 (unless I can find a bigger fram ultra or an equivalent with the same 99% 20micron filtration rate to keep all the oil galleys and solenoids clean) and 20oz of Lubeguard bio/tech per OCI
I know that the design leaves a lot to chance as to whether my valve train goes ticky and I have noticed it very subtle at times. Usually starting after a short trip, especially hot days while idling, and I've had some pretty loud clanking for 2-3sec after the truck has sat for several days.
Fwiw I'm not in a position to get redline from a brick-and-mortar nor shell out that kinda money for online sourcing.
Happy to provide more info and variables bit is there anything more I could be doing or things I could change to reduce my chances of having the valve train follows the dreaded path of cam failure.
Thanks, and sorry for being an uninitiated new guy

Unless things have changed, nick @got exhaust has the best pricing for red redline and free shipping.

I also use pup 5-20 andv5 to 6000 mile oci as well as the Fram ultra. So far no tick.

I’ve been running 87 corngas from Sunoco.

It’s controversial, but you might consider a catch can.

Btw, my truck owned since new,

2016 Quad cab 5.7 hemi 3.92 gearing 4x4.

 

[HEMIMANN]

@Wild one - yeah, by definition, the spring rate of the MDS cutout spring must be lower than the main valve spring, otherwise the valves wouldn't stay closed.

But - and this is the key - the MDS cutout spring rate must be higher than the cam lobe / rpm float parameter, otherwise the lifter will float and slam on the cam lobe, brinelling the lifter roller - just like we've seen with roller spall-outs on failed rollers that still test ok for hardness.

Since OEM's don't like using stiffer spring rate main valve springs than necessary (higher cost of course), you don't suppose Chrysler cut a corner a bit too tight for production tolerances, do ya? Because to make this double-sprung system work, the main valve spring rate must be stiffer than normally required if there were no MDS spring.

Kapisch?

 

[pacofortacos]

The main valve spring is a pretty light spring with the valve closed as it is - just around 100 lbs stock.

 

[Loudram]

I would leave MDS on as long as the truck came with it from the factory. JMO, but this is why

5.7 HEMI Lifter Failure Could this FIX the lifter issue FOREVER?

Hey guys, revisiting the 5.7 HEMI lifter failure video I made a couple months ago. I wanted to address many off the comments that I got from the last video, ...

youtu.be

Thanks for posting this video. Very interesting. I always turned off my MDS via the manual shift buttons but now I'll be leaving it on.

 

[grizzstang]

I don't buy it. Most people have no idea on how to turn the MDS off. Are their lifters not failing? Hardly.

I would speculate the bulk of failures are from people who have never turned it off just because they represent the largest percentage of owners.

What percentage of lifter failures are motors that have the MDS turned off all the time? We have no idea.

I turn my MDS off religiously and will continue to do so because I hate this feature.

 

[ram1500rsm]

110k Miles and counting. Oil changes when the message tells me so with Castrol 5w30 and Mopar oil filter. MDS disabled from week 1 and I bought my truck used with 30k miles or so.

 

[js12278]

I would leave MDS on as long as the truck came with it from the factory. JMO, but this is why

5.7 HEMI Lifter Failure Could this FIX the lifter issue FOREVER?

Hey guys, revisiting the 5.7 HEMI lifter failure video I made a couple months ago. I wanted to address many off the comments that I got from the last video, ...

youtu.be

Here’s another suggestion. Makes good sense as well. Higher oil volume

 

[HEMIMANN]

Here’s another suggestion. Makes good sense as well. Higher oil volume

Absolutely - as long as the seals can take the added pressure, more flow may help - unless - the gravity drainback of oil to the lifters is the restrictive feature. Then it won't.

 

[dgarber12771]

I don't think MDS has anything to do with the lifter failures. There have been plenty of cases of non-MDS 6.4's that have eaten cams/lifters and those come from the factory with those plugs, right?

The pre-Eagle 5.7's don't have this issue (valve seats are the weak point with those engines), so what changed? My gut tells me it's either an issue with the materials being used, or something related to supplying oil to the mechanism that enables VVT.

 

[gfh77665]

I don't like idling any vehicle when it's not necessary so I don't do the remote start stuff or using the cab as an air conditioned office to hang out in..

Man I could tell you stories about our poor old 2008 Tundra my department has. First, it never leaves the plant, so it only drives a few hundred feet at a time, never warming up. Then some (who will remain nameless) use it as not just as an air conditioned office but a lounge, hotel room, diner, and/or telephone booth, with A/C cranked wide open in the 95 degree TX heat for hours on end. They over heated it once and nearly killed it.