Driving habits reported to your insurance company?

[liedoctor]

I own a 2022 Corvette and discovered that my driving habits were being tracked and reported through their "OnStar" hardware, including what they consider hard acceleration and hard braking events. I disabled this in the app by unenrolling from Chevrolet "Smart Driver", which of course was turned "on" by default. A few of my friends mentioned their information has been sold and even ended up on their credit report in some cases. They literally assign you a driving score!

I'm wondering if Stellantis is doing the same on their connected vehicles (like the new Ram?)

 

[Deercamp]

Below is a portion of a response i provided a while back on a thread regarding Stellantis data mining:


Regarding privacy in contemporary vehicles, including our Rams, suggest you read article in below link. The authors (specialists in privacy risk assessments) believe contemporary automobiles are the greatest threat to privacy. Here are 2 snippets from that article:

Cars are the worst product “we have ever reviewed for privacy,” the authors wrote, calling them a “privacy nightmare.”

“All of the car brands were deemed as collecting too much personal data, while 84 percent also shared or sold data. More than half “say they can share your information” with government officials upon “informal request.” All except two — Renault and Dacia — gave “drivers little to no control over their personal data,” such as the choice to delete personal data.”

Here’s link to the full article, definitely worth reading:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2023/09/07/car-privacy-mozilla-report/

 

[liedoctor]

Great article. Thanks!

 

[RamDiver]

Below is a portion of a response i provided a while back on a thread regarding Stellantis data mining:


Regarding privacy in contemporary vehicles, including our Rams, suggest you read article in below link. The authors (specialists in privacy risk assessments) believe contemporary automobiles are the greatest threat to privacy. Here are 2 snippets from that article:

Cars are the worst product “we have ever reviewed for privacy,” the authors wrote, calling them a “privacy nightmare.”

“All of the car brands were deemed as collecting too much personal data, while 84 percent also shared or sold data. More than half “say they can share your information” with government officials upon “informal request.” All except two — Renault and Dacia — gave “drivers little to no control over their personal data,” such as the choice to delete personal data.”

Here’s link to the full article, definitely worth reading:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2023/09/07/car-privacy-mozilla-report/

Thanks for posting this information, I've always thought auto makers could be scooping far too much of our personal info.

As soon as my warranty has expired, I plan to snip their access.

I can't help to point out how ironic that this news agency won't allow me to read the article without first joining as a member and providing an email address.

I'll search for another article that I can read without a privacy violation but this is an important subject to consider.

'Wiretaps on wheels': Cars are probably selling your personal information, and half would freely hand it over to the government, report finds

Driver's license numbers, immigration status, health diagnoses, and "attitudes" are all up for grabs. "They are truly awful," researcher says.

fortune.com

I wonder how long it will take before the insurance industry justifys their access to this info.

.

 

[brian42]

You don't "snip" access. The truck is always connected and corporate is collecting data through their connection. What you are paying subscriptions for (satellite radio, voice services, vehicle status reports, remote app connection, Wi-Fi, etc.) is a separate bandwidth.

Stellantis Creates New Business To Collect & Sell Customer Data

Stellantis has announced the establishment of Mobilisights, an independent business unit fully dedicated to growing the company’s data as a service (DaaS) business and developing and licensing innovative B2B products, applications, and services. Mobilisights is one part of the automaker's...

moparinsiders.com

You can't turn all of it off short of selling the truck but you can opt-out of some of the data collection.

If you are determined you can find the instructions at www.ramtrucks.com. Scroll to the bottom of the page to the Privacy Center:



These links will start you through the gauntlet of opting out of what you can.

 

[Tulecreeper]

This why I keep the cord cut.

 

[RamDiver]

You don't "snip" access. The truck is always connected and corporate is collecting data through their connection. What you are paying subscriptions for (satellite radio, voice services, vehicle status reports, remote app connection, Wi-Fi, etc.) is a separate bandwidth.

Stellantis Creates New Business To Collect & Sell Customer Data

Stellantis has announced the establishment of Mobilisights, an independent business unit fully dedicated to growing the company’s data as a service (DaaS) business and developing and licensing innovative B2B products, applications, and services. Mobilisights is one part of the automaker's...

moparinsiders.com

You can't turn all of it off short of selling the truck but you can opt-out of some of the data collection.

If you are determined you can find the instructions at www.ramtrucks.com. Scroll to the bottom of the page to the Privacy Center:

View attachment 539716

These links will start you through the gauntlet of opting out of what you can.

I will figure out how to disable any upload abilities of private data and hopefully preserve my use of XFM.

You may assume that I don't understand the technology but you would not be correct.

.

 

[brian42]

I am not assuming anything and do not underestimate anyone's comprehension/use of technology. My apologies for the misunderstanding.

I am merely saying that you cannot stop corporate access to your truck. When you bought it you agreed to the telematics, whether the dealership told you or not. You can opt out of some of the data collection and sharing/selling that Stellantis is doing but you can't stop them from collecting data all together.

I due my due diligence to disable/opt-out of what I can to minimize my digital footprint but something is always collecting data (car, phone, etc.). I do enjoy newer amenities so have resolved myself to having a "file" that the government is adding to as it's not worth it to me to live off the grid.

I gave up on privacy awhile ago when, no matter what I turned off/disabled/opted out of, I still received ads about things I'd recently been looking at (including receiving things in the mail ). That and my wife has zero interest in managing her settings on anything.

I don't have anything to hide (except my cruising speed on the highway ) so I've given in. I do what I can and live with the rest.

 

[Deercamp]

Thanks for posting this information, I've always thought auto makers could be scooping far too much of our personal info.

As soon as my warranty has expired, I plan to snip their access.

I can't help to point out how ironic that this news agency won't allow me to read the article without first joining as a member and providing an email address.

I'll search for another article that I can read without a privacy violation but this is an important subject to consider.

'Wiretaps on wheels': Cars are probably selling your personal information, and half would freely hand it over to the government, report finds

Driver's license numbers, immigration status, health diagnoses, and "attitudes" are all up for grabs. "They are truly awful," researcher says.

fortune.com

 

[Deercamp]

Our founding fathers were on to something when they placed such a high value on personal privacy.

 

[RamDiver]

I am not assuming anything and do not underestimate anyone's comprehension/use of technology. My apologies for the misunderstanding.

I am merely saying that you cannot stop corporate access to your truck. When you bought it you agreed to the telematics, whether the dealership told you or not. You can opt out of some of the data collection and sharing/selling that Stellantis is doing but you can't stop them from collecting data all together.

I due my due diligence to disable/opt-out of what I can to minimize my digital footprint but something is always collecting data (car, phone, etc.). I do enjoy newer amenities so have resolved myself to having a "file" that the government is adding to as it's not worth it to me to live off the grid.

I gave up on privacy awhile ago when, no matter what I turned off/disabled/opted out of, I still received ads about things I'd recently been looking at (including receiving things in the mail ). That and my wife has zero interest in managing her settings on anything.

I don't have anything to hide (except my cruising speed on the highway ) so I've given in. I do what I can and live with the rest.

I think we may be on a similar page, I know that carrying a cell phone is likely broadcasting my whereabouts to a Google server somewhere but I can't sacrifice that convenience perk, not yet anyway.

I do have my cell phone locked down, I've uninstalled, disabled, and removed network access for hundreds of apps but I know that the few apps that I allow network access to, are capable of sending tracking data.

While the articles linked above identify the automotive industry as the largest violator of our privacy, I believe that pales in comparison to Android, Apple, and cell phones.

Your position is that technically, we are legally bound to stay connected. My position as a retired Telecom technician is that it won't be that difficult to physically remove the upstream data signal.

Regardless of any legal implications or technical challenges, the day that insurance companies start to exploit our wallets further, based on data harvested from our vehicles, will be the same day that I will be disconnecting my data stream, one way or another.

Once my warranty has expired, I see no requirement to send my data. I'm confident that they won't be pursuing a 5-year-old Warlock that's dropped off the map.

.

 

[stevenP]

I know back in my days of corvettes, and camaros. There was a lot of threads on how guys went to lengths to remove the onstar modules. Since I have a 2500 truck, I drive it like a 60 plus year old man would. Shouldnt be much to report there.

But if anyone at FCA, or stalantis wants to know the condition of my prostate or the size of my butt from the seat sensors, they are welcome to it.

 

[Kickboxer]

I think we may be on a similar page, I know that carrying a cell phone is likely broadcasting my whereabouts to a Google server somewhere but I can't sacrifice that convenience perk, not yet anyway.

I do have my cell phone locked down, I've uninstalled, disabled, and removed network access for hundreds of apps but I know that the few apps that I allow network access to, are capable of sending tracking data.

While the articles linked above identify the automotive industry as the largest violator of our privacy, I believe that pales in comparison to Android, Apple, and cell phones.

Your position is that technically, we are legally bound to stay connected. My position as a retired Telecom technician is that it won't be that difficult to physically remove the upstream data signal.

Regardless of any legal implications or technical challenges, the day that insurance companies start to exploit our wallets further, based on data harvested from our vehicles, will be the same day that I will be disconnecting my data stream, one way or another.

Once my warranty has expired, I see no requirement to send my data. I'm confident that they won't be pursuing a 5-year-old Warlock that's dropped off the map.

.

Your warranty has nothing to do with staying connected with Ram Connect,
U Connect or whatever. Just don't allow it. I would not sign up for that from
the start when purchasing new. Cancel it right now. C'mon man.......
This is not rocket science.

That being said, there is still the black box, and that is an entirely different
thing. Those are an "Event Data Recorder", and can be used in the event
of an accident to find out vehicle data, such as braking, vehicle speed etc. They have been in cars since 2014, and they do not report anything to insurance companies, etc. on a live basis. Only in the event of an accident to find out
which driver or car is at fault.

 

[markabby]

I own a 2022 Corvette and discovered that my driving habits were being tracked and reported through their "OnStar" hardware, including what they consider hard acceleration and hard braking events. I disabled this in the app by unenrolling from Chevrolet "Smart Driver", which of course was turned "on" by default. A few of my friends mentioned their information has been sold and even ended up on their credit report in some cases. They literally assign you a driving score!

I'm wondering if Stellantis is doing the same on their connected vehicles (like the new Ram?)

supposedly, On Star has an option where drivers can "opt out" of this, but, i have no idea how to do it or who to call. Maybe a dealer? or On Star itself?

As for Ram....I avoid updates (the ones you pay for) and I never use their app. Smart cars make dummies out of us. MY in vehicle SOS is off as well since i refuse to pay for sirius because i feel they grab too much control.

 

[metalchewy]

The only tracker I have in my truck is my phone.

Disabled the LoJack behind the dash when I found it after doing the AC evaporator and heater core. Sirius hasn't had a connection since I changed radios. So the truck is off the grid.

 

[tron67j]

This is why GM is eliminating Carplay and Android Auto, they want to control 100% of the data occurring as a result of using the vehicle including entrainment and maps usage. All about monetizing that data.

 

[markabby]

I think we may be on a similar page, I know that carrying a cell phone is likely broadcasting my whereabouts to a Google server somewhere but I can't sacrifice that convenience perk, not yet anyway.

I do have my cell phone locked down, I've uninstalled, disabled, and removed network access for hundreds of apps but I know that the few apps that I allow network access to, are capable of sending tracking data.

While the articles linked above identify the automotive industry as the largest violator of our privacy, I believe that pales in comparison to Android, Apple, and cell phones.

Your position is that technically, we are legally bound to stay connected. My position as a retired Telecom technician is that it won't be that difficult to physically remove the upstream data signal.

Regardless of any legal implications or technical challenges, the day that insurance companies start to exploit our wallets further, based on data harvested from our vehicles, will be the same day that I will be disconnecting my data stream, one way or another.

Once my warranty has expired, I see no requirement to send my data. I'm confident that they won't be pursuing a 5-year-old Warlock that's dropped off the map.

i was told the reason insurance rates have gone up is because more and more people are driving without insurance, more vehicles are driving "driverless", and more people are driving while texting. All of those cause more accidents. Additionally, there's some insurance companies that offer "only what you need" which makes them affordable, but never covers the full costs of accidents. Most people that have that type of insurance are usually non-home owners and most likely single. That way a law suit can't get much out of them.

it's like the increase of shoplifting..many people do it, so we pay more to cover the losses.

.

 

[markabby]

The only tracker I have in my truck is my phone.

Disabled the LoJack behind the dash when I found it after doing the AC evaporator and heater core. Sirius hasn't had a connection since I changed radios. So the truck is off the grid.

i never trusted Sirius.

 

[Tulecreeper]

If people would just stop buying vehicles with all the bells and whistles, they wouldn't have this problem. Low tech, low drag.

 

[Curmudgeon]

I never signed up for anything. No uConnect, no satellite radio, no OnStar, nothing.

And yet...

I had to manually change the clock in my wife's 2011 Eclipse for Daylight Savings Time, but not my truck. My 2014 Ram already displayed the updated time change.