Engine chatter upon startup

[HammerHead]

I’m going to bring the truck in but will keep the recommended oil in it. Truck is under warranty and I get that people feel better because they can’t hear a tick anymore after switching oils, but if there is damage already done a heavier oil won’t change that. It’s a bandaid fix and a false sense of security if the cam lobes are already scored and worn down. The pictures I’ve seen on here show damage to the lifter as well that can’t be reversed by changing oil weight. I’d rather have it go completely and let Ram fix it than just try to quiet a part that is already damaged.

Since your under warranty Document Document Document and keep all those videos. FYI should be more Audible from under the truck.

 

[Ohio5pt7]

Lol they have had mine for 4 months


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Had mine a week they told me today they should have it figured out by Friday. I hope so I miss my truck I love that damn thing lol.

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[HammerHead]

Geeezzzzz you guys, I’ve listened to all those videos and most sound horrible. I’m in my 3rd ram truck and I’ve never had startup chatter like you guys are having. This 20w oil epidemic is causing issues in my opinion. But I do understand warranty compliance; rock and a hard place for sure. Redline gets the credit for multiple engine noises cures, even seen the 5w20 Redline have success. Not sure if it has the MS oil certification but worth a look. Not sure if there is a thicker 20w on the market.
I would start doing Used Oil Analysis (UOA) from Blackstone Laboratories. Take a sample when you change your oil and send it in to be analyzed. It will tell you how healthy your engine is and how the oil is performing. Then go from there.

 

[16RamHemi]

the warranty issue is one to consider for sure. I was out of warranty so it was an easy decision for me. Lets look at this from another perspective. How many times have guys taken their trucks to the dealer with a tick to be told its normal? Too many. We all know that the motor should not tick like that. It is NOT normal (the hot tick, not lifters or normal motor noises). So now we are being lied to from the dealer. FCA is not going to do anyhting about this topic. Would cost them way too much money. They are obviously using the "push them off until out of warranty" tactic. IMO this is horrible service and they could care less about the product they produce. So....having said that, it is pretty clear that switching to Redline 5w30 (or whatever oil you want to place here) has shown to take care of this issue. Why should we, the one who bought, or are paying for the truck, stick with an oil just so the dealer can CYA? Why not change out to Redline 5w30 (or whatever you choose)? This is good for your engine....if you need to take it in for motor issues, drain and refill. Sure it may be $75 or whatever cost, but piece of mind knowing you have a good oil in while running it.

Why should we be 100% truthful when they are not? When we know we are only doing good, no harm, to the motor. I know its easier said than done from someone out of warranty....but its worth considering.

 

[J's_Sport]

Start up chatter that bad tells me your engine is unhappy with your oil selection.
What oil and oil weight are you running?

All 9 oil changes have been done at the dealer with Castrol synthetic blend 5w20 with mopar filter. Typically 4.5-5k OCI. I did order the Blackstone analysis kit to see how the engine is doing/holding up. The dealer did the last oil change on my truck 700 miles ago so I will wait until that oil hits 3k and get it out of there.

 

[DamnRam1500]

recommended by who? by a lot of people here, yes. by dodge? no, because of the MDS apparently and warranty may not be honoured if you use a "wrong weight" oil. if i was out of warranty and had to keep it, i definitely would be switching based on what people hafve said here. the exact recommended combo of the royal purple filter and redline oil...and see how it likes it. its sounding like you are currently out of warranty? if i'm misreading that and you still do have bit of warranty, i'd get the process started asap to investigate it by the dealer..and possibly another dealer if the first says its normal.

5w30 recommendation based on suggestions in this thread.

I’m at 47,*** miles so I have less then 3000 miles to get the manifolds fixed before the truck know out of warranty. If that is even the problem. I foresee “it’s normal” in my future.

My lease is up in November and I’ll be at almost 60k miles by then. I’d be paying over $3000 in mileage fees. That and I had originally planned on keeping the truck so I did a 2” lift, exhaust, tires, wheels, and other removable accessories.

I can easily get a cheap set of oem wheel and tires on Craigslist and remove my other accessories to trade it in but I’m not removing the lift and I’d still have to pay the fines. Plus I’ve been told my truck is only worth $20k even though my buy out is $24k so that’s $4000 in negative equity as well. So I’m stuck keeping the truck and buying an extended warranty.

 

[J's_Sport]

Mine was a lease as well and bought it after. My thought on buying was that I will not buy another new truck and I didn’t want to buy a used truck that I didn’t know how it was maintained. So with that I figured to just buy mine out since I maintained it pretty decently. Only issue I have is this startup knock that I know the scenario to make it happen. Drive home from work, park on the street, 2 hours later pull it into the driveway, next morning, Bam! There it is. I know it’s not a real market value but is the trade in value higher than your buyout? That’s the number I went off and not the private value since those are typically off.

 

[16RamHemi]

5w30 recommendation based on suggestions in this thread.

I’m at 47,*** miles so I have less then 3000 miles to get the manifolds fixed before the truck know out of warranty. If that is even the problem. I foresee “it’s normal” in my future.

My lease is up in November and I’ll be at almost 60k miles by then. I’d be paying over $3000 in mileage fees. That and I had originally planned on keeping the truck so I did a 2” lift, exhaust, tires, wheels, and other removable accessories.

I can easily get a cheap set of oem wheel and tires on Craigslist and remove my other accessories to trade it in but I’m not removing the lift and I’d still have to pay the fines. Plus I’ve been told my truck is only worth $20k even though my buy out is $24k so that’s $4000 in negative equity as well. So I’m stuck keeping the truck and buying an extended warranty.

look at it from another direction.....you mention buying an extended warranty...whats that going to cost you? not cheap. I kind of just went through this. i was over on my mileage to the tune of 2000.

if i were to buy the truck, i would have had to pay 5.5% sales tax. The truck needed brakes...etc. So i returned it and washed my hands with it.

If i were in your shoes, i would find a dealer willing to work with me. Biggest question is about turn in. It will cost you $495 to turn it in. Plus your $3000. if i could get the turn in negotiated / worked out where i was only out $3500 i would trade on a new one. Comes with a warranty (that you mention paying for) and you can absorb that $3500 into. There are deals to be made out there on both classics and new 19s. I bet with discounts where they are at, even with that $3500 you may get the same deal out the door as many 4-6 months ago. Just make sure the next truck is what you want for the long haul.

Do you really want to chance a truck that may have more issues down the road? Have you priced cams/lifters? Can be $4000 plus.

 

[buddy guy]

the warranty issue is one to consider for sure. I was out of warranty so it was an easy decision for me. Lets look at this from another perspective. How many times have guys taken their trucks to the dealer with a tick to be told its normal? Too many. We all know that the motor should not tick like that. It is NOT normal (the hot tick, not lifters or normal motor noises). So now we are being lied to from the dealer. FCA is not going to do anyhting about this topic. Would cost them way too much money. They are obviously using the "push them off until out of warranty" tactic. IMO this is horrible service and they could care less about the product they produce. So....having said that, it is pretty clear that switching to Redline 5w30 (or whatever oil you want to place here) has shown to take care of this issue. Why should we, the one who bought, or are paying for the truck, stick with an oil just so the dealer can CYA? Why not change out to Redline 5w30 (or whatever you choose)? This is good for your engine....if you need to take it in for motor issues, drain and refill. Sure it may be $75 or whatever cost, but piece of mind knowing you have a good oil in while running it.

Why should we be 100% truthful when they are not? When we know we are only doing good, no harm, to the motor. I know its easier said than done from someone out of warranty....but its worth considering.

there's logic there for sure..i have thought of that and agree on the extra expense being worth it, except i'd have to show what i did for the last oil change (that would have to be done by me or by instructing another place to use a 5-30 oil in it. that's the rub.

 

[Ohio5pt7]

So dealer just called they have had the truck for over a week to tell me they cant get the chatter to happen. The service writer is even frustrated because he said he knows it was beating like a drum when j came in. O well I drive it for a week and take it back again. I guess at least I'm saving miles on the lease this way *****

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[HammerHead]

I’ll be honest guys; over the last 10 years I’ve been to Ram dealerships in Georgia, Texas, Utah, Montana and Missouri and have NEVER had a good experience. Not one time! Always trying to screw me out of warranty work, looking into every little thing trying to void my warranty, trying to up-sale me on anything and everything, lying to me, laughing in my face and even falsifying documentation. They make it very hard on the customers, and the added stress you get when your daily driver is broke down and you have no way to get to work, pickup the kids and everything in between. Going through all that and fighting with the dealership to get what you paid for is very difficult and hard on the family collectively.
Warranty? What warranty?

 

[grizzstang]

For me it was a no brainer. I started thickening my oil at my first oil change just shy of 3000 miles. I was mixing PUP 5W20 with PUP 0W40 for one change then went to straight PUP 5W30 and now I run 5 PUP 5W30 and 2 PUP 0W40 and that is where I will stay for now as my engine is nice and quiet. I will time out on my warranty long before miles as my 2017 has around 18,000 miles on it currently and will be somewhere around 50,000 when my warranty ends. The cam failures look like they mostly happen around 100,000 with some exceptions. I would rather try to protect the motor now than hope the dealer will cover it later.

 

[Ohio5pt7]

So had the tick when I picked it up they called it Injector pulse hmmmm

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[WhiteStar]

I found this TSB from GM for the same problem.

Engine - Valve Lifter Tick Noise At Start Up

TECHNICAL
Bulletin No.: 10-06-01-007D
Date: April 10, 2012
Subject: Active Fuel Management (AFM) Engine, Valve Lifter Tick Noise at Start Up When Engine Has Been Off for 2 Hours or More (Evaluate Noise and/or Replace AFM Valve Lifters)
Models:
2007 Buick Rainier
2009 Buick LaCrosse Super, Allure Super (Canada Only)
2007 Cadillac Escalade
Built Prior to April 1, 2006 with 6.2L Engine RPO L92 (These engines were built with AFM Hardware but the AFM system was disabled)
2010-2011 Cadillac Escalade, Escalade ESV, Escalade EXT
2007 Chevrolet Monte Carlo
2007-2009 Chevrolet Impala
2007-2011 Chevrolet Avalanche, Silverado, Suburban, Tahoe, TrailBlazer, TrailBlazer EXT
2010-2011 Chevrolet Camaro SS
2007-2011 GMC Envoy, Envoy XL, Sierra, Yukon, Yukon Denali, Yukon XL, Yukon XL Denali
2007-2008 Pontiac Grand Prix
2008-2009 Pontiac G8
2007-2009 Saab 9-7X
Equipped with AFM (Active Fuel Management) and V8 Engine RPO L76, L94, L99, LC9, LFA, LH6, LMG, LS4, LY5 or LZ1
Attention:
This bulletin only applies to the AFM V8 engines listed above. It DOES NOT apply to non-AFM Engines. If you are dealing with a non-AFM engine that is experiencing a similar noise, refer to Engine Mechanical > Diagnostic Information and Procedures > Symptoms in SI.
Supercede:
This bulletin is being revised to update the Correction information by removing the non-AFM valve lifter replacement and removing the non-AFM valve lifter Parts Information. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 10-06-01-007C (Section 06 - Engine/Propulsion System).
Condition
Some customers may comment on an engine valve lifter tick noise that occurs after the engine has been shut off for at least two hours. The tick noise may last from two seconds to ten minutes.
Cause
This condition may be caused by any of the following:
- Aerated oil in the valve lifter body, resulting in the valve lifter being unable to purge the air quickly.
- A low engine oil level or incorrect oil viscosity.
- Dirty or contaminated oil.
- A low internal valve lifter oil reservoir level.
- Debris in the valve lifter.
- A high valve lifter leak down rate.
Correction
If the SI diagnostics do not isolate the cause of this valve lifter tick noise and normal oil pressure is noted during the concern, perform the following steps:
1. Inspect the engine oil condition and level. Refer to Owner Manual > Service and Appearance Care > Checking Things Under the Hood > Description and Operation > Engine Oil in SI.
¤ If the engine oil is more than one quart low, an incorrect oil viscosity is being used or if poor quality/contamination is observed, change the oil and filter.
Notice
Allow at least a two hour soak time between engine OFF and start up when evaluating the valve lifter tick noise.
2. Start the engine and evaluate the valve lifter tick noise.
¤ If the valve lifter tick noise is still present, replace all 8 active fuel management (AFM) valve lifters ONLY.
Refer to Valve Lifter Replacement (With AFM) in SI.

 

[WhiteStar]

I also spoke to some prominent aftermarket/cam manufacturers today. They told me the reason the lifters bleed down is because of poor machining which leaves a rough surface inside the lifter bore. This rough surface doesn't seal and allows the oil to leak out and the lifter collapses. I was also informed the OEM Hemi lifters are on a 7 month national backorder!

 

[buddy guy]

and are the new ones any better or is it wash, rinse, repeat?

 

[chrisbh17]

Who makes the lifters, takata?

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[DamnRam1500]

look at it from another direction.....you mention buying an extended warranty...whats that going to cost you? not cheap. I kind of just went through this. i was over on my mileage to the tune of 2000.

if i were to buy the truck, i would have had to pay 5.5% sales tax. The truck needed brakes...etc. So i returned it and washed my hands with it.

If i were in your shoes, i would find a dealer willing to work with me. Biggest question is about turn in. It will cost you $495 to turn it in. Plus your $3000. if i could get the turn in negotiated / worked out where i was only out $3500 i would trade on a new one. Comes with a warranty (that you mention paying for) and you can absorb that $3500 into. There are deals to be made out there on both classics and new 19s. I bet with discounts where they are at, even with that $3500 you may get the same deal out the door as many 4-6 months ago. Just make sure the next truck is what you want for the long haul.

Do you really want to chance a truck that may have more issues down the road? Have you priced cams/lifters? Can be $4000 plus.

I’ve thought that through time and time again. I still don’t know what to do. I can’t lease again because I’m going to continue to go over my miles.

If I got another truck I’d really like more then just a tradesman/express and every time I’ve talked to a salesman their numbers are still way to high for a purchase or even a lease. Come on $600 a month to lease a f$&@$& big horn? Give me a break.

That’s why I figure I’m better off buying out my lease. Lease buy out is $24k but it’s inky worth $20k market value. Whether is turn it in (goes back to leasing company) or trade it in (stays at the dealership) yes there is a literal difference. I’m still out $3-4000 in negative equity towards my next purchase which will severely limit my options for what I can get.

I’m going to inspect for broken manifold bolts myself and if I don’t see any, I’ll cancel my appointment and try the redline and RP filter. Since mine does not do it often that might be the trick.

 

[buddy guy]

any chance you could buy it out and sell for the same or closer to your buy out price? leases just aren't a good option anymore I don't think, unless you can write some of it off through a business. i hear what you're saying about the Bighorn. i had a dealer try to convince me i'd get my best payment buying a Bighorn. he says i can get you into one for 675 a month (canadian) not a chance. i got my sxt (express basically) for under 400 a month including some stuff i wanted to give it more options. aside from power and heated seats, i have everything i need except the huge payment.

 

[HammerHead]

For me it was a no brainer. I started thickening my oil at my first oil change just shy of 3000 miles. I was mixing PUP 5W20 with PUP 0W40 for one change then went to straight PUP 5W30 and now I run 5 PUP 5W30 and 2 PUP 0W40 and that is where I will stay for now as my engine is nice and quiet. I will time out on my warranty long before miles as my 2017 has around 18,000 miles on it currently and will be somewhere around 50,000 when my warranty ends. The cam failures look like they mostly happen around 100,000 with some exceptions. I would rather try to protect the motor now than hope the dealer will cover it later.

I think this is a great idea; even if you added 2-3 quarts of PUP 0w40 to the 5w20 you could make the recipes work for you to keep solid records for warranty. And the PUP 0w40 additives are much better than the 20w. Moly is between 250-300 ppm.