Engine tick question

[dkelly3103]

Would that be pretty easy to diagnose with just pulling off the valve covers?

 

[dkelly3103]

it was always running good till that moment it started misfiring then all it was / was the spring

Would that be pretty easy to diagnose with just pulling off the valve covers?

 

[Hammer22801]

Get that Lucas oil stabilizer out of there, it thickens the oil and go with the Redline 5w20 and Lube Gard Biotech 15oz bottle, with a Royal Purple 20-820 oil filter, report back if it quiets up.

I use the same RP filter, biotech, but redline 5W-30. My engine ticks for about 5-10 seconds at startup but then it’s quiet as a church mouse.

2019 ram 1500 classic with 80,000

 

[Chally72]

Would that be pretty easy to diagnose with just pulling off the valve covers?

yes as you can see the spring either broken or the valve not shutting all the way

 

[gfh77665]

I have always wondered, what % of RAM's experience this? Since its a common topic of discussion, is the number really high? In other words, if you buy a new RAM, what are the chances of getting the tick? 0.1%, 1.0%, 5%, 20%? Just trying to understand how pervasive the issue really is, thanks.

 

[ramffml]

I have always wondered, what % of RAM's experience this? Since its a common topic of discussion, is the number really high? In other words, if you buy a new RAM, what are the chances of getting the tick? 0.1%, 1.0%, 5%, 20%? Just trying to understand how pervasive the issue really is, thanks.

There has been no official percentage given from Ram, so anything else is guessing. I've seen estimates in the range of 0.5 to 10 percent, with one ex mechanic on YT (reignited) saying he saw different numbers depending on his location/state.

The number is higher than I'd like to see based on the forum reports. But FCA must have sold several millions of these engines by now, especially the 5.7 which is in Charger, Challenger, Durango, Jeep GC, Ram 1500 + 2500 etc.

When you sell that kind of quantity, every small issue becomes a big issue due to scale.

 

[Marmay]

There has been no official percentage given from Ram, so anything else is guessing. I've seen estimates in the range of 0.5 to 10 percent, with one ex mechanic on YT (reignited) saying he saw different numbers depending on his location/state.

The number is higher than I'd like to see based on the forum reports. But FCA must have sold several millions of these engines by now, especially the 5.7 which is in Charger, Challenger, Durango, Jeep GC, Ram 1500 + 2500 etc.

When you sell that kind of quantity, every small issue becomes a big issue due to scale.

Yes,with this massive production of hemi,5% of failed engines is a lot,it means more then 100.000 failed hemis,and FCA know about it,and do nothing, under warranty 95 % of this engines is ok,after warranty, who cares, this cost is shifted on the owner,its the owner pocket responsibility, not FCA anymore.

 

[HEMIMANN]

I have always wondered, what % of RAM's experience this? Since its a common topic of discussion, is the number really high? In other words, if you buy a new RAM, what are the chances of getting the tick? 0.1%, 1.0%, 5%, 20%? Just trying to understand how pervasive the issue really is, thanks.

I recall a Chrysler Technician in the Forum said his dealership encourtered ~ 5-10% of all Hemi-powered vehicles sold developed valve lifter and cam failure. This was some time back, can't recall which thread, or member. It might have been @Tach_tech

I have said, as a retired mechanical engineer in the powertrain industry, a failure rate that high is grossly unacceptable to any major manufacturer, who are striving for 6 sigma failure rates (1 in a million).

 

[Burla]

most hemi owners will take their truck to independents since it is about 1/2 the cost. so when you see the numbers that come from ram then try and add triple to that to count for those cam fails. If you ask me, too big to fail comes to mind. I think this issue would have tanked fca if someone wasnt protecting their budt.

nobody has complied with CAFE goals as much as fca, I bet that has given them all sots of protection.

 

[gfh77665]

I recall a Chrysler Technician in the Forum said his dealership encourtered ~ 5-10% of all Hemi-powered vehicles sold developed valve lifter and cam failure. This was some time back, can't recall which thread, or member. It might have been @Tach_tech

I have said, as a retired mechanical engineer in the powertrain industry, a failure rate that high is grossly unacceptable to any major manufacturer, who are striving for 6 sigma failure rates (1 in a million).

Thank you sir. Incidentally my daughter is a ME, but is converted to doing CE, bridge design and construction.

 

[gfh77665]

A follow up question, do any model years fare better or worse than others? Thanks again.

 

[quickster2]

most hemi owners will take their truck to independents since it is about 1/2 the cost. so when you see the numbers that come from ram then try and add triple to that to count for those cam fails. If you ask me, too big to fail comes to mind. I think this issue would have tanked fca if someone wasnt protecting their budt.

nobody has complied with CAFE goals as much as fca, I bet that has given them all sots of protection.

FCA bought more credits to satisfy the EPA regarding mileage than most Automakers. They have nearly the worst CAFE specs historically. These 5 to 10% failure rate numbers are ludicrous. They would of pulled the engines with anything near 1%. Basic SPC and their World Class Manufacturing Quality Pillar would of highlighted any widespread issue.

"Fiat Chrysler Automobiles has agreed to pay Tesla hundreds of millions of euros so the electric carmaker’s vehicles are counted in its fleet in order to avoid large fines for breaking tough new EU emissions rules". This has been going on much longer in the US as well. A quick search will result in FCA being the worst just ahead of Mercedes in credits purchased and banked.

I'm not saying the engine is not without problems much like any other. And yes, they do tend to concentrate around the valve train. The Hemi has made Ward's list of best engines several times.

 

[quickster2]

FYI
"GM is projected to be the lowest of all automakers in 2021 with a fleet average of 21.5 mpg for all its vehicles, just behind Stellantis at 21.6 mpg, with Ford Motor Co at 22.7 mpg". 2020 FCA was the "winner" actually going down .5 MPG due to mix.
"The report shows GM, Daimler AG's (DAIGn.DE) Mercedes and Stellantis all bought significant credits in 2020".

This has been going on for years. Most of Tesla's early favorable financial results were do to selling credits FYI. FCA has bought over $2.1 billion of credits.

 

[Burla]

FCA bought more credits to satisfy the EPA regarding mileage than most Automakers. They have nearly the worst CAFE specs historically. These 5 to 10% failure rate numbers are ludicrous. They would of pulled the engines with anything near 1%. Basic SPC and their World Class Manufacturing Quality Pillar would of highlighted any widespread issue.

"Fiat Chrysler Automobiles has agreed to pay Tesla hundreds of millions of euros so the electric carmaker’s vehicles are counted in its fleet in order to avoid large fines for breaking tough new EU emissions rules". This has been going on much longer in the US as well. A quick search will result in FCA being the worst just ahead of Mercedes in credits purchased and banked.

I'm not saying the engine is not without problems much like any other. And yes, they do tend to concentrate around the valve train. The Hemi has made Ward's list of best engines several times.

mds, vvt, pre heated fluids, higher temp transmission, grill shutters, just to name a few, all to "comply" with CAFE. They certainly have a ton of gov't in every hemi.

 

[quickster2]

mds, vvt, pre heated fluids, higher temp transmission, grill shutters, just to name a few, all to "comply" with CAFE. They certainly have a ton of gov't in every hemi.

Agree. They are so behind the curve for CAFE they have to try this incremental BS IMHO. Don't forget the BSG system. I'm not bashing them as they send me a decent pension check each month. They had to delay some items in the nearer term to become sustainably profitable. I still prefer my truck to the GM or Ford equivalent. I will say Ford seats are much nicer and comfortable but Ram has come a long way in that department as well.

 

[ramffml]

Agree. They are so behind the curve for CAFE they have to try this incremental BS IMHO. Don't forget the BSG system. I'm not bashing them as they send me a decent pension check each month. They had to delay some items in the nearer term to become sustainably profitable. I still prefer my truck to the GM or Ford equivalent. I will say Ford seats are much nicer and comfortable but Ram has come a long way in that department as well.

"Behind the curve"? Well I don't agree 100%, no other car manufacturer has so many tire shredding v8's in everything from cars to jeeps to trucks. All those engines are heavy on fuel and emissions so I'm shocked they're ahead of GM and Ford, what's their excuse I wonder.

Comfort is so subjective. I found the Ram the most comfortable by far, at least when it comes to mid level trims. Not just the seats, which are outstanding, but the suspension as well and it soaks up the road far better than the others.

Now if I could only push off the invisible fat man whose is bouncing up and down on the back of my bumper while towing ..... ..

 

[HEMIMANN]

FCA bought more credits to satisfy the EPA regarding mileage than most Automakers. They have nearly the worst CAFE specs historically. These 5 to 10% failure rate numbers are ludicrous. They would of pulled the engines with anything near 1%. Basic SPC and their World Class Manufacturing Quality Pillar would of highlighted any widespread issue.

"Fiat Chrysler Automobiles has agreed to pay Tesla hundreds of millions of euros so the electric carmaker’s vehicles are counted in its fleet in order to avoid large fines for breaking tough new EU emissions rules". This has been going on much longer in the US as well. A quick search will result in FCA being the worst just ahead of Mercedes in credits purchased and banked.

I'm not saying the engine is not without problems much like any other. And yes, they do tend to concentrate around the valve train. The Hemi has made Ward's list of best engines several times.

So you're saying the Forum Technician is lying? Glad you know him so well.

 

[quickster2]

So you're saying the Forum Technician is lying? Glad you know him so well.

Don't put words in my mouth. You know from your background a 5 to 10% failure rate would be unacceptable at many levels for an engine with several million in service.

 

[Burla]

I can say there is no way to win this argument, we will likely never know the truth. If it happens to you, luckily ram forum has some options other places don't.

 

[quickster2]

"Behind the curve"? Well I don't agree 100%, no other car manufacturer has so many tire shredding v8's in everything from cars to jeeps to trucks. All those engines are heavy on fuel and emissions so I'm shocked they're ahead of GM and Ford, what's their excuse I wonder.

Comfort is so subjective. I found the Ram the most comfortable by far, at least when it comes to mid level trims. Not just the seats, which are outstanding, but the suspension as well and it soaks up the road far better than the others.

Now if I could only push off the invisible fat man whose is bouncing up and down on the back of my bumper while towing ..... ..

I should of clarified my comment. "Behind the curve" was a strategic choice and even in hindsight has served them well. Thx