Engineering Explained Oil Catch Can

[Pull Ya]

California---I think your new Governor is worst than the old one----no problem on the catch can--I don't sell them--LOL.
Jay

 

[BrewCrew]

California---I think your new Governor is worst than the old one----no problem on the catch can--I don't sell them--LOL.
Jay

Its awful. I'm originally from Wisconsin. I am working on heading back.

 

[Pull Ya]

Maybe when you get home you can own a firearm again---
Jay

 

[Fitz-0518]

Brew, in Ca as of 2017 we have a two step smog inspection. When CARB went through the smog stations they suspended and/or revoked a ton of licensed smog station for many reasons. The majority of smog stations that they revoked were gaming the inspection rules and passing vehicles that should have failed and failed some that should have passed. Bottom line the State introduced new tracking software and designated compliant stations as star stations. At the same time, Ca required the smog tech to first inspect the vehicle. Any modification to engine or exhaust, stop inspection and notify to repair. Some techs know what they are looking at some don't. On my 03 5.7 I have a UPR CC. When I smog, I have it set up so that 1 nut and bolt removes it. Put the factory z hose back on and I pass every time. On my CAI I have a CARB compliant certified system that is exempt.

 

[BrewCrew]

Maybe when you get home you can own a firearm again---
Jay

Oh yea. I kept most of my Rifles at home with my Dad and brought a few "CA Compliant" ones out here.

 

[BrewCrew]

Brew, in Ca as of 2017 we have a two step smog inspection. When CARB went through the smog stations they suspended and/or revoked a ton of licensed smog station for many reasons. The majority of smog stations that they revoked were gaming the inspection rules and passing vehicles that should have failed and failed some that should have passed. Bottom line the State introduced new tracking software and designated compliant stations as star stations. At the same time, Ca required the smog tech to first inspect the vehicle. Any modification to engine or exhaust, stop inspection and notify to repair. Some techs know what they are looking at some don't. On my 03 5.7 I have a UPR CC. When I smog, I have it set up so that 1 nut and bolt removes it. Put the factory z hose back on and I pass every time. On my CAI I have a CARB compliant certified system that is exempt.

Thanks for the explanation!!

 

[Ram904]

The Hemi has relatively higher compression than many engines, and like everyone else has transitioned to short piston skirts and fewer rings per piston. The result is a lot of blow-by. Blow-by is unburned gasoline, and carbon and combustion by-products that pressurize the crankcase and have to be removed and "disposed of."
FCA uses vacuum from the throttle body to do that and all that swill goes right through your intake manifold leaving an oily residue, and across your operating temperature (hot metal) intake valves to be poorly combusted in your cylinders, leaving more carbon and yiltch behind.

My catch can captures 2-3 oz of that nasty yiltch every 2K miles or 4-6 oz between oil changes. I've got 80K miles on my Hemi. Without a can that would mean (roughly) 5 oz X 40 oil changes = 200oz or about 1.5 GALLONS of that filth would have plated out my intake valves and deposited in my combustion chamber.

So skip the can if you want.....its your vehicle.

Good post! The first thing that I do with every vehicle of mine is put a catch can on. I install one the first day that I bring the vehicle home.

 

[Wild one]

Its my understanding that there is a separator built into the valve cover to deal with this. Also i believe these things are not approved in CA so I'm SOL anyways.

You're thinking of the Hellcats/TrackHawks/Demons and Hellcat RedEyes,they use a built in Air/Oil separator in the valve covers.The supercharged Hemi's use the air/oil separator,the naturally aspirated hemi's don't

 

[RLJ10X]

Have you watched a car commercial lately? The engine is rarely even mentioned. But they go on and on about the size of the video screen in the dash, and how it's a wi-FI hot spot. Then they show the driver taking their hands off the wheel, and the car driving itself. Drivers can't be bothered with driving, do you think the average schmuck gives a hoot about a little goo going into their engine? The average person doesn't bother to put a coat of wax on their car, or clean it out. As long as they can make the payment, and it gets them places, that's good enough.

Putting a $100 CC on a vehicle puts that manufacturer at a $100 disadvantage right off the bat. The bottom line is money. Always will be.

For those of us that are enthusiasts, we make a choice not to run garbage thru our engines. Is it harmful to run that goo thru an engine? I can't see where your engine is better off being used as a garbage disposal.

 

[TXCOMT]

For those of us that are enthusiasts, we make a choice not to run garbage thru our engines. Is it harmful to run that goo thru an engine? I can't see where your engine is better off being used as a garbage disposal.

Amen to that...now I'm thinking my wife's Cayenne S needs one, too, although the topic is rare on the Porsche forums and there are lots of DIY folks on those boards.

TXCOMT

 

[DKSDonnie]

Its my understanding that there is a separator built into the valve cover to deal with this. Also i believe these things are not approved in CA so I'm SOL anyways.

First off, On a Hemi 5.7 the PCV system doesn't run from the valve cover. It sits on top of the intake on the right bank in the back off the engine. I put a catch can on my 2009 a few years ago and now I hardly ever have to clean the throttle body as it doesn't get dirty at all and (esp) in the winter, I drain mine at every oil change at 3,000 miles and it looks nasty like chocolate milk. It's a mixture of oil spray and moisture. I doubt most average Joe's who own a Hemi even know of what a catch can does never mind where it would be mounted. Most have never opened the hood themselves. I doubt most oil change facilities know what a catch can is. If they put them on from factory, the would never get drained.

 

[Lars Waldner]

Related subject sort of...
I have a 2003 Dodge 5.7 1500 that has had both the bottom and top end rebuilt (not at the same time) several years ago (25,000 miles). Truck currently has 175,000 miles on it. I am consuming about a quart of oil every tank full (roughly 300 miles). I don't drive it very often, and my drives are usually 20 miles. The only reason I keep it is on occasion I need it to haul a car trailer, and I own it. I live 3000 ft above town so my 20 mile drive is 10 down and 10 back up. I see no smoke at startup, or acceleration/deceleration. In fact I see no smoke at all. I just replaced the PCV valve which when removed, still seemed to operate (ball moved freely). How much oil consumption realistically be attributed to a poor PCV? All the other indications of a failed PCV never evidenced themselves (poor acceleration, inconsistent idle), so I cannot tell a difference in engine operation before vs after. My only way to determine if there is an improvement is to continue to check the oil level, and it is too soon to tell. So curious if members want to guess at how much of my oil consumption is a function of engine "age" vs a bad valve.
BTW, I do run a catch tank in a 1970 Porsche 911 race car. It is a vented catch tank that is designed to remove oil vapor than was not recycled into the oil tank. As designed, it rarely accumulates much...but I do check it regularly.
Had not thought about adding a catch to the Dodge till I saw the thread. Thanks in advance!

 

[Marshall]

I am like Lars, did not know I needed one, kind of like insurance I guess, I see the point, I guess, But never had one on last 4 trucks and they all survived, till a chev. ass h. tried to phone and drive at the same time. But retired now and in the city, so I don't change oil or drive very much anymore, so will not bother, I had one with 400t km on it and still run fine, just wanted to update.

 

[Hucky]

The Hemi has relatively higher compression than many engines, and like everyone else has transitioned to short piston skirts and fewer rings per piston. The result is a lot of blow-by. Blow-by is unburned gasoline, and carbon and combustion by-products that pressurize the crankcase and along with water vapor, have to be removed and "disposed of."
FCA uses vacuum from the throttle body to do that and all that swill goes right through your intake manifold leaving an oily residue, and across your operating temperature (hot metal) intake valves to be poorly combusted in your cylinders, leaving more carbon and yiltch behind.

My catch can captures 2-3 oz of that nasty yiltch every 2K miles or 4-6 oz between oil changes. I've got 80K miles on my Hemi. Without a can that would mean (roughly) 5 oz X 40 oil changes = 200oz or about 1.5 GALLONS of that filth would have plated out my intake valves and deposited in my combustion chamber.

So skip the can if you want.....its your vehicle.

 

[Hucky]

For those that think they need catch cans, you might need to know why. Catch cans are not necessary on engines that have port fuel injection, carbureted or throttle body injection. Catch Cans are needed on the few direct injected engines like Audi’s and some other manufactures. Many people don’t know what directed injection means and it’s where the fuel is injected directly into the combustion chamber and there is no fuel present anywhere in the intake tract and the valves see no fuel on them either. The fuel not running across the intake valves is where the problem is created because the fuel flowing across the intake valves washes the oil deposits off the valves and keeps them clean. In a direct injected engine the intake valves don’t get washed by the gasoline and get carbon deposits built up on the hot intake valves and these deposits can get so heavy that they can almost completely cut off the air coming into the cyclinder. The build up doesn’t happen overnight but around 75K miles it can start to affect performance pretty bad. I would say a catch can is a must on a direct injected engine and can’t see where it would hurt a thing on a non direct injected engine but if you are running good gasoline you shouldn’t have a problem with carbon build up on your valves in a non direct injected engine. Simple crank case breathers work great, also.

 

[muddy12]

The stock PCV set-up uses a combination of vacuum and crank case pressure to remove the combustion gasses(blow by) from the crank case.
By switching to just a breather, it’s going to be much more difficult to get all that stuff out of the crank case.

At any rate, the fact that my catch can keeps this stuff out of my intake, is reason enough for me to want to have one.



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[wutech]

I had one of the cheap catch cams and I took it off because I was loosing oil with it like crazy. With it installed I would be a quart low about every 2000 miles, with the catch can removed I have to add a quart at about 5000 miles. Running full synthetic on a hemi 5.7.

 

[Tim Garceau]

This will be a benefit for 2011-2014 engines that are suffering from cam/lifter failures IMO. You’ll find metallic particles/DLC in your can, rather than sending in to have your oil analyzed. Just a theory though, gives me a logical reason to upgrade my cam and remove MDS should mine fail early.

 

[muddy12]

I had one of the cheap catch cams and I took it off because I was loosing oil with it like crazy. With it installed I would be a quart low about every 2000 miles, with the catch can removed I have to add a quart at about 5000 miles. Running full synthetic on a hemi 5.7.

This seems odd to me.
The oil that is caught in the catch can, is what would have otherwise gone through the intake and been burnt in the cylinders. Simply adding the can in the PCV line should not change your oil consumption.
Out of curiosity, did you remove the PCV valve when you installed the can?


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[wutech]

I did not remove the PCV valve. Only thing that came out was the factory tube so that I could tubing in the catch can.

I thought it was rather odd myself.