EPA Rescinds Engine Stop/Start Benefit to OEM's

[HEMIMANN]

Here's a bit 'o good news for U.S. drivers.

I know of no one that does not hate this feature. Engineering study proves the feature saves gas, but at what cost? Bigger batteries, bigger starters, driver aggravation, etc. EPA hits a mosquito with a hammer. They should be funding sequenced traffic signals and such.

Now we are getting round-abouts every half mile due to uneducated drivers and unenforced laws. Then it will add even more time and gas to get anywhere on EVERY trip.

JFC

<end rant>

We Wondered What Automakers Had to Say About the EPA "Killing" Stop-Start. So We Asked Them.

We contacted automakers for their take on this hot-button issue (no pun intended) and got some surprising responses.

www.caranddriver.com

 

[tones2SS]

Good. Get rid of it.
I wonder how long this "ban" will last for. Neither of my cars have this dumb feature anyways, but if they did,...OFF every single drive.

 

[MeatCurtains]

This came up in my companies state of the union and 2025 recap earlier this month regarding all of the administrations fiddling with EPA regs.

Nothing is going to really change because everyone expects this to be recended almost immediately when this leadership is gone so things are going to proceed as they never were changed for the time being.

 

[MeatCurtains]

Good. Get rid of it.
I wonder how long this "ban" will last for. Neither of my cars have this dumb feature anyways, but if they did,...OFF every single drive.

My parents had a jeep with it. I 100% never even noticed it. Maybe I'm used to rattling ****boxes or something.

 

[tones2SS]

Nothing is going to really change because everyone expects this to be recended almost immediately when this leadership is gone so things are going to proceed as they never were changed for the time being.

Bingo.
Exactly why I had asked in my post. I don't expect this to be a mainstay. Hopefully, but I doubt it.

 

[HEMIMANN]

The article explains it takes years (~3) for product changes such as this to implement on the production line, with their long supply chains.

I worked in industry for decades, and this seems right to me. The only question is whether they will do it. Why? Because the rescindment takes AWAY money given to the auto companies (with profit) to put these on. Why wouldn't they start the process to remove asap? That's political - how likely is this decision to remain? That's for the CEO's to read their tea leaves. My put is if the rest of the world isn't using this and isn't likely to, U.S. auto companies will issue the change order to remove asap. Because they're only about the Benjamins, as we know.

 

[Docwagon1776]

I'm not a fan of stop/start but I doubt they get rid of it. Unless CARB gets ruled as unenforceable, or manufacturers want to do versions of their cars that are legal in some states but not others, they will continue to use stop/start for idle emissions reductions in CA and the states that follow CARB. The feds tried to claim CA couldn't set their own rules before and lost in the courts, so I doubt it changes now.

I'd love to be wrong on this one, though.

 

[HEMIMANN]

I'm not a fan of stop/start but I doubt they get rid of it. Unless CARB gets ruled as unenforceable, or manufacturers want to do versions of their cars that are legal in some states but not others, they will continue to use stop/start for idle emissions reductions in CA and the states that follow CARB. The feds tried to claim CA couldn't set their own rules before and lost in the courts, so I doubt it changes now.

I'd love to be wrong on this one, though.

Well, then look for manufacturers to raise prices + profit by the equivalent amount we taxpayers were all paying them to add this device.

 

[mtnrider]

Just like the loosening on Diesel emissions I honestly don't see this going anywhere. Like mentioned it will take years to remove this from the product lines, and given the almost 100% certainty that the next administration that differs from this one will surely reverse every one of these rulings I don't see the auto manufacturers jumping through hoops to make any changes.

Nothing will change....


.

 

[Grams]

Lots of Misunderstanding and Mis-Information on thiis. Start/Stop was Never Federally Mandated …. so “rescinding” it…. is just more political Smoke and Mirrors. It’s just more of the “Blame-Game” politicians play.

 

[Docwagon1776]

Well, then look for manufacturers to raise prices + profit by the equivalent amount we taxpayers were all paying them to add this device.

I think you misunderstand this for at least two reasons.

1) Nobody paid them to include stop/start. They just got a credit on the math formula that they use to calculate CAFE and it reduces idle emissions during testing since it shuts off during idle. It's not a tax credit, and since the CAFE fines are currently zero there's not even the possibility of reducing losses if you're exceeding those standards.

2) Underlying costs don't set price or profit, the market does. If businesses could just raise the price of an item when their cost went up then nobody would go out of business and no product would fail. Similarly, they have zero incentive to reduce the price when costs go down and give up that profit. They will always charge what the market will allow.

 

[HEMIMANN]

I think you misunderstand this for at least two reasons.

1) Nobody paid them to include stop/start. They just got a credit on the math formula that they use to calculate CAFE and it reduces idle emissions during testing since it shuts off during idle. It's not a tax credit, and since the CAFE fines are currently zero there's not even the possibility of reducing losses if you're exceeding those standards.

2) Underlying costs don't set price or profit, the market does. If businesses could just raise the price of an item when their cost went up then nobody would go out of business and no product would fail. Similarly, they have zero incentive to reduce the price when costs go down and give up that profit. They will always charge what the market will allow.

What is the credit worth? It is worth money. I know about credits - we used them at Cummins. They are worth calculatable gross margin.

 

[Burla]

If CAFE numbers were mandated, then absolutely this technology was absolutely mandated. No manu not named Tesla was ever going to meet CAFE, so they ABSOLUTELY had to include off cycle credits or face financial destruction. So technically yes they weren't mandated, only mandated if they wanted to freaking stay in business and not be fined a zillion dollars. Off cycle credits were built in by one side to allow manu's to meet CAFE they had zero freak'n chance to make without them. Part of the ridiculous scam was to allow regulatory carbon credits that famously had GM and Ford paying Tesla for their credits, betcha if they would have known what the CEO of Tesla was about to do they would have never done that, hahaha suckers, too late he got paid. It is utter ridiculous to have a system of payola baked into goals that simple were never achievable. About those CAFE numbers haha we were just joking, what we really want is your auto prices to go up with technologies that force more sales because they will break down. Volkswagen got 30 billion in fines, what do you think that was about? That was the US gov't telling them new fines will put you out of business, that was more then 1/2 the value of the entire company at the time. Whether mandate or passive mandate, it is all the same thing, your compliance is demanded if you want to stay in business, and soon if you want to draw breath your compliance will be needed.

 

[HEMIMANN]

I remember companies buying and selling EPA credits with each other - for MONEY. I know Cummins sold some credits to Navistar, because Navistar chose all combustion solution to EPA Tier IV instead of exhaust aftertreatment, which Cummins & CAT evaluated was not possible. So Navistar failed and had to play catchup, all the while sending out non-compliant engines.

What fun times the 2000's were. Damn near killed me as a Cummins Power Gen Product Line Manager.

 

[svo855]

I absolutely hate the stop start feature and won't buy anything with it if there isn't a way to permanently disable it.

 

[Burla]

I remember companies buying and selling EPA credits with each other - for MONEY. I know Cummins sold some credits to Navistar, because Navistar chose all combustion solution to EPA Tier IV instead of exhaust aftertreatment, which Cummins & CAT evaluated was not possible. So Navistar failed and had to play catchup, all the while sending out non-compliant engines.

What fun times the 2000's were. Damn near killed me as a Cummins Power Gen Product Line Manager.

No kidding Brian there are compliance fan boys that actually like paying more, or at least they say they like it. A small group of lawmakers have absolutely terrorized the US on auto policy, and unless something changes soon that garbage is coming back. None of this stuff would ever be voted in, only these scamsters can make these rules. How this admin killed start stop was no longer giving manu's credits for it, but sadly the credit system as a whole stands. Famously this year they set emissions fines to zero, but unless history doesn't repeat itself those scamsters will be back maybe sooner then later. They have an entire system where credit brokers get paid to transfer credits, lol.

 

[Docwagon1776]

What is the credit worth? It is worth money. I know about credits - we used them at Cummins. They are worth calculatable gross margin.

It's worth $0 as that is what the current cost of non-compliance is.

I remember companies buying and selling EPA credits with each other - for MONEY. I know Cummins sold some credits to Navistar, because Navistar chose all combustion solution to EPA Tier IV instead of exhaust aftertreatment, which Cummins & CAT evaluated was not possible. So Navistar failed and had to play catchup, all the while sending out non-compliant engines.

What fun times the 2000's were. Damn near killed me as a Cummins Power Gen Product Line Manager.

...and there were fines for non-compliance in those days. That's why Stellantis would buy credits from Tesla. That's not a thing now.

Tesla, Rivian, and others see billions in revenue disappear as US officially end emission credits

Tesla, Rivian, and other EV automakers in the US are seeing billions of dollars in revenue disappear as the US...

electrek.co

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) has officially stopped issuing compliance letters to automakers for violating fuel economy standards. This eliminates the market for credits under the Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) standard.

Automakers that didn’t comply with CAFE rules had to pay fines or purchase credits from other automakers that had a surplus, primarily those that only sell electric vehicles, such as Tesla, Rivian, and Lucid.

Those automakers would sell the credits for less than the fines, but now that the Trump administration has officially eliminated the penalties, it has officially killed the market for credits.

With the EPA reclassifying greenhouse gas emissions and CAFE fines at $0, there is no cash value.

 

[Schleicher]

So before I bought my 2025 1500 Laramie I asked my sales person if this auto start/stop technology could be turned off. I was told... Yes it can, and was shown the button to turn it off so I had no worries and bought the truck. Only after purchasing did I realize that it DEFAULTS to ON each time you start the truck and that I had to turn it OFF each and every time that I use the truck.

Does anybody know how to permanently disable this so called feature?

 

[BobinTX]

You might be able to disable it as a default using a Tazer DT device. Not sure, but lots of folks on this site use the Tazer DT to change all kinds of factory settings that usually only the dealer can change. Someone will likely chime in.

 

[graydon]

I have a 2025 1500 with the auto start/stop. I installed a relay that permanently defeats the system. Cost $105. Easy to install and works great. Company is "Autostop Eliminator".