Exceeding GCVW?

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MikeF69

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Hi I am new here thank you for allowing me to join. I have a 2018 ram 2500 with 6.7 Cummins and 3.42 rear end. I am looking at a 15,000 GVW 5th wheel and the truck is 10,000 GVW, the 5th wheel will put the combo at 25,000 GCVW, where the truck is rated at 24,000 GCVW. Has anyone here any experience with pulling more than the GCVW rating with your truck?
 

jvbuttex

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hope the weight police to come and beat you.

NO i dont have experience at this combo, i had a 1500ram pulling a 6300k trailer. now i too stepped up to a 2018 2500 to help with the capacity. lil lighter then you . so good luck. maybe look to lighter trailer?
 

dhay13

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A few issues...first you are over GCWR (obviously). Your truck is rated at whatever number (you say 24,000) based on the braking ability and a few other factors. You are now exceeding the safe rating of your trucks braking ability. Second, you are likely going to be over GRAWR which is a big no-no. Your GRAWR is probably 6500lbs (should be on the black and silver sticker in your drivers door jamb). Exceeding this number could lead to premature bearing failure or even axle failure. The only way to know if you are going to be over this is to hook it up and head to a CAT scale. Third, you are going to be over payload by probably about 1500-2000lbs. Meaning your trucks axles should not have more than 10,000lbs on them and I'm guessing you will be closer to 12,000. Check the pin weight on the trailer. Your payload is likely about 2100lbs or so. That means you, your passengers, and cargo in the bed, bigger heavier tires and wheels, etc and your pin weight cannot exceed that 2100lbs (or whatever your payload is). Your payload can be found on the yellow sticker on your drivers door jamb.
You are into 3500 territory for sure with a trailer that big. Not sure even a 3500 single wheel can even handle that legally. Can it do it? possibly.
When people on here label us as the 'payload police' they comment that 'well no cop will ever stop and weigh you'. Maybe not but I can assure you if there is an accident with serious injuries or worse then your truck and trailer will be scrutinized and your insurance could possibly refuse coverage because of this. Aside from the danger to others on the road we warn members of this because of the potential economic impact this could have. Imagine being sued for millions and your insurance denying coverage. Can't say for sure that would happen but I never want to find out.
Like was said, find a smaller trailer or a bigger truck. If you are towing across town a few times a year you would likely be fine
 

GsRAM

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Short answer is your in 3500 srw territory and possibly 3500 dually territory with that trailer. You may be over GRAWR, if so it's a definite no go. If you can stay under GRAWR, possibly you could attempt it, but as you state your knowingly overweight.

Diesel powered 2500 series trucks are payload limited due to the weight of the diesel. Ultimately your truck, your call, but I wouldn't.
 

tron67j

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Hi I am new here thank you for allowing me to join. I have a 2018 ram 2500 with 6.7 Cummins and 3.42 rear end. I am looking at a 15,000 GVW 5th wheel and the truck is 10,000 GVW, the 5th wheel will put the combo at 25,000 GCVW, where the truck is rated at 24,000 GCVW. Has anyone here any experience with pulling more than the GCVW rating with your truck?


Yes, these people.https://www.hardworkingtrucks.com/trucks/pickups/article/15046073/towing-accident-lawsuits
While these are business incidents, towing overweight is a recipe for serious problems. You could be in an accident that starts with someone else but the reconstruction team will find the weight issue and assign some of the blame to you. All that aside, isn't it better to get the right truck for the job and never have to worry about asking this question in the first place?
 

2003F350

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Yes, these people.https://www.hardworkingtrucks.com/trucks/pickups/article/15046073/towing-accident-lawsuits
While these are business incidents, towing overweight is a recipe for serious problems. You could be in an accident that starts with someone else but the reconstruction team will find the weight issue and assign some of the blame to you. All that aside, isn't it better to get the right truck for the job and never have to worry about asking this question in the first place?
Gotta spread this around some of the other 'can I tow overweight' threads...there's a LOT of people who insist it's not a problem.

Again, sure, these are business cases, but it's not much of a stretch to imagine that it can be applied to personal vehicles as well. If it's bad enough to warrant investigation, you can bet your insurance is going to watch it carefully. Just remember, insurance companies LOVE to avoid paying, and if you give them an excuse they 100% will jump on it.
 

crash68

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You are now exceeding the safe rating of your trucks braking ability.
You do realize that 2500s & 3500s use the same brakes, doubt he is exceeding the brake capacity.
The OP may want to check with the state he lives in, plating the truck with a higher GVWR(yes this is possible in many states).
 

GsRAM

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You do realize that 2500s & 3500s use the same brakes, doubt he is exceeding the brake capacity.
The OP may want to check with the state he lives in, plating the truck with a higher GVWR(yes this is possible in many states).
Yes, that is correct. But starting in 2018 some 2500s only received a 6k rear axle. As stated this can be verified via the drivers door VIN tag. My truck has a 6500lb rear axle.

If he's not over GRAWR, he could attempt it, but would need air bags for sure with all that weight. I prefer more margin than most though so that trailer wouldn't work for me in this scenario, but again OPs truck, his choice to accept the ramifications if something goes wrong.
 

dhay13

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I was a witness in a case once where 3 kids were hit by a car on the way to the bus stop early one morning. Driver was tired after working nightshift and tracks in the snow showed he veered left barely across the center line then back to the berm on the right side, hitting 2 of the kids and the 3rd knocked to the ground. In the end the driver was found to be 80% at fault, school district was 15% at fault and kids were 5% at fault (approximate numbers cause I don't recall the exact numbers). On the surface seems pretty clear driver was 100% at fault but the jury thought differently. The kids had no choice but to walk on the road for a short portion due to where the school district decided the bus stop should be. Bottom line is, do you want your financial (or even criminal) future to lie in the hands of 12 people you do not know? In my opinion better to CYA so you have the best chance at avoiding these types of situations.
Tried finding a link to the story but this was back about 1993 or 1994 so couldn't find anything
 

jvbuttex

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A few issues...first you are over GCWR (obviously). Your truck is rated at whatever number (you say 24,000) based on the braking ability and a few other factors. You are now exceeding the safe rating of your trucks braking ability. Second, you are likely going to be over GRAWR which is a big no-no. Your GRAWR is probably 6500lbs (should be on the black and silver sticker in your drivers door jamb). Exceeding this number could lead to premature bearing failure or even axle failure. The only way to know if you are going to be over this is to hook it up and head to a CAT scale. Third, you are going to be over payload by probably about 1500-2000lbs. Meaning your trucks axles should not have more than 10,000lbs on them and I'm guessing you will be closer to 12,000. Check the pin weight on the trailer. Your payload is likely about 2100lbs or so. That means you, your passengers, and cargo in the bed, bigger heavier tires and wheels, etc and your pin weight cannot exceed that 2100lbs (or whatever your payload is). Your payload can be found on the yellow sticker on your drivers door jamb.
You are into 3500 territory for sure with a trailer that big. Not sure even a 3500 single wheel can even handle that legally. Can it do it? possibly.
When people on here label us as the 'payload police' they comment that 'well no cop will ever stop and weigh you'. Maybe not but I can assure you if there is an accident with serious injuries or worse then your truck and trailer will be scrutinized and your insurance could possibly refuse coverage because of this. Aside from the danger to others on the road we warn members of this because of the potential economic impact this could have. Imagine being sued for millions and your insurance denying coverage. Can't say for sure that would happen but I never want to find out.
Like was said, find a smaller trailer or a bigger truck. If you are towing across town a few times a year you would likely be fine
very well put... ( i call you the police, because i know the generics of towing payloads, but cant always put the specifics like you did into words :) )
 

Gr8bawana

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I was a witness in a case once where 3 kids were hit by a car on the way to the bus stop early one morning. Driver was tired after working nightshift and tracks in the snow showed he veered left barely across the center line then back to the berm on the right side, hitting 2 of the kids and the 3rd knocked to the ground. In the end the driver was found to be 80% at fault, school district was 15% at fault and kids were 5% at fault (approximate numbers cause I don't recall the exact numbers). On the surface seems pretty clear driver was 100% at fault but the jury thought differently. The kids had no choice but to walk on the road for a short portion due to where the school district decided the bus stop should be. Bottom line is, do you want your financial (or even criminal) future to lie in the hands of 12 people you do not know? In my opinion better to CYA so you have the best chance at avoiding these types of situations.
Tried finding a link to the story but this was back about 1993 or 1994 so couldn't find anything
This almost 30 year old story has absolutely NOTHING to do with what the OP was asking.
 

dhay13

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This almost 30 year old story has absolutely NOTHING to do with what the OP was asking.
Not directly but the point came up about legalities so I shared how you don't want to rely on a jury when you feel you did nothing wrong. The guy could potentially lose everything by exceeding his limits
 

62Blazer

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The main thing that nobody has brought up is that the OP doesn't necessarily have an issue and seems to be a misunderstanding of what GVWR means. It doesn't matter that the GVWR of the truck plus the GVWR of the trailer is greater than the GCWR of the truck unless you plan on loading both to the maximum capacity. GVWR is how much total weight you can put in those vehicles, not what they actually weigh all the time. As long as you don't have both loaded to the gills and keep the combined weight to 24,000 lbs. or under there are no legal issues.
 

RamFP620

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Unless I'm missing something, the OP seems to be adding up GVW, not actual weight. Being within GCWR would be based on actual tow vehicle weight and actual trailer weight. Obviously in this case the OP shouldn't load up vehicle & trailer to GVW.
 

dhay13

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The main thing that nobody has brought up is that the OP doesn't necessarily have an issue and seems to be a misunderstanding of what GVWR means. It doesn't matter that the GVWR of the truck plus the GVWR of the trailer is greater than the GCWR of the truck unless you plan on loading both to the maximum capacity. GVWR is how much total weight you can put in those vehicles, not what they actually weigh all the time. As long as you don't have both loaded to the gills and keep the combined weight to 24,000 lbs. or under there are no legal issues.
Yeah I did miss that but even a 15,000lb GVW 5th wheel will still be in the neighborhood of 12,000-13,000 dry (guessing here) and will have probably 2500lb pin weight. He needs to know what his GRAWR is so he doesn't exceed that. I'm thinking he will be really close to it but I'm 'guessing' here. He will definitely be over payload by a bunch (meaning over 10,000lbs on his truck axles)
 

tron67j

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No one is allowed to modify the original certification label on a vehicle, and no private individual can modify their vehicle and petition the Federal government (it is not a state that can approve that). See 49 CFR 567.7. The bottom line is it is better to buy the right truck or reduce the trailer. Bags won't do anything to increase capacity by themselves, braking can be impacted regardless of 2500 or 3500 based on where weight is placed, and anything one does is only as good as the weakest link in their towing set up.
 

JayLeonard

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Yes, that is correct. But starting in 2018 some 2500s only received a 6k rear axle. As stated this can be verified via the drivers door VIN tag. My truck has a 6500lb rear axle.

If he's not over GRAWR, he could attempt it, but would need air bags for sure with all that weight. I prefer more margin than most though so that trailer wouldn't work for me in this scenario, but again OPs truck, his choice to accept the ramifications if something goes wrong.
My 2500 is 6040 lb. But I'm not planning on being close to that.
 

Gordo2212

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There‘s a good chance you’re going to be over your trucks payload just in the trailers pin weight alone (based on maxed out trailer). This big of a trailer needs at least a 3500 truck.
 
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