Fact Checking!!

[Poster]

Hello everyone!

I'm very interested in getting to know how many of you feel about the current state of the truck market. I will soon be in the market to buy a new/used truck, and just want to make sure I have my information correct. Also, there are some blanks I would like to have filled in so if you're able to make it through this whole post I'd truly appreciate any feedback!

I'll start with what I "know" -

Toyota - Highest resale value by far over any other truck. Buying used is basically the same as buying new. Not a ton of innovation in product line over the past 7-8 years, but what is made is undoubtedly very high quality. Extremely good V8 engine that is both powerful and reliable. Not great MPG's. TRD is reasonably good off-road stuff. No reason to get the 4.6 when the whopper 5.7 is as good as it is.

RAM - Tons of innovations in the last 5 or so years. Terrible resale value makes me believe unreliable? Used vehicles are much cheaper than new ones, even if only a year old. Also has a very strong V8 in the 5.7L Hemi. Has the best transmission in the class (the 8 spd), and also has the most economical v6 (pentastar). Has a lot of bells and whistles that are reasonably priced compared to competitors.

Ford - Best selling vehicle in the country since horses were the main mode of transportation. Tons of configurations and engine choices. Has a solid reputation for quality, falling somewhere in between RAM and Toyota. Does not have terrific resale value, as used can be found significantly cheaper than new. Has a cheap looking interior. Turbo V6 kinda turned the pickup world upside down with its popularity, but has some significant potential drawbacks in terms of reliability. Raptor is undeniably the king of off road production vehicles. The 6.2L engine has the most HP/Torque of any engine in the class.

GM - Not interested in ever purchasing GM

Nissan - Engine is solid, but as a whole does not offer any comparable value to Toyota, Ford, or RAM.


"Fill in the blanks" - As necessary on any above information. What are the main pitfalls to each truck (current generation, or in the case of Toyota 07-13 as well as the 14's)? I've heard "RAM's are garbage" but they've won a ton of awards recently. I've heard "800,000 ford sales can't be wrong!" yet they don't have near the resale value of Toyota, and are currently fighting litigation for their 3.5L ecoboost failures. As far as Ram is concerned, I've read/heard that they have some issues with their overall value. My father-in-law (F150 guy) says "As long as you don't buy a Dodge". I do not understand this line of thinking as I think the new Ram's look like fantastic trucks.

Thanks a ton to anyone willing to provide me information!!

 

[Poster]

Sorry for the double post as I realize it's not great forum etiquette, but I just wanted to point out that it is my opinion (completely aesthetically) that Ram makes the best looking truck with their CC Sport package.

Thanks!

Edit: In addition I have absolutely no "for" bias for any company. I am only biased against GM because I've been burned 2 times with extremely low quality vehicles.

 

[Z77Z77Z]

Go drive each one, make your own conclusion.

 

[BoldAdventure]

It's funny, but to me Toyota is just the same as Nike. Their products are not really superior. Mediocre tow and payload options and very overpriced for the lack of features that both Ford & Dodge are offering. But they've convinced at lot of folks that they are superior and reliable.

 

[Johnn123]

So you're on a dodge ram forum asking what truck is best?


In all honesty, probably best for youto go and test multiple of each brand of vehicle you're interested in. See what they feel like, and which one has the options you want. Terrible resale value on the rams? They seem to hold value better then Ford or GM in my area, that may just be based on your location.

You're quite correct on the GM's OP, I bought from an independant dealer and he said hes seen the newer year chevys just becoming lower and lower in quality. Plastics breaking, windows failing, just ridiculous stuff that shouldnt break so soon does. Plus, in my opinion, with the whole ignition switch problem, that just turns me right away from any product GM.

 

[jeepguy_1980]

Ram hurts their resell value because they offer such huge incentives on their new trucks.

If you compare the post incentive price to the used resell price, they're pretty close.

I can't speak to the current incentives, as I'm not in the market. When I was, I found that if you didn't like today's price, you could wait another 5 or 6 weeks.

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[NorthStar1]

You mention "terrible resale value makes me believe unreliable." I don't wish to start a shouting match so take what I'm about to say as my opinion.

Ram is the only truck on the market in which you can purchase a LIFETIME bumper to bumper warranty. Ford, Chevy, not even Toyota offer that. Period. Try to get one of those from Ford, Chevy, or Toyota.

 

[Andy578]

it'll vary a bit but around me GM(including chev), ford and dodge all have pretty high resale value. in fact i'd say dodge is probably the highest resale but they also tend to cost a bit more new

i did not bother test driving ford since i've had some bad experiences in the past so i can't compare them but i do have a 2011 silverado with the 4.8 engine and my new dodge really outclasses it in every way. the engine has plenty of power and the 8 speed transmission really is amazing. the interior was the big seller for me and also the more comfortable ride

 

[Burla]

Drive a Nissan and a Toyo and you will know the only thing better about the Toyota is the looks period. Nissan kicks but in the compact truck market, and I would be proud to own one. This coming from a guy who has a toyota SUV in his stable as well. I like toyo, just not the tacoma. Nissan are all pre runner style for free, toyota charges up the butt for that. I shopped both, I can say I have zero respect for Toyota after testing them both. I worked at a place that got 500k from their little Nissan Pickup, we all laughed that nobody could kill that thing.

The big 3, Ram is the only real choice. Truck of the year twice in a row and 3 out of 4 years for no small reason. Ford is a legit second choice and I agree, never GM and never Chevy. I do wish we had their tranny's, but that's it.

I need the Ram for the Comfort, I am getting old and have sore bones all over. But if I didn't, I could make a great argument for buying the Nissan. The crew cab frontier would fit in my garage and the Ram doesn't. I do prefer Ram for just about everything else, even the Penstar v6 gets the same mileage as the compact trucks, so unless you want a compact truck for a tight space there is zero reason to buy one.

 

[nolimits76]

It's funny, but to me Toyota is just the same as Nike. Their products are not really superior. Mediocre tow and payload options and very overpriced for the lack of features that both Ford & Dodge are offering. But they've convinced at lot of folks that they are superior and reliable.

Funny, I've used that same analogy. Same is true with Sony products. Not a bad product, but premium price for mediocre product.

Drive a Nissan and a Toyo and you will know the only thing better about the Toyota is the looks period. Nissan kicks but in the compact truck market, and I would be proud to own one.

Back in 2007, I bought a new Nissan Titan. IMO, it was the best truck on the market at the time. Great performance, reliability and feature set for a great price. Fast forward to today, and the Titan has seen limited updates/refinements although one is planned shortly.

Hands down, I think the Ram is the best truck out there. But then again I bought one and we are on a Ram forum, so take that with a grain of salt. Obviously you should buy a vehicle base on what you can afford, what you consider the best bang for your buck, etc.

Also, there is what I call the "feel good" factor. For instance, when shopping for a sports car a few years back I drove some nice vehicles. The 6-speed Camaro SS was impressive. But when I sat in the Challenger, it just felt right and I knew within the first 5 minutes that was going to be my next car. After that, it was just a matter of manipulating numbers to get the deal I wanted.

 

[Poster]

So you're on a dodge ram forum asking what truck is best?

Nope. Nowhere in my post am I asking which truck is best. I realize any product from any manufacturer on any continent will have opinionated followers and prejudiced detractors. I'm not interested in someone making up my mind for me with "Found on road dead" or "Don't send your money to the ****". I'm looking for factual information from people that have actually owned the vehicles.

There is only so much one can learn from reading/watching reviews and product demonstrations.

To Z77Z77Z - While your "go and test drive them and make up your own mind" is incredibly sound advice for someone that is about to make a purchase (almost seems too obvious, yet people do not do this for some reason), that is not the intention of my OP. I want to know if what I know about Ram trucks is actually accurate... from people that actually own Ram trucks.

To the guy/gal that compared Toyota to Nike - I do not see that as a remotely tangible argument. Nike holds 80 percent of the basketball shoe market (the market they make the most money in). This would be much more akin to Ford, not Toyota (as they only have roughly 13% of the truck market).

To anyone debating the legitimacy of the resale values - While it may fluctuate some on a local level, the national averages are what concern me. Ram falls lower than Toyota and Ford, sorry but it is what it is. I just want to know why.

 

[jeepguy_1980]

Ram falls lower than Toyota and Ford, sorry but it is what it is. I just want to know why.

When you compare resell values, you should factor what people actually paid, and not the sticker.

Toyota traditionally has little to no incentives. Ram typically has $7,000-$10,000 in incentives. People aren't going to pay more for a used than the same truck is new.

This means that any truck you drive off the lot is immediately going to lose $7-10k off sticker value, plus the standard depreciation of 20% or so.

That means a truck with a $45k sticker might only be worth $29k on the used market.

This is going to make Toyota look better on the resell market.


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[DavidRam]

I mean this in a nice and respectful way: You are not going to get very far if you ask for opinions, then criticize the opinions that are shared...


I agree with you that they are the best looking trucks on the market. One thing that hasn't been mentioned is the "fun factor." I have owned three F150s, one Titan, and now my second Ram. For me, the Rams have been by far the most fun to drive compared to the others. Just my .02

 

[clark123456]

I owned an '07 tundra 5.7 2wd crew max...awesome truck. Horrible gas mileage (I got 13.5mpg in mixed driving; 9 mpg towing a 7k load). Due to reliability, if I were getting a gasser I would get a Toyota again, but 4wd. They lack bells and whistles, but they are awesome when you only have to do gas, oil, and transmission fluid in the first 4 years of ownership. I did have to change the water pump at around 90k miles and I changed the transmission fluid every 40k miles. I traded it on the ram with 105k miles and got $14k for the trade (carmax offered $15k).

I was a pro-Ford guy and anti-gm guy. I ended up with the ram hd.

The Ford interior is inferior, the steering was very loose, but it had great power (hd diesel). They would not deal at all, so the combination of concerns about their diesel with no price negotiation put them out of contention.

The gm was the best riding, best designed interior of the bunch (with exception to no rear air vents), but they would not deal as much as ram and the ride comfort was not worth an extra $4k.

Do not misunderstand me...the ram is a very nice vehicle and I am completely satisfied, but I will trade reliability over creature comforts, so the tundra would be my choice for a non-hd gasser.

I have a co-worker with the first model year 4th gen ram 1500 that has 75k miles on his 5.7l with no major issues.

You should go drive them all, even the gm family stuff. The gm will surprise you. I would probably drive past the Nissan dealership.

 

[Poster]

When you compare resell values, you should factor what people actually paid, and not the sticker.

Toyota traditionally has little to no incentives. Ram typically has $7,000-$10,000 in incentives. People aren't going to pay more for a used than the same truck is new.

This means that any truck you drive off the lot is immediately going to lose $7-10k off sticker value, plus the standard depreciation of 20% or so.

Good points, not something I had considered!

 

[clark123456]

I do think jeepguy nailed the reason for the lower used value. The purchase price on my Ram was lower than any competitive vehicle, by several thousand dollars.

Regarding a logical question of, "why was the purchase price lower"?...i believe ram does not have the loyalty of the other brands, so ram has to be the low cost leader to stay in the market.

 

[Poster]

I do think jeepguy nailed the reason for the lower used value. The purchase price on my Ram was lower than any competitive vehicle, by several thousand dollars.

Regarding a logical question of, "why was the purchase price lower"?...i believe ram does not have the loyalty of the other brands, so ram has to be the low cost leader to stay in the market.

Thank you for this helpful tidbit. This is something that would seem logical to me, and for that I now have a reason for lower prices other than "unreliable".

 

[MiRamDriver]

The purchase price argument hit the nail on the head. I bought my last Ram that stickered at $45k for $36k OTD and traded it in 4 years later for $26,500 and it needed $3k in repairs.

My 2014 Stickered for $51,800 and I paid $42,500 OTD.

 

[Poster]

Cars for Sale: 2014 RAM 1500 4x4 Crew Cab in Elkhorn, WI 53121: Truck Details - 374966355 - AutoTrader.com

Does that look like a good deal for a CC 4x4?

 

[jeepguy_1980]

Thank you for this helpful tidbit. This is something that would seem logical to me, and for that I now have a reason for lower prices other than "unreliable".

Ram/Chrysler has a troubled history. They made crap cars in the 80s. They had to be bailed out. They kept making crap cars. Then they were bought by Mercedes Benz. They made decent cars and started building a name and cool factor.

Then Mercedes sold most of their stake to an investment firm. Chrysler continued to fail financially. The government bailed them out, but only if another company would take them over. The government didn't have enough faith in Chrysler to stand their own. So they bailed them out and practically gave Chrysler to Fiat for nothing.

That history is sure to shake many potentially buyers.



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