First Crew Cab Build...Dreaded Rear Fill ?

[Cummins H.O.]

Hey guys,

Thought I might be able to draw on some experience and knowledge here.

My previous two systems were in a 2-door car and a regular cab truck, so i have zero experience with rear fill.

I have been reading different thoughts and opinions for the past week. Seems like for every person that says ditch it, there's another person that says don't. I know its generally personal preference, but I dont have any experience with crew cab setups.

I have the front split bench seat, and have the middle console down 99% of the time when I drive. The head unit I'm going to go with has some pretty decent tuning/EQ capabilities..not active however. Kenwood kdc-x998. If I did go with something in the rears they would be getting some amplification. I will have 6.5's/tweets up front. Initially I thought I would maybe skip the rears and replace the 3.5 stocks with something decent. But it seems for a 3 way setup, most everyone says you need to run active...other wise it will garbage your front stage due to the lack of tuning...I guess?


So I guess...just maybe looking for some experiences with your crew/quad cab setups.

Thanks

 

[Etroze86]

All on personal preference, I don't want rear fill in my truck but its a reg cab so not needed at all. With proper processing it can be worth it to run it but its not easy to tune unless you use a jbl ms8. I also think if you run everything passively put mid and tweet in the door than a quality 3.5 up top. If you go active move the tweet to the dash and run a 2way as it is easier to tune to begin with.

 

[ramdude916]

I added new speakers to my rear and if I could do it again I'd probably invest on better speakers for the front and ditch the rear. At times I feel like it takes away from the front stage and find myself fading to the front to get rid of the sound. The only reason I considered it is because my son sits in the back and I wanted him to have decent sound without having to blast them up front.

Sent from my KFTHWI using Tapatalk

 

[autokraftgt]

If your rear fill creates a nice ambiance, then you've done it correctly. If you can hear your rear speakers and it takes away from your front stage, you've done it wrong. Creating ambiance and drawing attention to the rear speakers is a very fine line. I've heard wonderful systems with rear fill (barely notice its there) and i've heard high dollar system get ruined by over powered rear fill.
I do not run rear fill, but you'd never ever know that i do not. I do not miss it, my back seat passengers do not miss it, so its money saved and makes tuning a whole lot easier.

 

[Cummins H.O.]

Appreciate the insight. Wish I could listen to something with properly tuned rear fill vs something with out. Maybe better to just invest the money elsewhere.


I'm still a little confused on how I would do the 6.5 comps and 3.5's. Would they need to be tuned separately from the Component woofers? Or would I just throw them in and run them off the Kenwood HU? Some folks over at DIYMA said that I would need to run active to do it properly. I think they would "share" the crossover setting for "Front" channel XO on the HU....is that correct?

 

[Little Red]

Appreciate the insight. Wish I could listen to something with properly tuned rear fill vs something with out. Maybe better to just invest the money elsewhere.


I'm still a little confused on how I would do the 6.5 comps and 3.5's. Would they need to be tuned separately from the Component woofers? Or would I just throw them in and run them off the Kenwood HU? Some folks over at DIYMA said that I would need to run active to do it properly. I think they would "share" the crossover setting for "Front" channel XO on the HU....is that correct?

You could ditch the 3.5's, and use that location for your tweeters. I've read a couple google'd threads on doing this, and none of those who did it, had a complaint with the sound quality.

 

[Cummins H.O.]

Thanks for the idea Red.

Before installing, I was planning on taping them to the sail's, and then trying them where the 3.5's go to see what sounds better.

 

[troutspinner]

If your rear fill creates a nice ambiance, then you've done it correctly. If you can hear your rear speakers and it takes away from your front stage, you've done it wrong. Creating ambiance and drawing attention to the rear speakers is a very fine line. I've heard wonderful systems with rear fill (barely notice its there) and i've heard high dollar system get ruined by over powered rear fill.

autokraftgt nailed this with "fine line". For your build and IMO, I would focus on your front setup first in a component configuration as well as your sub(s) and bring them together. After a few weeks of listening, if you feel that something is missing, then you can consider rear fill as well as 3.5’s in the dash. This approach will still give you a great listening experience and allow you to add to it as your budget allows.

I personally am creating rear fill in my crew cab. I have setup this configuration before and my ears tell me that I need it. Note that I said “my ears”, this is a very personal thing and no matter how you configure your system, it will never please everyone, your focus is you! For me, I need to hear sounds roll around the cabin. It is hard to explain but for example, play Mr. Roboto by Styx, at about 45 seconds in, you will hear a drum roll. The drum roll should be left front, left rear, right rear, right front and be very distinctive. If you think you hear it, you’re not hearing it, it should be VERY telling and when you hear it in a system with proper fill, you’ll grin ear to ear.

As for active…….don’t sweat that term, active in simple terms means that you are able to control every set of speakers by either your HU, amp, DSP or mini-DSP. Just because your HU cannot do active, it is not to say that you cannot add a device to control individual sets of speakers. As you gain experience with what your ears like, you can decide if you want and/or need that control. Personally, I don’t mind a comp/tweeter combo with a good crossover for the front. Because we have the ability to add a 3 1/2” in the dash helps us with that extra in-between sound and lifting the stage in vocals and mid-frequency instruments (if we feel we need it) but this is something that can be added later and will not affect your initial investment.

 

[B-Shot]

Rear fill is only useful to entertain rear passengers(if you have a proper front stage and sub stage) but if you do want a rear stage make sure to run them in mono and if you have the option on the x998 run the rears on a -20ms delay, I have not used the x998 so I dont know the options you have.
What are your goals?
What is your budget?
How long do you plan to keep your truck?
just some questions to think about and awnser so others may help you better.

 

[Cummins H.O.]

Thanks for the info/insight.

Think I will just focus on the front stage at this point and the single sub in a fox box. I was going to have 2 unused channels on my 4 CH Alpine, so I was debating using those for rear fill. The x998 has a 13 band EQ, TA, and some DSP settings. Here is a link to the manual. http://manual.kenwood.com/files/IM381_Ref_K_en_00.pdf

Plan on keeping the truck for a long time. Have only had it about a couple years. I travel quite a bit for work, so I dont drive my truck every day. But the stock system is just...terrible. I think my end goal will probably running an active 3 way front stage, but that will be down the line sometime. I've heard a couple systems like that...and man o man do they sound incredible.


One other question I thought of. I was just planning on buying the same speaker brackets that troutspinner snagged for his comps. Besides throwing some sound dampening behind the 6.5's where it will fit...do you guys do anything else to the setup to capture better sound? Seal around the speaker bracket with silicone...or anything like that?

 

[troutspinner]

do you guys do anything else to the setup to capture better sound? Seal around the speaker bracket with silicone...or anything like that?

I do not. Creating a solid surface mount is the most important thing to get the best performance out of the speaker so it does not flex and then some deadening.

Some people use foam rings to block the space between the speaker and the door panel to direct all of the sound from the speaker into the cab. I've never done that myself so I can't comment on the benefits but might be something to read up on if you want.

I was running a DNX691HD in my last truck with the same abilities as your HU and it was impressive to say the least, I know you will like it. To make it easy, do not use any of the x-overs in your amp. Set your gains and then configure your car configuration, speakers and control your x-overs and slopes from the HU. You will be impressed with how quickly you get it sounding good.

You can still mess with x-overs and slopes on your amp but there is a theory behind doubling up on slopes and unless you understand the theory, it's just easier and safer to do from the HU.

 

[Cummins H.O.]

Appreciate the heads up. Ya...all the audio theory is over my head. I try and do some reading over @ DIYMA, some pretty educated audiophiles over there. Seems like a few smart guys here too.

Excited to get the process rolling. I'm guessing it will be at least a few weeks before the Fox Box shows up.

 

[Little Red]

If you're going to amp them, I'd suggest getting a coaxial version of your chosen front speakers. I personally can only hear my back speakers when I recline my seat. The only reason I'll be adding a pair of quality speakers in the back, is so when I open my back doors at a bonfire or when fishing off the tailgate, I have clean, clear sound. Other wise, I'd just put a pair of entry level (under $50 a pair) 6-1/2s in the back.

 

[baum]

i havent run rear fill ever. since the early 2000's i woudl only use the stock rear speakers off of deck power.

im a believer of simple systems i only use 1 4-channel amp, subs, and a set of components up front. i have had the exact same equipment since about 2002 and still plays like it did when i bought it. and its been in 5 different cars

 

[BradKnob]

Appreciate the heads up. Ya...all the audio theory is over my head. I try and do some reading over @ DIYMA, some pretty educated audiophiles over there. Seems like a few smart guys here too.



Excited to get the process rolling. I'm guessing it will be at least a few weeks before the Fox Box shows up.

DIYMA Will just make ur head spin and ur wallet go empty. A ton of knowledge over there, prob too much for most people. Lol

Basically what they're saying about the 3 way setup is that the passive xovers will send the whole frequency range to the mid and tweet. So if you add a 3" speaker, ur basically playing half the frequency range twice. Which in the audiophile world, is a no no. Only way around is to make sure the x-over doesn't receive mid frequencies, by maybe using settings on the amp to eliminate 400hz-3500hz (for example) and use the head unit to send those frequencies to the 3.5"s

But like most, I ditched the rear fill and never looked back.

 

[Cummins H.O.]

Ya I agree. A newbie, like myself, can get confused over there in no time at all. But on the flip side, you can learn a lot also.


That's kind of how I understood it, it would essentially overlapping the 6.5 woofer. If that makes sense.

So basically what you are saying is that you need a HU that has 3 way capability or a stand alone DSP, so you can get the correct frequencies for each of the 3 components.