Front end vibrations....

[muddy12]

Didn’t want to hijack the other thread any farther.
Truck info.
2012 1500 4x4 with 4” lift and 35x12.5’s, and around 85k miles.

I have a vibration that comes and goes, and feels like it’s in the front end someplace. At times it feels like an oscillation in the steering wheel, other times the truck just shakes.
The really strange part is that some days the truck is smooth as silk without even a hint of a vibration.

When it does shake, it’s typically between 50 and 60 MPH, and is noticeably worse when going through a gradual turn at those speeds.

So far, on the front end, I have replaced brake rotors, calipers, and pads, lower ball joints, and have had the tires balanced and alignment checked multiple times. I have also inspected(by myself and a shop) the upper ball joints, outer tie rod ends, and wheel bearings. All are, or at least appear good.

Was planning to pull the inner tie rod boots and check the joints this weekend, but don’t think I’ll find anything.

I was just watching a YouTube video about 3rd gen vibrations which now has me thinking I need to check the front dif mounts as well as the front drive and CV shafts.

Does anyone have any experience with elusive front end vibes on 4th gens? Really don’t want to just keep throwing parts at it.

Side note, those D60’s that I had set back for a Jeep build, are starting to look really tempting. LOL



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[Moparfanatic21]

Didn’t want to hijack the other thread any farther.
Truck info.
2012 1500 4x4 with 4” lift and 35x12.5’s, and around 85k miles.

I have a vibration that comes and goes, and feels like it’s in the front end someplace. At times it feels like an oscillation in the steering wheel, other times the truck just shakes.
The really strange part is that some days the truck is smooth as silk without even a hint of a vibration.

When it does shake, it’s typically between 50 and 60 MPH, and is noticeably worse when going through a gradual turn at those speeds.

So far, on the front end, I have replaced brake rotors, calipers, and pads, lower ball joints, and have had the tires balanced and alignment checked multiple times. I have also inspected(by myself and a shop) the upper ball joints, outer tie rod ends, and wheel bearings. All are, or at least appear good.

Was planning to pull the inner tie rod boots and check the joints this weekend, but don’t think I’ll find anything.

I was just watching a YouTube video about 3rd gen vibrations which now has me thinking I need to check the front dif mounts as well as the front drive and CV shafts.

Does anyone have any experience with elusive front end vibes on 4th gens? Really don’t want to just keep throwing parts at it.

Side note, those D60’s that I had set back for a Jeep build, are starting to look really tempting. LOL



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I never owned a IFS truck, so straight axle swap it . But I would almost bet a wheel bearing. Find a wide road that nobody goes on. When the vibration starts, turn hard one way. Whichever way you turn the opposite side is bad. Example if you turn hard right and it goes away its the left side. As the weight on the left side goes away.

 

[muddy12]

We have had a couple IFS 4x4’s as family vehicles in the past, but they never gave us any problems.
Every other vehicle I’ve had has been solid front axle. The list includes ‘82 Chevy K20, ‘99 Dodge Ram 1500, ‘93 Wrangler YJ, and ‘87 Grand Wagoneer.
All of those were super easy to diagnose and service.


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[muddy12]

I might have found the problem. On my way home from work today, the vibration got really bad for about 200 yards, then totally went away for the remainder of the drive home(about 20 miles).
With it shaking that badly, I decided to crawl under it again.
I found that the passenger side CV shaft has considerable play in it, where it connects to the intermediate shaft.
The really strange this is, when I checked it over a couple weeks ago, there was no play in that shaft. Well, none that I could detect anyway.


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[muddy12]

Question for anyone that’s had to deal with CV’s on a 4th gen before.
1: What is the likelihood that the intermediate shaft is also toast?
2: Is it true that on 12+models, the intermediate shaft can not be replaced? I’m finding conflicting info on this, and some sources indicate that an entire front dif housing will need to be bought.



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[wgreggking]

I don't about your cause of the vibe, but looked at rock auto, 2012 , CV half shafts , L R and intermediate shafts are listed.I would jack it up and do a full inspection of the hubs/ bearing assy., shafts,CV's ball joints, tie rods etc. maybe someone else with more direct experience can help?

 

[muddy12]

I don't about your cause of the vibe, but looked at rock auto, 2012 , CV half shafts , L R and intermediate shafts are listed.I would jack it up and do a full inspection of the hubs/ bearing assy., shafts,CV's ball joints, tie rods etc. maybe someone else with more direct experience can help?

That’s where the confusion is coming from. I can find the shaft available from multiple sources. However, I have also found several threads on forums where owners of 2012 and up trucks have stated that the intermediate shafts were not replaceable.

I’ve been trying to track down this vibration for what seems like an eternity. Almost weekly for the last several months, I have been inspecting the front end. Last inspection was last week, and at that time, there was no detectable play in the shaft.

I suspect the shaft has been the cause of the vibration all along. Current theory is that it was worn enough to be slightly out of balance, but wasn’t worn enough to be noticeable while not moving, until now.


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[muddy12]

Really starting to get pi$$3d off with this truck!!

So, I went ahead and ordered a new CV shaft. Even though I knew better, I only ordered 1, because the last time I checked the front end, which was less than a week ago, the drivers side did not have any play/detectable wear in it. Looked everything over again last night, and the driver side now has play.

To make things worse, I have been doing more research, and in almost all cases I have found, when the CV shaft wears like mine is doing, it also takes out the stub/intermediate shafts.

In my search for intermediate shafts, it appears that only the drivers side intermediate shaft is replaceable.
In order to replace the passenger side intermediate shaft, on 2012 and up 1500's, the entire front dif housing needs to be replaced. (can anyone on here with first hand experience confirm or deny my findings please?)

The truck is just about paid off, just hit 80K miles, and other than ball joints and brakes, has been trouble free. If I really do have to replace the whole front dif, I may just sell the damn thing. Don't get me wrong, I'm totally capable of changing the dif if needed, it's just the principal of the issue. I've had many vehicles over the years that have gone well past 100K miles without issue. I had an 82 K20 that went 300K+ miles on the stock axles without issue, and it was wheeled and worked on a regular basis. In comparison, I baby my ram, and I feel like it's ridiculous for the dif/axle to need replaced at 80K miles.

sorry for the rant, I'm just frustrated.

 

[muddy12]

I may have come up with a plan, at least for the short term, until I can source a replacement front dif housing.

CV’s and most likely intermediate shafts are shot.
So I’m thinking I could pull the CV shafts, and disassemble them. Then reinstall the wheel end of the shaft, just to hold the wheel bearing together.

Thinking this will at least keep the truck driveable and not wobbling, so that if needed, I could still drive it.

Thoughts?


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[muddy12]

How's that old saying go? Oh yeah, "When it rains, it ####ing pours!"

Here's just a bit of an update, and a little ranting.

One of the new CV shafts arrived last night, so I decided to start pulling the front end apart. I got both shafts pulled, and tested the differential end of the new shaft on the intermediate shafts. As I suspected, they are worn as well which allowed the end of the new shaft to wobble. Since only the driver side intermediate shaft is replaceable, I'm going to continue looking into options for replacing the entire front dif assembly.

I brought the old shafts to work with me today, and I'm going to put them in the lathe and cut down the wheel end to use as a stub shaft to hold the wheel bearings together (may not be necessary, but I figure it's better safe than sorry) so I can still drive the truck without the cv shafts installed.

Now for the rant part.
I guess I should have done more research before deciding I was ok with a 1500 ram. Even though I don't tow or haul enough to justify the higher purchase price and increased fuel cost of a 2500, I should have gone with my gut and just bought the 2500 that I looked at before I bought this 1500.
I did not realize that the 1500's front dif is attached via the motor mounts, and is basically an extension of the engine. The CV shaft vibration was basically causing the entire drive train (front dif, engine, trans, and T-case) to shake. I think that's why the vibration was so inconsistent. The conditions had to be just right for the vibration to start, but once it did, everything started shaking.

While under the truck last night, I noticed that the motor/dif mounts have become very soft, and that the steering rack has now developed a substantial leak. I suspect these new issues are due, at least in part, from all the shaking.

I'm not sure what my long term solution will be. My options seem to be,
from cheapest to most expensive
1: throw new CV shafts in it and sell it. (maybe I could find an older higher mileage 2500 that I could afford)
2: take a gamble on a used front dif as a replacement.
3: Do a solid axle swap.
4: purchase a new front dif.

By my rough calculations, #3 and #4 would be really close in price only because I already have axles(they would just need a little TLC). The problem though, is they are older axles, and have no provisions for speed sensors.

 

[muddy12]

Got the old CV shafts apart. Hopefully the rain will hold off and I can get these put in, and the wheels back on tonight.

Interesting side note; the inner and outer joints on both shafts still looked practically brand new on the inside, and were full of grease. The inner spline joint(intermediate shafts at the dif housing) is where all of the wear and problems are.
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[muddy12]

Well, I'm about to start pulling my hair out. LOL.
I got the stub shafts reinstalled, and went for a drive.
Vibration seemed to be a little less, but was still there. However, with how random the vibration has been up to this point, I can't say with any certainty, if removing the shafts made any real difference.
I'm at a point now where I really don't want to, and can't really afford to just keep throwing parts and $$ at it.
If anyone has any suggestions, I'm all ears.

 

[muddy12]

I’ll admit, this probably should have been my first step, but I picked up a cheap “go-pro-ish” camera on the way home tonight. Going to see if I can fashion a mount, and try to get some video of the vibration. Fingers crossed that this will allow me to locate the cause of the vibration.


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[madtrucker2016]

Well, I'm about to start pulling my hair out. LOL.
I got the stub shafts reinstalled, and went for a drive.
Vibration seemed to be a little less, but was still there. However, with how random the vibration has been up to this point, I can't say with any certainty, if removing the shafts made any real difference.
I'm at a point now where I really don't want to, and can't really afford to just keep throwing parts and $$ at it.
If anyone has any suggestions, I'm all ears.

have you looked at the tranny mount for wear

 

[muddy12]

Trans mount looks to be fine. Rubber is intact, and it takes a decent amount of pushing on the T-case, to get any movement.

Still working on getting video to analyze, but I think I have a game plan worked out.

Im going to “cost effectively” replace a few more of the components on the front end, and then reassess the situation.
Going to replace the following;
Upper control arms and ball joints. (They appear good, but are still original, so I figure replacing them can’t hurt)

Steering rack & pinion. (It has started leaking, I’m assuming from all the shaking, and leaks bother me)

Inner and outer tie rods. (New rack comes with inner tie rods, and the outers are cheap)

CV shafts. (Weather they were contributing to the vibration or not, they need replaced)

I can get decent quality (OE or slightly better, but not top of the line) parts for all of this, for right around $350(+- depending on shipping).

If replacing these parts fixes it, I’ll probably keep it a while longer. I really do like everything else about the truck, just not the IFS.
If these parts don’t fix it, then I’m trading it in.


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[Moparfanatic21]

Trans mount looks to be fine. Rubber is intact, and it takes a decent amount of pushing on the T-case, to get any movement.

Still working on getting video to analyze, but I think I have a game plan worked out.

Im going to “cost effectively” replace a few more of the components on the front end, and then reassess the situation.
Going to replace the following;
Upper control arms and ball joints. (They appear good, but are still original, so I figure replacing them can’t hurt)

Steering rack & pinion. (It has started leaking, I’m assuming from all the shaking, and leaks bother me)

Inner and outer tie rods. (New rack comes with inner tie rods, and the outers are cheap)

CV shafts. (Weather they were contributing to the vibration or not, they need replaced)

I can get decent quality (OE or slightly better, but not top of the line) parts for all of this, for right around $350(+- depending on shipping).

If replacing these parts fixes it, I’ll probably keep it a while longer. I really do like everything else about the truck, just not the IFS.
If these parts don’t fix it, then I’m trading it in.


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Sorry I just saw you're replies to this thread. Getting a video will help as I did that when I got death wobble and it helped find the part that was causing it. I haven't worked on a 1500 IFS in a while and that was my Dads 06 and they are different from the 12s.

The intermediate shaft not being able to be replaced sounds very odd as it should just be a piece of axle that connects the CV to the diff. I sold all my 1500 Service books I got while working at the dealership. If you want PM your VIN and I'll call a few buddies that might be able to help find it.

As for the vibration can you try and describe it better? I know on my one 2500 I could move the transfer case by hand until I put a Jack under it and the rubber separated but it looked good.

 

[muddy12]

@Moparfanatic21
The passenger side intermediate shaft is two pieces (3 if you include the locking collar). It looks to be assembled in such a way, that the dif housing has to be disassembled in order to remove the shaft pieces.
Here’s a link to an exploded view of a 12+ dif.

https://parts.allmoparparts.com/aut...nt-suspension-cat/front-axle-and-carrier-scat


As far as describing the vibration, I’ll try.
Typically only happens between 50 and 60 MPH, but is totally random, if that makes sense.
Some days I can drive to work(about 25 miles with a couple stop signs) and it will be completely smooth the whole trip. Then the next day it might shake the first time I get up to 55 mph, shake for 1/4 mile, then go away. Then the next day it might shake all the way home.

When it does shake, it’s like the whole truck is oscillating side to side (my phone mount on the dash goes crazy) and the steering wheel will “twitch” left and right. BUT, while it’s doing this, I can take my hands off the wheel and the truck continues straight as an arrow.

It does seem to be coming more from the front than the rear, but it’s hard to tell really.

 

[Moparfanatic21]

@Moparfanatic21
The passenger side intermediate shaft is two pieces (3 if you include the locking collar). It looks to be assembled in such a way, that the dif housing has to be disassembled in order to remove the shaft pieces.
Here’s a link to an exploded view of a 12+ dif.

https://parts.allmoparparts.com/aut...nt-suspension-cat/front-axle-and-carrier-scat


As far as describing the vibration, I’ll try.
Typically only happens between 50 and 60 MPH, but is totally random, if that makes sense.
Some days I can drive to work(about 25 miles with a couple stop signs) and it will be completely smooth the whole trip. Then the next day it might shake the first time I get up to 55 mph, shake for 1/4 mile, then go away. Then the next day it might shake all the way home.

When it does shake, it’s like the whole truck is oscillating side to side (my phone mount on the dash goes crazy) and the steering wheel will “twitch” left and right. BUT, while it’s doing this, I can take my hands off the wheel and the truck continues straight as an arrow.

It does seem to be coming more from the front than the rear, but it’s hard to tell really.

That's setup just like an CAD vehicle (same designed used since 94 Rams). At that speed the torque converter locks up directly connecting the trans to the motor. Are you sure it's not a misfire

 

[muddy12]

That's setup just like an CAD vehicle (same designed used since 94 Rams). At that speed the torque converter locks up directly connecting the trans to the motor. Are you sure it's not a misfire

Do you know if the torque converter on the 6 speeds locks up in 5th gear? My truck doesn’t shift into 6th until 65mph.

If I run up to 65, let it shift into 6th, then back down to 60mph(where I assume the TC is locked),it doesn’t shake.

Would a misfire trip the CEL?



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[Moparfanatic21]

Do you know if the torque converter on the 6 speeds locks up in 5th gear? My truck doesn’t shift into 6th until 65mph.

If I run up to 65, let it shift into 6th, then back down to 60mph(where I assume the TC is locked),it doesn’t shake.

Would a misfire trip the CEL?



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Im a little rusty on the 6spds I assume it would lock up. A clear easy way to tell is you should see a small RPM drop when the TC locks up.

A misfire should trip a code but sometimes it doesn't. Another thing I would check is tire balance. How ment miles on the truck abs when food it last get plugs?