Full time 4x4 vs part time 4x4

[powrsurg]

I'm not super familiar with jeeps but doesn't the Rubicon come with front and rear diff lockers as well?

I would LOVE to be able to put in at least a rear locker. I have the oem lsd but there is nothing like a selectable locker. No one makes them for the zf diffs [emoji25] .

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Yes, and even better they were electronic. Almost always they are air lockers and need a compressor. I know jeeps climb and pick ups pull but I was really hoping my ram would.perform without slipping when it really matters.

 

[wsutard1]

Wow, just read this whole thread and I am more confused than where I got here. I think people are saying different things but pointing to the same thing.

L ove me some 4 auto in the wet.

Who is actually doing things in their truck where the "strength" of the transfer case actually matters? Raise your hand.

 

[madpuma13]

Wow, just read this whole thread and I am more confused than where I got here. I think people are saying different things but pointing to the same thing.

L ove me some 4 auto in the wet.

Who is actually doing things in their truck where the "strength" of the transfer case actually matters? Raise your hand.

It's not so much the strength of the transfer case that causes issues, it's the clutches and when/how they engage.

You're right in that most people will never even have a problem with the "auto"transfer case. But if you get caught in a bad situation like getting stuck in mud or sand then with the way the clutch engages and disengages, you could actually burn out the clutches.

Well I don't take it off road, you say. Same thing applies to snow and ice which can be an everyday on the road occurrence in some places during winter.

For what it is, a system that will provide extra traction on the road, it's great. But most people see they have 4x4 and expect more. The manufacture is just fine letting people believe they have the capability even though they don't.

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[powrsurg]

Great reply Madpuma. I would also add that why get a 4x4 pickup truck where if **** hits the fan it won't perform.

 

[wsutard1]

Great reply Madpuma. I would also add that why get a 4x4 pickup truck where if **** hits the fan it won't perform.

Im not sure that they wont perform. They probably will perform exactly like they should. The probably will also perform that way for a long time to come. Its not like Ram is new to making trucks. They know what they are doing. I am willing to bet that the "stories" of failed clutches in the transfer case are from extreme conditions in which our trucks weren't meant to be in the first place.

Also, clutches are nothing new to vehicles and have worked as intended for a very long time.

I don't think I can be convinced that they whole issue isn't overblown. (no I'm not saying you need to convince me)

 

[6.7CumminsDrvr]

Who is actually doing things in their truck where the "strength" of the transfer case actually matters? Raise your hand.

I don't know that I am doing anything that test the strength of the case per say but I did overheat it and get the "reduced performance" warning. All I was doing was tooling around with the wife and kids on the Eglin Reservation.......clutches couldn't handle the soft sand. I have been out exploring this place more times than I can count and the terrain is not hard at all but because of the way the 44-44 operates, I almost got stuck in a spot where there should have been ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEM!!!!!

Just a bit disappointing........

 

[chesafreak]

I don't know that I am doing anything that test the strength of the case per say but I did overheat it and get the "reduced performance" warning. All I was doing was tooling around with the wife and kids on the Eglin Reservation.......clutches couldn't handle the soft sand. I have been out exploring this place more times than I can count and the terrain is not hard at all but because of the way the 44-44 operates, I almost got stuck in a spot where there should have been ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEM!!!!!

Just a bit disappointing........

Thanks for the real world experience. I wouldnt have been to worried about it but you got me questioning it. Im waiting on my 16 sport to get here. We drive on the beach and will be really disappointed if we hit a little soft stuff and it reduces performance cause of clutches slipping. Guess I just hope i wont lose to much money if I need to get a Power Wagon within a year. ha

 

[powrsurg]

Im not sure that they wont perform. They probably will perform exactly like they should. The probably will also perform that way for a long time to come. Its not like Ram is new to making trucks. They know what they are doing. I am willing to bet that the "stories" of failed clutches in the transfer case are from extreme conditions in which our trucks weren't meant to be in the first place.

Also, clutches are nothing new to vehicles and have worked as intended for a very long time.

I don't think I can be convinced that they whole issue isn't overblown. (no I'm not saying you need to convince me)

My definition of when **** hits the fan is probably different from yours then. Lol you don't have to worry about a slipper clutch burning out if you don't have them.

 

[GP4L]

The part time transfer case is MUCH better for off roading. The full time transfer case (with 4 Auto) doesn't mechanically lock the front and rear wheels together even in 4 low, it uses a clutch.

Check this thread out: http://www.ramforum.com/f38/4x4_problem_ram_2013_8-speed-40753/

Lots of people have had problems with the full time transfer case, Borg Warner 44-44. The part time transfer case, Borg Warner 44-45 is what you want to get. Unfortunately you are stuck with the full time tcase in the higher end models.

Lots of people are *complaining* about their transfer cases. Mostly because they have no idea how it works, and they're asking their trucks to do something they weren't meant to do - or they're missing other components that make it possible (i.e. the right tires). Only a few are actually experiencing failure, just like any other t-case would (likely because they are abusive drivers, that are in denial about being an abusive driver).

So after reading through that thread am I reading it right that the Sport comes with that ****** 4wd system ? Or is it a option on it ?

The Sport comes with the 44-44. And it's perfect for what the truck is designed to be used for. I've had mine a while, and Chicago road conditions suck frequently, especially early in the morning (when I do the most of my driving), and my truck's only shortcoming is the junk Goodyear tires.

Confused...is the 2016 Ram Sport 4wd crew part time or full time?

None of the newer Rams have a "full time" transfer case. The 44-44 is a "part-time, on-demand transfer case."

4 auto and 4 lock are the same thing. The clutch system prevents it from actually locking.

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They are not the same. (still waiting on some more technical questions to be answered before I update my post in the other massive thread about the 44-44) Per Borg Warner engineers - Auto mode is a softer, progressive, engagement of sending engine torque to the front axle, once the extra traction is needed. Lock is an near instant, full engagement of sending engine torque to the front axle, once the extra traction is needed. The transfer case's clutch is activated close to instantly upon wheel slip detection, with any amount of torque being demanded above/off idle. This means to get the front wheels to engage in any 4wd mode, you have to give it some throttle input, and then experience rear tire slip. Also, *at this time* there is no way to reprogram the TCM for 8-speed's (which would include the on-demand transfer case (44-44)). I'm bothering the hell out Diablo about this matter. I suggest all of you do the same - email their customer service and request software to enable TCM tuning on your 8-speed Ram.

Guys I'm an idiot. I just needed to think back to my Rubicon. Man I screwed up. I went with the bighorn and ended up with an inferior setup. The bighorn,sport, and Laramie all have the center different /clutch. Under extreme situations in 4wheel lock it will still slip. I'm not taking this truck rock crawling like I did the jeep but it would have been nice to know that I had the same functionality. Dammit. Something told me to get the outdoorsman.

If you're not plowing snow, or doing extreme off-roading (including rock crawling) your truck's 44-44 will be fine. Remember, take everything on forums with a grain/block of salt. Many technical debates on forums eventually turn into a **** measuring contest, and about 99% of the info isn't 100% accurate.... Including what I'm saying in this post.

Unfortunately, that is not the case. Even in 4hi and 4 low the "auto" transfer case requires the rear wheels to slip before engaging the front.

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True, but first you must be applying throttle.

Wow, just read this whole thread and I am more confused than where I got here. I think people are saying different things but pointing to the same thing.

L ove me some 4 auto in the wet.

Who is actually doing things in their truck where the "strength" of the transfer case actually matters? Raise your hand.

Great question to ask. And the owners manual says what the truck can, and can not do... So, in reality, it's just a ***** fest... I really have nothing negative to say about my truck. It's doing its job as expected. And IF i have a premature t-case failure.... #warranty

 

[madpuma13]

Gp4l, good info.

I would ask exactly how the system makes the engagement harder or softer.

We put a friend's truck on snow/ice and tied it in place to a tree just to see what the fuss was about.

It took a perceptible amount of time (half second maybe, point is it was instant) for both auto and lock.

We did see that the throttle needed to be engaged in order to activate because in low both the rears spun but the front never engaged until the throttle was put on (still about half a second), as you suggested above.

Obviously, this isn't a scenario the truck is likely to see often, only when you are stuck. As long as you keep on the throttle and don't let off so the system doesn't engage then reengage over and over, you would never have an issue.



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[Hemi395]

Lots of people are *complaining* about their transfer cases. Mostly because they have no idea how it works, and they're asking their trucks to do something they weren't meant to do - or they're missing other components that make it possible (i.e. the right tires). Only a few are actually experiencing failure, just like any other t-case would (likely because they are abusive drivers, that are in denial about being an abusive driver).



The Sport comes with the 44-44. And it's perfect for what the truck is designed to be used for. I've had mine a while, and Chicago road conditions suck frequently, especially early in the morning (when I do the most of my driving), and my truck's only shortcoming is the junk Goodyear tires.



None of the newer Rams have a "full time" transfer case. The 44-44 is a "part-time, on-demand transfer case."



They are not the same. (still waiting on some more technical questions to be answered before I update my post in the other massive thread about the 44-44) Per Borg Warner engineers - Auto mode is a softer, progressive, engagement of sending engine torque to the front axle, once the extra traction is needed. Lock is an near instant, full engagement of sending engine torque to the front axle, once the extra traction is needed. The transfer case's clutch is activated close to instantly upon wheel slip detection, with any amount of torque being demanded above/off idle. This means to get the front wheels to engage in any 4wd mode, you have to give it some throttle input, and then experience rear tire slip. Also, *at this time* there is no way to reprogram the TCM for 8-speed's (which would include the on-demand transfer case (44-44)). I'm bothering the hell out Diablo about this matter. I suggest all of you do the same - email their customer service and request software to enable TCM tuning on your 8-speed Ram.



If you're not plowing snow, or doing extreme off-roading (including rock crawling) your truck's 44-44 will be fine. Remember, take everything on forums with a grain/block of salt. Many technical debates on forums eventually turn into a **** measuring contest, and about 99% of the info isn't 100% accurate.... Including what I'm saying in this post.



True, but first you must be applying throttle.



Great question to ask. And the owners manual says what the truck can, and can not do... So, in reality, it's just a ***** fest... I really have nothing negative to say about my truck. It's doing its job as expected. And IF i have a premature t-case failure.... #warranty

So what you're saying is getting unstuck from deep snow is abusive? Might be considered abusive for a CRV or an awd minivan, but a full size 4x4 truck? Ask loveracing1988 about getting stuck in snow. Or ask Iamcanadian about his 44-44 failure. Sounds like a good reason to complain and for others with the same tcase to be concerned.

I agree, the Goodyear SRA's are pieces of ****. Best thing I ever did for my truck was toss those away.

My 44-44 has SO FAR been ok. I have said this in other threads.

The point here is the 44-45 is a better tcase if you are doing any off roading at all or encountering deep snow often.

 

[GP4L]

Gp4l, good info.

I would ask exactly how the system makes the engagement harder or softer.

We put a friend's truck on snow/ice and tied it in place to a tree just to see what the fuss was about.

It took a perceptible amount of time (half second maybe, point is it was instant) for both auto and lock.

We did see that the throttle needed to be engaged in order to activate because in low both the rears spun but the front never engaged until the throttle was put on (still about half a second), as you suggested above.

Obviously, this isn't a scenario the truck is likely to see often, only when you are stuck. As long as you keep on the throttle and don't let off so the system doesn't engage then reengage over and over, you would never have an issue.



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The clutch pack between the front axle and the t-case is magnetically controlled. Varying the intensity going to the magnet varies how hard/soft the clutch packs are being squeezed together. I'd say 1/2 second is believable in the scenario you setup for the truck. Now do the same test without the rope, and tell me if you think it's unacceptable

 

[GP4L]

So what you're saying is getting unstuck from deep snow is abusive? Might be considered abusive for a CRV or an awd minivan, but a full size 4x4 truck? Ask loveracing1988 about getting stuck in snow. Or ask Iamcanadian about his 44-44 failure. Sounds like a good reason to complain and for others with the same tcase to be concerned.

I agree, the Goodyear SRA's are pieces of ****. Best thing I ever did for my truck was toss those away.

My 44-44 has SO FAR been ok. I have said this in other threads.

The point here is the 44-45 is a better tcase if you are doing any off roading at all or encountering deep snow often.

I didn't call anybody out by name. And Loveracing1988 and I have bantered back and fourth a couple of times, I know what his gripes are. Admittedly, it's very difficult to sensibly make an apples to apples argument here, because most of us don't actually know one another, how we drive, location, road/weather conditions, ect..

But I can throw the question right back at you - what you're saying is the MY truck is somehow special, because I have had no issues driving through 1-2 feet of powdery-slushy-icy snow? On multiple occasions... Maybe it's because I'm not driving miles upon miles through it? It's isolated to 50-100 yard sections of snow drift. And also experiencing no issues on ice patches on the road.. I don't know. However, I do know, I'd love to see how some of these people that "got stuck" or "broke their 44-44" drive their truck.

Not that I really want to keep debating this... But maybe (with all due respect) it's the indian and not the arrow? Or maybe it is actually the wrong arrow - still chosen by the indian.

 

[Hemi395]

I didn't call anybody out by name. And Loveracing1988 and I have bantered back and fourth a couple of times, I know what his gripes are. Admittedly, it's very difficult to sensibly make an apples to apples argument here, because most of us don't actually know one another, how we drive, location, road/weather conditions, ect..

But I can throw the question right back at you - what you're saying is the MY truck is somehow special, because I have had no issues driving through 1-2 feet of powdery-slushy-icy snow? On multiple occasions... Maybe it's because I'm not driving miles upon miles through it? It's isolated to 50-100 yard sections of snow drift. And also experiencing no issues on ice patches on the road.. I don't know. However, I do know, I'd love to see how some of these people that "got stuck" or "broke their 44-44" drive their truck.

Not that I really want to keep debating this... But maybe (with all due respect) it's the indian and not the arrow? Or maybe it is actually the wrong arrow - still chosen by the indian.

This is an excellent point and it's one I didn't really consider so I appologize. We don't have any idea how we all are driving. When I have driven it in snow in 4Lock I feathered the throttle so the tcase engages a little softer. Maybe it helps, maybe it doesnt, but it seems to me that it would be easier on the clutch.

 

[madpuma13]

The clutch pack between the front axle and the t-case is magnetically controlled. Varying the intensity going to the magnet varies how hard/soft the clutch packs are being squeezed together. I'd say 1/2 second is believable in the scenario you setup for the truck. Now do the same test without the rope, and tell me if you think it's unacceptable

Well that's my point. The "auto" transfer case excels at supplying that little bit of needed traction where a part time 4x4 can't. Like on wet roads or patchy snow/ice roads. It provides assistance in dirt/gravel just like the part time transfer case.

The part time transfer case excels in off road situations and situations where you will need to let off the throttle repetitively. Like being in mud/slippery snow/ice/sand or trying to get out from being stuck in any of those situations.

They excel at different things. Just like how you can break the "auto" case parts when stuck, you can break parts in the part time case if used on pavement.

You need to select the right system for you and know when/how to use these systems to your advantage and not break them. However, it is hard to do that when no information about them is provided before you buy the truck.

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[danmp]

A friend got a 2012 sport ram with the auto 4wd, and I have a 2014 sxt with 4lock only , And we park at the same spot in about 1 feet of wet snow. We have the same tire, and his tire is less worn out than mine. He get stuck and not me.

Some of his tire was not spinning all the time, It seem to work as a open diff on front.

 

[wsutard1]

A friend got a 2012 sport ram with the auto 4wd, and I have a 2014 sxt with 4lock only , And we park at the same spot in about 1 feet of wet snow. We have the same tire, and his tire is less worn out than mine. He get stuck and not me.

Some of his tire was not spinning all the time, It seem to work as a open diff on front.

Getting your self out of snow is 50% traction, 50% technique. Someone with the best setup possible could still get stuck because they don't know how to drive in/get out of snow.

As GP4L said, maybe its the Native American and not the arrow. Could be the arrow, but also the Native American. We will never know.

 

[powrsurg]

When I sold my rock crawler I wanted to know my next 48k injection into the economy was going to get me the same cability as my old rubicon. I could have ordered the outdoorsman and I would have had the comfort in knowing if I ever wanted to go back to my stomping grounds that I could. Most people would never dream of doing to their trucks what I did with my jeep. So while I agree with all you have stated, I was not prepared to say good bye to that portion of my life.

 

[wsutard1]

When I sold my rock crawler I wanted to know my next 48k injection into the economy was going to get me the same cability as my old rubicon. I could have ordered the outdoorsman and I would have had the comfort in knowing if I ever wanted to go back to my stomping grounds that I could. Most people would never dream of doing to their trucks what I did with my jeep. So while I agree with all you have stated, I was not prepared to say good bye to that portion of my life.

That does suck. Not sure if it will work but what about a trade? Maybe post on here or CL?

 

[roadshow]

I'm a little confused here. I've heard people in other threads about this say that ALL Ram's are going to be the full time rather than the part time transfer case but a couple people in this thread are saying it's only certain trims? Which is it? I want the part time, no "auto" mode, I prefer to control it myself and the transfer cases with "auto" don't actually lock when the knob is in "4wd lock. I'll be wanting my next RAM to be the same or I'll be hanging onto the one I have as long as possible. This isn't a "**** measuring" thing like GP4L said above, it's how I prefer my 4wd even if I'm not off-roading. I live in a snowbelt in winter, my night vision sucks, and both directions of my winter commute to work are on a dark ****** country highway. So I don't want "awd" I want to put my truck in 4wd lock and know it's actually IN 4wd lock not "knob says 4wd lock but just kidding not really"